Official Giants @ Pats postgame thread

[Deus Irae]

Yeah. They're losing by one score in games where Brady plays horrendously (at least statistically, because his actual play wasn't bad against Buffalo). That means that it's a very winnable game if he only throws 3 picks instead of 4 or 1 instead of 2 and a fumble. This isn't like it has been, where he had to throw for 400 yards and 3 TDs with no turnovers for them to have a chance.

For crying out loud... It "isn't like it has been" because teams have changed their approach to the games. The scores are closer because teams aren't trying to get into shootouts. The Steelers beat the hell out of the Patriots. They just did it in a way that kept the score low and the ball out of the Patriots hands.

In other words, the Patriots have been the victims of the same basic game plan that they used to employ back in the SB winning years. Scores make the games seem closer than they really are.

 

[ATippett56]

Yeah. They're losing by one score in games where Brady plays horrendously (at least statistically, because his actual play wasn't bad against Buffalo). That means that it's a very winnable game if he only throws 3 picks instead of 4 or 1 instead of 2 and a fumble. This isn't like it has been, where he had to throw for 400 yards and 3 TDs with no turnovers for them to have a chance.

Maybe the New England Patriots defense should try to be perfect and pitch a shutout once in a while instead of Tom Brady week in and week out.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

that argument would work if we did not see them do the same thing vs the bills they had Mayo Fletcher and bodden and still give up 80+ yards in under a min

You know who was missing that game? Pat Chung
You know who was in his place? Sergio Brown
You know who gave up the 31 yard PI call in the end zone to put the ball at the 1? Yup, Sergio Brown

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

You know who was missing that game? Pat Chung
You know who was in his place? Sergio Brown
You know who gave up the 31 yard PI call in the end zone to put the ball at the 1? Yup, Sergio Brown

then that ones on BB for keeping Sergio Brown over sanders or meriweather

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

You know who was missing that game? Pat Chung
You know who was in his place? Sergio Brown
You know who gave up the 31 yard PI call in the end zone to put the ball at the 1? Yup, Sergio Brown

Whose fault is it that the New England Patriots talent at safety has hit rock bottom?

 

[BKBroiler]

If it wasn't for Tom Brady, the New England Patriots would be dueling the Indianapolis Colts for the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

This statement is a complete joke and reaffirms that people love to overreact. Two of the team's three losses have been by 3pts and 4pts. Don't forget that Brady turned the ball over himself 4 and 3 times respectively in those games. If the team can still be competitive in a game despite that many turnovers by its star QB, then its fairly obvious that they wouldn't be down around the 0-8, 1-7, or 2-6 mark. Looking back, the only game that the team may have lost that they won if Hoyer started was the Dallas game, but don't forget that Brady had some awful plays despite being clutch at the end.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

then that ones on BB for keeping Sergio Brown over sanders or meriweather

This New England Patriots defense has less talent than the 2002 version.

 

[ATippett56]

Looking back, the only game that the team may have lost that they won if Hoyer started was the Dallas game, but don't forget that Brady had some awful plays despite being clutch at the end.

What has Hoyer done to affirm his lofty status as a starting quarterback in the NFL?

 

[Sciz]

Maybe the New England Patriots defense should try to be perfect and pitch a shutout once in a while instead of Tom Brady week in and week out.

The defense doesn't need to be anywhere near perfect. It just has to put the Pats in a position to win. When the offense turns the ball over 3 times in a game, including a TD (directly in the Bills game, plus today's 9-yard drive leading to a TD after a turnover) and it's still a 1-score game, that says a lot about the defense. I don't want a shutout. I want the offense to turn the ball over one less time and keep a score off the board. Had they done that, they'd be 7-1 right now.

 

[Deus Irae]

This statement is a complete joke and reaffirms that people love to overreact. Two of the team's three losses have been by 3pts and 4pts. Don't forget that Brady turned the ball over himself 4 and 3 times respectively in those games. If the team can still be competitive in a game despite that many turnovers by its star QB, then its fairly obvious that they wouldn't be down around the 0-8, 1-7, or 2-6 mark. Looking back, the only game that the team may have lost that they won if Hoyer started was the Dallas game, but don't forget that Brady had some awful plays despite being clutch at the end.

You're claims are every bit the overreaction that those you are railing against seem to be to you. Hoyer has done nothing to prove that he can beat any NFL team, so nobody really has any idea what would happen if Brady went down. Is Hoyer Curtis Painter or Matt Cassel? That's a question we won't know unless and until the worst has happened.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

Whose fault is it that the New England Patriots talent at safety has hit rock bottom?

Hard to place the blame there. Just about every poster here projected either Sanders or Meriweather as a starter this season. Belichick probably too. So what is he supposed to do when both have regressed and are no longer quality NFL safeties? It was an error of projection, but how often do two of your 3 "starting-quality" safeties regress to not starting quality in the same offseason? And he tried just about everything, bringing in Sharper and Renaldo Hill for workouts, trying to sign Dashon Goldson, and I'm guessing calling around for some trade options, considering that the report late in training camp was that he was "desperate" for a free safety. Can't have a solution to a problem you didn't see coming when there's nobody available to fill the void.

 

[BKBroiler]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

then that ones on BB for keeping Sergio Brown over sanders or meriweather

People need to forget about Merriweather and Sanders. Neither has done a thing with their new teams, so its not like they would even be upgrades here.

The issue is that the coaching staff / FO decided to not try to upgrade the safety position like they did with OG prior to the season starting. With the OG's, the team realized the issue and signed Waters prior to the season starting to help improve the OL. However, with the safeties they must have thought Brown and Barrett showed enough and decided to not look for a depth addition, which was an absolute misstep. I would not be surprised if they tried to bring in a veteran role player to replace one of the two because the pass coverage is significantly worst when either Chung or Ihedigbo are out of the game.

 

[ATippett56]

The defense doesn't need to be anywhere near perfect. It just has to put the Pats in a position to win.

The New England Patriots defense was put in the position to win against the New York Giants. The New England Patriots offense scored the go ahead touchdown with less than two minutes in the game. So much for the "vaunted" red zone defense of the New England Patriots. Where was the pass rush in the last two minutes of the game? How about the boneheaded plays by the New England Patriots defense in the last two minutes of the game?

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

This New England Patriots defense has less talent than the 2002 version.

the 21th ranked offense they played with that year did not help that defense out very much + they were still 11th vs the pass

 

[Sciz]

The New England Patriots defense was put in the position to win against the New York Giants. The New England Patriots offense scored the go ahead touchdown with less than two minutes in the game. So much for the "vaunted" red zone defense of the New England Patriots. Where was the pass rush in the last two minutes of the game? How about the boneheaded plays by the New England Patriots defense in the last two minutes of the game?

If you want to base your opinion of the defense on three blown plays by Tracy White and Sergio Brown, feel free. The offense's struggles is what even made that last drive matter.

 

[BKBroiler]

You're claims are every bit the overreaction that those you are railing against seem to be to you. Hoyer has done nothing to prove that he can beat any NFL team, so nobody really has any idea what would happen if Brady went down. Is Hoyer Curtis Painter or Matt Cassel? That's a question we won't know unless and until the worst has happened.

How am I overreacting to games that happened over the past 8 weeks? Despite horrible performances by Brady in two games, the team was still competitive in both. That is a big difference from the Colts, Rams, and Dolphins who have completely rolled over in most games on both sides of the ball. If Hoyer played like an average QB, the team would not be too far off from where they are now and would certainly not be in the "Andrew Luck" sweepstakes as the previous poster noted.

Oh and Curtis Painter is the least of the Colts problems this year. Maybe if you paid attention you'd realize that the Colts are so bad because their defense is a joke, their offensive line is a turnstile, and they have no running game.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

Hard to place the blame there. Just about every poster here projected either Sanders or Meriweather as a starter this season. Belichick probably too. So what is he supposed to do when both have regressed and are no longer quality NFL safeties? It was an error of projection, but how often do two of your 3 "starting-quality" safeties regress to not starting quality in the same offseason? And he tried just about everything, bringing in Sharper and Renaldo Hill for workouts, trying to sign Dashon Goldson, and I'm guessing calling around for some trade options, considering that the report late in training camp was that he was "desperate" for a free safety. Can't have a solution to a problem you didn't see coming when there's nobody available to fill the void.

Instead of spending all that money on an over-the-hill wide receiver Chad Ochostinko, the free agency spending should have been allocated on safeties not over-hyped wide receiver(s). The New England Patriots deficiencies last season were on defense not offense. How does trading a third and a fourth round draft picks in 2011 for a second round draft pick in 2012 help the New England Patriots defense in 2011?

 

[Deus Irae]

How am I overreacting to games that happened over the past 8 weeks? Despite horrible performances by Brady in two games, the team was still competitive in both. That is a big difference from the Colts, Rams, and Dolphins who have completely rolled over in most games on both sides of the ball. If Hoyer played like an average QB, the team would not be too far off from where they are now and would certainly not be in the "Andrew Luck" sweepstakes as the previous poster noted.

Oh and Curtis Painter is the least of the Colts problems this year. Maybe if you paid attention you'd realize that the Colts are so bad because their defense is a joke, their offensive line is a turnstile, and they have no running game.

Ummm.... I think it's pretty clear that I pay attention. Just because I try not to fall prey to either side's extremes, you think that's some sign? Sorry to rock your world, but the reality is that we don't know that the Patriots would have won any game with Hoyer under center. We've not seen Hoyer in that situation to even begin to really evaluate it.

And the "average QB" argument is nonsensical, because teams scheme and play differently against a Tom Brady than they do against an "average QB", even on days that Brady is struggling.

 

[ATippett56]

If you want to base your opinion of the defense on three blown plays by Tracy White and Sergio Brown, feel free. The offense's struggles is what even made that last drive matter.

A well coached defensive back does not run over a wide receiver with the game on the line especially with the football in flight. How is that Tom Brady's fault? Last time I checked, Tom Brady was not the defensive backfield coach!

 

[Joker]

I want a friggin' kicker to hit a damned 27 yard field goal just before halftime to at least put SOMETHING on the board for the half. I want the QB to hit an EASY target in Hernandez to score a TD in the same half. Zero points to open a game for a full half???? WTF kind of game plan did they work on all week?