Enough Value -Trade up and get a Playmaker!

[carolinatony]

Its time to cash in some of our picks. They are no good if you keep trading them back. Once Brady's gone it may be a while before we can win a SB.

We have no Impact Players on defense. Besides Vince I would trade this defense for anyones else's.
Who scares the other team? We never make a game turning play on defense. The defense has gone downhill the last 3/4 years.
We have enough ... oh he's coming along nice player and making strides.
Give us a stud of two on this defense.

Imo we lost a few SB's the last few years because of this defense.

I have been watching football since before there was a AFC so tell me again
how trading back our picks is good for getting more VALUE for them.

Let er rib!

 

[RhodyPatriot]

What?? And miss quality value like Dowling??

 

[hodgey]

I totally agree. I would be all for more picks if most of them would contribute. The fact is we have drafted the 3rd most players over the last several years, but Brady remains our only impact game changing player.

 

[coolguy]

lol the pats are the cheapest team in the league.

All the other teams shop at best buy and wallmart, while the pats shop at ebay for best deal.

 

[ay-yo]

Even if we don't trade into the top 10 it'd be nice to see us take 3 players between 16 and 32 (by trading our 2 2nds for a 1st).

 

[jsull87]

I wasn't going to post cause it seems this thread is full of the doom n gloom brigade.

But what i will say is it's not about trading up for the prospect. The value approach is fine... it's drafting the right player, there are busts at #1 just like there are busts at #32.

What has happened is that the people we have chosen in those spots are not turning out how we would have hopped. the draft is an inexact science but people should admit that we have not drafted as well as we would hope.

(2) Butler, (2)Brace (so far but i hold out hope), (3) Crabble, (2) Wheatley, (1) Merriweather (debatable but i think the pats fan base new more than most he was not a good saftey, Not a bust just not a guy ou can build your D around), (2) Cunningham (For now even tho i personally thing he is a good OLB in a 3-4), (3) Brandon Tate, (3) Tyrone Mckenzie, (3)Kevin O'Connell, (3) Taylor price (TBD, even tho i think he has great potential. He still hasn't put it on the field)

Above are a list of players drafted in rounds 1-3 since 2007 that in my opinion have the patriots as a team in the position they are in now defensively. one 1st rounder, four 2nd rounders, Four 3rd rounders with one TBD.

I am by no means a doom and groomer and defend most pats players as a an of this team. But i think it is undeniable that the above list is an example of poor draft picks by the patriots, not value strategy.

The only other team i have seen with as many misses as us that i have noticed is the Colts and look at their record without their HOF QB.

 

[Sciz]

The Pats can afford to miss since they take so many extra picks. Their percentage isn't even that bad, probably even above average. It's just that it's so easy to name more 2nd round Pats busts when they make 3 times as many second rounds picks as the average team.

 

[jsull87]

The Pats can afford to miss since they take so many extra picks. Their percentage isn't even that bad, probably even above average. It's just that it's so easy to name more 2nd round Pats busts when they make 3 times as many second rounds picks as the average team.

Exactly. Hence me agreeing that the Value based approach.. IMO is brilliant. But when looking at games like today and wondering why we don't have a dominant defense or WR's stretching the field. The answer is evident above.

Our approach to value have let us absorb these misses. But as i am sure some of the doom n gloomers on this board will gladly point out to you. Swap a couple of those names around and i think you would be looking at something very different on the pats as far as talent goes. e.g Tate-Wallace, Merriweather-Weddel, Butler-Smith.

Thats basically just me swapping our pick with the WR, S and CB next off the board.

 

[TheSolderKing]

I wasn't going to post cause it seems this thread is full of the doom n gloom brigade.

But what i will say is it's not about trading up for the prospect. The value approach is fine... it's drafting the right player, there are busts at #1 just like there are busts at #32.

What has happened is that the people we have chosen in those spots are not turning out how we would have hopped. the draft is an inexact science but people should admit that we have not drafted as well as we would hope.

(2) Butler, (2)Brace (so far but i hold out hope), (3) Crabble, (2) Wheatley, (1) Merriweather (debatable but i think the pats fan base new more than most he was not a good saftey, Not a bust just not a guy ou can build your D around), (2) Cunningham (For now even tho i personally thing he is a good OLB in a 3-4), (3) Brandon Tate, (3) Tyrone Mckenzie, (3)Kevin O'Connell, (3) Taylor price (TBD, even tho i think he has great potential. He still hasn't put it on the field)

Above are a list of players drafted in rounds 1-3 since 2007 that in my opinion have the patriots as a team in the position they are in now defensively. one 1st rounder, four 2nd rounders, Four 3rd rounders with one TBD.

I am by no means a doom and groomer and defend most pats players as a an of this team. But i think it is undeniable that the above list is an example of poor draft picks by the patriots, not value strategy.

The only other team i have seen with as many misses as us that i have noticed is the Colts and look at their record without their HOF QB.

I hate how POORLY our rd. 2 turnout Rate is

 

[Sciz]

I hate how POORLY our rd. 2 turnout Rate is

Except the rate isn't bad. The bulk number of busts is, but the rate at which his picks bust isn't at all.

 

[TriplecHamp]

still looking for that stud pass rusher or receiver? Don't get your hopes up lol

 

[Frick]

This is one year BB doesn't need to trade up that far to get a playmaker OLB, a 1st & 3rd for Upshaw. He's played the position ( in the semi-pros, SEC) under Saban, what more could Bill ask for. Plus any players that have been mentioned as having higher ceilings take two plays off for every one they play. (IMHO)

Still like this kid Chase Thomas OLB Stanford, already plays in 3-4. Seen him drive OT back into QB ( at 240 lbs.) good game speed, not just 40-4.6 but he's raw. Start year with Upshaw & Nink until Thomas is ready. ( like our new LB coach to work with them, Willie McGinest, he worked with kid from Fresno to get ready for the draft, only place this was annouced was in my head)
With 2 of our 2nd rd. picks (due to recent cuts & no developmental backups) we take one of the best FS & a decent corner. I hated the Dowling pick from the get go. Talent but hurt all the time, that's why I called him "right-after-surgery Dowling. Canon didn't bother me because it wasn;t a long line of things and it was a later rd. pick. Until they found cancer I called him " The tub of goo from TCU" but he played good in college & versatile, G/T.

 

[Dobbo]

I like the idea of trading up to get 3 first round picks. But it only matters if we make the right selections.

It may be a blessing in disguise if we do not make the playoffs (which i think we will BTW - by winning the division) as we may have two picks around #20 or thereabouts.

Am really hoping that NO and OAK bust from now on. We need to draft some defensive playmakers, but we also need to make 2/3 moves in FA.

WR - someone different to Branch/Wlker
S - a partner for Chung, an older head to marshall the DB's
OLB/DE - someone like Andre Carter again. We are not creating enough pressure as it stands.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Last year had two huge playmakers go very early in Miller and Dareus. However there is no way BB would have traded up for those guys given the lack of a rookie pay scale.

This year however, there is a rookie wage scale, but no impact player worth trading up for.

This should be the year BB sits pretty and takes four quality defenseive players

PS: If Upshaw has a huge game this Saturday, and I think he will, he will skyrocket up draft boards. Buffalo fans are already calling for the Bills to draft him.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Last year had two huge playmakers go very early in Miller and Dareus. However there is no way BB would have traded up for those guys given the lack of a rookie pay scale.

This year however, there is a rookie wage scale, but no impact player worth trading up for.

This should be the year BB sits pretty and takes four quality defenseive players

PS: If Upshaw has a huge game this Saturday, and I think he will, he will skyrocket up draft boards. Buffalo fans are already calling for the Bills to draft him.

play makers in the front 7 and back 4 can be had this year. Will BB finally pull the tigger, who knows. Im going to be watching pretty much the entire Bama Defense and Claibourne on LSU.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Last year had two huge playmakers go very early in Miller and Dareus. However there is no way BB would have traded up for those guys given the lack of a rookie pay scale.

This year however, there is a rookie wage scale, but no impact player worth trading up for.

This should be the year BB sits pretty and takes four quality defenseive players

PS: If Upshaw has a huge game this Saturday, and I think he will, he will skyrocket up draft boards. Buffalo fans are already calling for the Bills to draft him.

Let's say we are picking 26th and 28. We have two 2nd rounders. And, Buffalo and/or Jets are sitting 19-22 and needing a pass-rusher. We have the ammo to move up. A 1 and 3 would get us ahead of 19. I like Upshaw but he does look a little blocky at times. I wonder if Vinny Curry might be a better fit for Belichick's 3-4 preference. Devon Still having a monster senior year for PSU.
He is looking like he could be a 3-4 de. Was worried that he was athletic enough to do it based on last year. He's getting into and making plays in the backfield. Kind of similiar to Ty Warren if you ask me. He's no pass rusher. But, he can 2 gap.

Right now my ideal draft might be something like;
1a Upshaw/Curry - Willing to move up.
1b Devon Still - de - PSU - 3-4 or 4/3 dt
2a Robert Lester - fs - Bama Hope C. Palmer struggles in Oak.
2b Dwight Jones - WR - UNC - A change-up from our smaller shifty guys.
3 traded to move up and get pass rusher

 

[Dobbo]

I would take a WR and DB in free agency.

Smash out a defensive draft, get some playmakers. The only Offensive player i would take would be an OC.

 

[rdf63]

Spend the first three rounds only on defense and forget about drafting a CB, RB or any other specialty position. Use the first 2 rounds and draft for the defensive front seven and use the third round for a hard hitting safety!
1. LB – Zach Brown – UNC...tackling machine
1. DE/OLB – Courtney Upshaw – Alabama...hard hitting physical player or DE – Vinny Curry-Marshall
2. DT – Jerrell Worthy-Michigan State....may be the best DT in the draft
2. DE/DT - Melvin Ingram – SC...produces results and can cover
3. S – Mark Barron-Alabama or T.J. McDonald- S-USC....big and physical safeties

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Let's say we are picking 26th and 28. We have two 2nd rounders. And, Buffalo and/or Jets are sitting 19-22 and needing a pass-rusher. We have the ammo to move up. A 1 and 3 would get us ahead of 19. I like Upshaw but he does look a little blocky at times. I wonder if Vinny Curry might be a better fit for Belichick's 3-4 preference. Devon Still having a monster senior year for PSU.
He is looking like he could be a 3-4 de. Was worried that he was athletic enough to do it based on last year. He's getting into and making plays in the backfield. Kind of similiar to Ty Warren if you ask me. He's no pass rusher. But, he can 2 gap.

Right now my ideal draft might be something like;
1a Upshaw/Curry - Willing to move up.
1b Devon Still - de - PSU - 3-4 or 4/3 dt
2a Robert Lester - fs - Bama Hope C. Palmer struggles in Oak.
2b Dwight Jones - WR - UNC - A change-up from our smaller shifty guys.
3 traded to move up and get pass rusher

I could easily live with this draft. Still reminds me a little of Ty Warren.

I think we can get Curry or Upshaw with our first first round pick without having to burn a third rounder.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Spend the first three rounds only on defense and forget about drafting a CB, RB or any other specialty position. Use the first 2 rounds and draft for the defensive front seven and use the third round for a hard hitting safety!
1. LB – Zach Brown – UNC...tackling machine
1. DE/OLB – Courtney Upshaw – Alabama...hard hitting physical player or DE – Vinny Curry-Marshall
2. DT – Jerrell Worthy-Michigan State....may be the best DT in the draft
2. DE/DT - Melvin Ingram – SC...produces results and can cover
3. S – Mark Barron-Alabama or T.J. McDonald- S-USC....big and physical safeties

Brown looks very twiggy to me. Isn;t he a pure 4-3 LBer?