Warren: Pats getting away from 3-4.

[Ring 6]

I would say there's more than just what Warren said:

1) Lack of starting-caliber 34 OLBs
2) Acquisition of Heyward
3) Release of TBC and Warren
4) There's a photo on the Pats web site from day 1 of practice. Here's a link and you can go through the photos to see the defense line up: Vince and Love at DT, Moore and Cunningham at DE, Spikes, Mayo, Nink at LBs.

Patriots Training Camp - Day 1

1) They are the same ones we had last year. The 43 vs 34 doesnt change personell it changes alignment.
2) When did we get Heyward?
3) More likely due to the shape they showed up in and the cap hits they saved.
4) That tells us little. Every year we hear this commentary and every year someone says that since they played 43 early in camp that means something. All it means is they play 43 early in camp.

 

[Ring 6]

Ty has always been a DE throughout his career, whether that be a 3-4 DE with us, or a 4-3 DE in College. He's a terrific run defender, but he's not a DT.

If we are going to the 4-3, then we have more than enough cover for the DT position - other than the obvious two, there's Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor, Mike Wright..... an embarrassment of riches.

I think you mean a wealth of mediocrity.

If Warren were here and we played 43, he could play either DT or DE. He played nose as a rookie. We still will be a 2gap team and he would be equally comfortable over the T or the G.

 

[patsfan13]

any of these are very young (Brace, Deaderick, Love, Pryor) and should show improvement with a year's experience. It is way to early to cast them as mediocre. Added to 2 All Pros in VW and AH.

 

[Ring 6]

There will be uses for 1 gap. In 3rd down passing situations Playing Wilfolk and Haynesworth as 1 gap DT will collapse a lot of pockets. People forget that Wilfolk can be a devastating rusher in this sort of scheme, we have gotten used to hiim in the 2 gap NT role. What bothers Qb's the most (inc Brady) pressure up the middle. In a 4-2-5 we put Mayo/Guyton in Cunningham/Moore at DE.

BB wants flexibility we won't go totally away from 3-4, but this could help the pass d.

We never 2 gapped on 3rd down passing situations. We are talking, mostly, about 1st and 10, and about half of the 2nd downs.
Warren being cut has really nothing to do with sub package philosophy.

 

[patsfan13]

We never 2 gapped on 3rd down passing situations. We are talking, mostly, about 1st and 10, and about half of the 2nd downs.
Warren being cut has really nothing to do with sub package philosophy.

Warren and Wilfolk in passing plays will both demand a double team, this will make the other players better. BB is licking his chops and the mismatches he can create here. Pressure up the middle is the most effective weapon against the pass.

 

[Ring 6]

any of these are very young (Brace, Deaderick, Love, Pryor) and should show improvement with a year's experience. It is way to early to cast them as mediocre. Added to 2 All Pros in VW and AH.

Its not about early, its about what they are.
The depth at DT IF we convert to a 43 is NOT an embarrassment of riches. Mediocrity is as fair a term for those 4 as you could possibly come up with. Combined, they have done next to nothing in the NFL.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

In Hoodie we trust! Whatever BB decides to do it will be for the good of the team.

 

[Ring 6]

Warren and Wilfolk in passing plays will both demand a double team, this will make the other players better. BB is licking his chops and the mismatches he can create here. Pressure up the middle is the most effective weapon against the pass.

Sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree that Warren and Wilfork would have 4 blockers assigned to them, but I think there is little point in us debating it.

 

[scout]

But they are talking about changing the base from a 34 to 43, which I would be very surprised to see.
BTW, since ALL of this is based upon Ty Warren's comments, did anyone happen to notice that the day before, when he thought he was a starting DE on the line with Haynesworth and Wilfork, Warren had nothing of the sort to say?

Not disagreeing, but, Warren is not going to say anything about the D (the day before) or he's probably out the door. Could you imagine any Patriot talking Patriot strategy to the press? Welker gets demoted in a playoff game for talking foot smack.

 

[dex13]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

not really surprised at this since he was expecting to enter Redskin's camp and not the Pats so his motivation during the lockout was probably fairly low. I'll give him a couple weeks to show something.

 

[strngplyr]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

MikeReiss Mike Reiss
Makes little sense to throw Haynesworth right into a full-pad practice setting.
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Mike Reiss
MikeReiss Mike Reiss
The Patriots had a full-pad practice for the first time this camp. Have to be smart managing players' health in this transition.
4 minutes ago


Mike Reiss
MikeReiss Mike Reiss
On Albert Haynesworth not practicing today, would caution reading too much into it from a conditioning-test standpoint.

 

[crowell33]

Ian discusses the possible move the 4-3.

Saturday Afternoon Patriots Notes – Ochocinco Speaks, Welker Kicks a FG and More :Ian's New England Patriots Blog

 

[mgteich]

Tell me who the new addition is to the front seven, and perhaps I might be better able to judge whether we are using more 4-3 on first down.

The DT's are the best: Wilfork, Haynsworth and Wright.
The MLB position is all set with Mayo and Spikes.
So, we're fine up the middle.

Who are your first down DE's and OLB's (and backups) and where are they playing?
Deaderick
Pryor
Brace
Love
Cunningham
Ninkovich
Guyton
Moore
Fletcher
Murrell/Carter/FA

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Tell me who the new addition is to the front seven, and perhaps I might be better able to judge whether we are using more 4-3 on first down.

The DT's are the best: Wilfork, Haynsworth and Wright.
The MLB position is all set with Mayo and Spikes.
So, we're fine up the middle.

Who are your first down DE's and OLB's (and backups) and where are they playing?
Deaderick
Pryor
Brace
Love
Cunningham
Ninkovich
Guyton
Moore
Fletcher
Murrell/Carter/FA

I think we'll run more of a 2-5, with two of the LB putting their hand in the dirt, like we did in the SB against the Eagles. JMHO


............Guyton Spikes Mayo

Ninkovich Wilfork Haynesworth Cunningham

 

[patsfan13]

Tell me who the new addition is to the front seven, and perhaps I might be better able to judge whether we are using more 4-3 on first down.

The DT's are the best: Wilfork, Haynsworth and Wright.
The MLB position is all set with Mayo and Spikes.
So, we're fine up the middle.

Who are your first down DE's and OLB's (and backups) and where are they playing?
Deaderick
Pryor
Brace
Love
Cunningham
Ninkovich
Guyton
Moore
Fletcher
Murrell/Carter/FA

If Haynesworth is in on First down (against a team with a running game ie the Jets) I go Brace, Haynesworth at DE, VW at NT, Cunningham & Ninko at OLB.

Against the Colts, I play a nickle No Spikes. Haynesworth, Wilfolk at DT Deaderick at DE, Cunningham at OLB, Guyton/Fletcher at the other OLB. call ir a 2-4-5 if you like.

 

[scout]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

MikeReiss Mike Reiss
Makes little sense to throw Haynesworth right into a full-pad practice setting.
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Mike Reiss
MikeReiss Mike Reiss
The Patriots had a full-pad practice for the first time this camp. Have to be smart managing players' health in this transition.
4 minutes ago


Mike Reiss
MikeReiss Mike Reiss
On Albert Haynesworth not practicing today, would caution reading too much into it from a conditioning-test standpoint.

I thought newly acquired players could not practice till August 4th. At least that's what I heard on ESPN.

 

[BPF]

My thoughts are that there's more to the notion that there's a shift to more 4-3 fronts because of the shortned offseason. I doubt BB would be wasting valuable time he has precious little off with it if it's not a look the team will be using more.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Cunningham can take one OLB or DE spot on a 4-3. Ninkovich and Moore the other. A nickel formation would be 4-2-5. That means only 2 linebackers on the field. Depth shouldn't be an issue in that situation. A traditional 4-3-4 we might be a little short on bodies UNLESS Fletcher figures to have a key role in the 'new look' 4-3 for the Pats.

From left to right:

Cunningham-Wilfork-Haynesworth-Moore
---Fletcher---Mayo---Ninkovich---

Hmmm how does that look?
And assuming that Wright is healthy, we can always sub him in to spell Wilfork on 3rd downs.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I want Spikes on the field, I think that kid is going to be really good.

 

[Sciz]

Based simply on my own, uneducated football mind, I want this in a 4-3

LE: Wright
DT: Wilfork
DT: Haynesworth
RE: Cunningham
LOLB: Mayo
MLB: Spikes
ROLB: Guyton

I think this could be a way to use the team's abundant 3-4 ILB depth while covering the lack of an ideal second 3-4 OLB. Spikes at MLB behind Wilfork and Haynesworth is unfair. Mayo and Guyton play sideline to sideline. Wright is a great pocket-pusher and should help Cunningham's sack numbers.