Warren: Pats getting away from 3-4.

[Bostonian1962]

Warren didn't say that the Pats are moving away from a base 3-4. I think people are reading way too much into this. He said that they're moving in a different direction defensively, ie away from Ty Warren. That direction could be younger, could be more pass-oriented, could be towards guys who can pass their conditioning tests. Who knows? Moving away from the 3-4 is one of a number of possible explanations, and until they start practicing in a base 4-3 it's an unlikely one. Preseason starts in a couple of weeks- if they were switching base defenses, that would probably be reflected on the practice field.

??? Huh? The whole article is about them quite possibly going away from the 3-4. Warren DID said say that too: "I think it looks like they are getting away from the 3-4".

More from the article: "Instead of the base 3-4 alignment, which the Patriots utilized in 40 percent of the defensive snaps in 2010, they could line up in a more traditional four-man".

Still more: "perhaps Belichick spent his lockout offseason re-evaluating his belief in the 3-4 as a core philosophy".

I respectfully don't think anybody is reading that into the article. It's what it says throughout.

 

[Rob0729]

I am a bit surprised if the Pats are moving to a four man front (note I didn't say 4-3), but remember that the Pats were only in a true 3-4 about 40% of the time last year. They were in subpackages about 50-58% of the time and a true 4-3 about 2-3% of the time.

Also remember, this team won a Super Bowl as a 4-3 defense (they started the season as a 3-4 and quickly switched because they had no NT) with guys who became 3-4 stars like Bruschi, Phifer, McGinest, and Vrabel. I think the Pats can handle the switch.

Now to the reason why I am saying four man front instead of 4-3. If the Pats are moving away from the 3-4 (I don't think it will go away, I think it will be used less), I think Belichick sees the value of using the nickel and dime far more in a league that is now heavily pass oriented. In the past, nickel and dime defenses were used primarily on third down. Now most teams use it on second down quite a bit and even on first down depending on the team they are facing. That is what the Patriots did last year.

I don't know if the defensive strategy this year will be significantly different than last year. The Pats have already gotten away from the 3-4 last year quite a bit (which Warren missed). They may have the ratio shift a bit more. Who know?

 

[Ring 6]

But they are talking about changing the base from a 34 to 43, which I would be very surprised to see.
BTW, since ALL of this is based upon Ty Warren's comments, did anyone happen to notice that the day before, when he thought he was a starting DE on the line with Haynesworth and Wilfork, Warren had nothing of the sort to say?

 

[Rob0729]

But they are talking about changing the base from a 34 to 43, which I would be very surprised to see.
BTW, since ALL of this is based upon Ty Warren's comments, did anyone happen to notice that the day before, when he thought he was a starting DE on the line with Haynesworth and Wilfork, Warren had nothing of the sort to say?

Yeah, no where did Warren say they are changing to a 4-3 base. Warren says they are moving away from the 3-4. That is a huge distinction.

So if the Pats use the 3-4 35-40% of the time this year, how many of those downs would Warren play. He isn't playing on every 3-4 alignment. The Pats probably didn't think he was worth keeping around for 25-30% of the plays. Most of the the 3-4 guys they have on the d-line can play in s four man front.

I have heard that thus far most of the defensive alingments in practice have been four man fronts, but there were early in camp last year too.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the switch to more subpackages makes total sense when the Pats have continually spent high draft picks on defensive backs the last three years. He needs at least six good ones for all the subpackages.

 

[bucky]

BTW, since ALL of this is based upon Ty Warren's comments, did anyone happen to notice that the day before, when he thought he was a starting DE on the line with Haynesworth and Wilfork, Warren had nothing of the sort to say?

I would say there's more than just what Warren said:

1) Lack of starting-caliber 34 OLBs
2) Acquisition of Heyward
3) Release of TBC and Warren
4) There's a photo on the Pats web site from day 1 of practice. Here's a link and you can go through the photos to see the defense line up: Vince and Love at DT, Moore and Cunningham at DE, Spikes, Mayo, Nink at LBs.

Patriots Training Camp - Day 1

 

[patfanken]

This is ALL just wild speculation that this point. There is a LOT of dust that has to settle before we can even get to "mere speculation". Much more is going to happen over the next week or so. THEN we can at least speculate with some better info.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Michael Lombardi was asked on NFL network this very same question. He didnt answer it directly but what he did say is that with Wilfork and Haynesworth in the middle of the D the pats will take advantage of those two players to pass rush inside. It seemed to me that he meant pats are heading in that direction.

 

[BritPat]

Even if we are switching to 4-3, it doesn't make sense to cut Warren since he could have been solid playing tackle. Having a rotation of Vince, Albert, and Ty as tackles on a 4-3 would have been ideal.

Something tells me the fact that Ty was out of shape going into camp pissed BB off more than anything.

Ty has always been a DE throughout his career, whether that be a 3-4 DE with us, or a 4-3 DE in College. He's a terrific run defender, but he's not a DT.

If we are going to the 4-3, then we have more than enough cover for the DT position - other than the obvious two, there's Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor, Mike Wright..... an embarrassment of riches.

 

[HowardRoark]

Ty has always been a DE throughout his career, whether that be a 3-4 DE with us, or a 4-3 DE in College. He's a terrific run defender, but he's not a DT.

If we are going to the 4-3, then we have more than enough cover for the DT position - other than the obvious two, there's Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor, Mike Wright..... an embarrassment of riches.

We haven't signed G. Warren.

 

[JSn]

Too soon to talk D formations?

Apparently in camp today there was a lot of 4-3 look. Can't remember the exact DL setup, but LB's were Guyton and Mayo as OLB's (both good coverage guys) and Spikes as MLB. I hear he actually blew a play up from the MLB position (though blowing up a play in TC sounds more like "poof" then "blam").

We know the 4 man line has been showing up more and that the 4-3 may be here this year in larger portions. BUT... do Big Al and Big Vince give us a real shot and whipping some killer 2 DL formations? I seem to remember a LONG conversation a few years back about the 2-5. Any thoughts on that or other formations that might show up based on today's Personnel group?

(I've been out of football mode for months, apologies if I'm mixing up my groupings - bound to take a bit to knock the rust off).

 

[patfanken]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

Yes it is.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

It will be interesting to see Mayo playing OLB in some of the new sets. He's an athletic freak and I have a feeling we may like what we see.

So much of the new formations depend on Haynesworth getting in shape and being the dominating beast he once was. I'm nervous and elated at the same time.

 

[strngplyr]

Re: Too soon to talk D formations?

Al has to get on the field first. BB stated it's not salary reasons but wouldn't get specific.

Here we go again? New Patriots DT Albert Haynesworth “not ready to practice.”

Let's hope he gets it together quick. He's an absolute force on the field when he wants to be. He said he's treating it like he's a rookie and loves that the attitude here is all about winning and wants to be a part of it.

Now is your chance to prove it big guy.

 

[eom]

According to Peter King, Ty Warren said he'll take the veteran minimum to sign with a contender. Sounds to me like he's more hurt than maybe we realize.

His agent probably loves that.

I don't know what all the shock is over this,, but if you notice ---- he was cut.
nobody offered a 2014 5th for him.

 

[unoriginal]

Before we get ahead of ourselves, let's keep in mind that historically the Pats install their 4-3 and nickel subpackages in camp first, before focusing on the 3-4 2-gap base a week or so in. If the Pats are still lining up with Wilfork and Haynesworth at 1 tech and 3 tech at the end of next week we'll know the emphasis is changing.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

It may be a small but telling detail:

Aaron Lavarius 6'2 249 has been issued #60
Clay Nurse 6'3 259 has been issued #61
Alex Sivestro 6'3 260 has been issues # 69

Defensive lineman are issued numbers in the 60's, 70's and 90's.
Linebackers are issued numbers in the 50's, 90's and 40's.

It is possible with all the time BB had this offseason to reevaluate the scheme and available talent that he has considered changing the system. Other than Jermaine Cunningham, who has only one decent year under his belt, BB has not produced one OLB through the draft and his two big money free agent OLBs failed to live up to expectations.

 

[crowell33]

Could The Patriots Be Returning To The 4-3 Defense? ats Confidential

 

[Ring 6]

BTW, the switch to more subpackages makes total sense when the Pats have continually spent high draft picks on defensive backs the last three years. He needs at least six good ones for all the subpackages.

My point is that I wouldnt put any credence in Warrens remarks meaning there is any switch of anything.

 

[N.Eman]

Re: What scheme change?

Yeah but our 3 best LB's are all MLB (Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher-->personal opinion). Who would play where?

Maybe have Spikes and Fletcher be 2 guys in the middle and have Mayo just roam around looking to make a big play? Just an idea.

HA! I love that idea. Mayo as the mike backer !! Here we go 3rd down defense!!!