Let's talk about current depth

[mgteich]

RUNNING BACKS
OK, let be more clear. We had 5 running back roster spots last year. Our current fieve are: Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Vareen, Ridley and Compton. We are presuming the first two as starters, even though Green-Ellis isn't signed yet (I don't think). There are lots of roles that are filled or potentially filled by the backup running backs. You say that there is no reason to believe that Belichick is looking for a free agent option.

OPTION 1
Belichick is not considering free agent options. He is fine with who we have. He will keep either 4 or 5 running backs, but there is no posibility of an upgrade.

OPTION 2
Obviously Green-Ellis could be injured, or two running backs could be injured. Belichick is active looking for a veteran backup. Two starters, two kids and a veteran (Faulk or another) seems to be a perfect mix.

OPTION 3
How long have you been a patriot fan? Belichick is ALWAYS looking for any option to upgrade the team. If he sees a way to upgrade the team with a free agent, then he'll take it. Certainly, a 5th running back better than Compton is possible for some of us.
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LEFT TACKLE
Almost anyone here SHOULD be happy with an upgrade over LeVoir and Maneri if Belichick can find it. Even if Kaczur is a acceptable as a realiable backup at $3.5M this year, it is extremely unlikely that Belichick will want to pay $4.2M to a backup in 2012, given that we have 2 young starters. Bottom line, a mid-level backup for 3 years seems right.

We also have no reason to believe Bill is looking for a free agent option.

It's anybody's guess as to Bill's opinion of the rb's and what they will actually produce. My guess is Vereen ends up with over 100 total touches and over 500 yards on offense this year.



I see Solder / Vollmer as your LT/RT and Kaczur as the swing(depth) tackle. If healthy Kaczur is excellent depth having started at both LT and RT for the Pats in the past. The quality of the starting LT may not be up to some people's standards but the depth is better than most, if not all, positions on the team. (I know Kaczur health is a big if. I don't know about his health and will happily concede to anybody who does.)

If we re-sign Matt Light then there's a domino effect and the depth is even better.

 

[mgteich]

I am not questioning whether 2nd and 3rd rounder can produce. After all, UDFA's sometimes produce also. The question is whether they are likely to produce. Of all the 2nd and 3rd rounders, what was their production. Is this analysis enough for Belichick to pass on Faulk or another veteran? How comfortable does any feel if Green-Ellis is injured. Obviously injuries happen. However, there should be backups in place ready to play. The team can't prepare for every contingency. Rookies taking a year to develop is not that unreasonable a possibility. It is worth preparing for.

I did it in an earlier post.......2010 was a unique year in terms of low rookie RB production. However, the 4 previous years produced many RB's from the 2nd and later who produced in their rookie years.....this is just a partial list

2009: lesean mccoy, shonn greene, rashad jennings, bernard scott
2008: matt forte, ray rice, kevin smith, steve slaton, tashard choice
2007: brian leonard, brandon jackson
2006: lendale white, MJD, jerious norwood, leon washington

the bottom line is that it is ridiculous to assert that vereen and ridley will not give the pats good depth simply because they're rookies.

 

[Ron Sellers]

RUNNING BACKS
OK, let be more clear. We had 5 running back roster spots last year. Our current fieve are: Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Vareen, Ridley and Compton. We are presuming the first two as starters, even though Green-Ellis isn't signed yet (I don't think). There are lots of roles that are filled or potentially filled by the backup running backs. You say that there is no reason to believe that Belichick is looking for a free agent option.

OPTION 1
Belichick is not considering free agent options. He is fine with who we have. He will keep either 4 or 5 running backs, but there is no posibility of an upgrade.

OPTION 2
Obviously Green-Ellis could be injured, or two running backs could be injured. Belichick is active looking for a veteran backup. Two starters, two kids and a veteran (Faulk or another) seems to be a perfect mix.

OPTION 3
How long have you been a patriot fan? Belichick is ALWAYS looking for any option to upgrade the team. If he sees a way to upgrade the team with a free agent, then he'll take it. Certainly, a 5th running back better than Compton is possible for some of us.
=======================

LEFT TACKLE
Almost anyone here SHOULD be happy with an upgrade over LeVoir and Maneri if Belichick can find it. Even if Kaczur is a acceptable as a realiable backup at $3.5M this year, it is extremely unlikely that Belichick will want to pay $4.2M to a backup in 2012, given that we have 2 young starters. Bottom line, a mid-level backup for 3 years seems right.

All kidding aside - did I miss something? Did the Pats convert Compton from QB to RB, similar to how Edelman was converted to WR last year?

Or did you mean to write Thomas Clayton?

 

[BlueThunder]

troublemaker.....

 

[mgteich]

My bad. Yes, Clayton.

When I write a player off, I sometimes forget everything about him.

All kidding aside - did I miss something? Did the Pats convert Compton from QB to RB, similar to how Edelman was converted to WR last year?

Or did you mean to write Thomas Clayton?

 

[Ron Sellers]

troublemaker.....

At first I was going to be sarcastic, but when I saw it twice I actually started to doubt myself and wonder. mgteich may occasionally have some spellcheck issues, but he's usually without peer when it comes to the Pats' roster.

 

[ay-yo]

OPTION 1
Belichick is not considering free agent options. He is fine with who we have. He will keep either 4 or 5 running backs, but there is no posibility of an upgrade.

Obviously I don't believe there is no possibility for an upgrade. That's kinda silly. But compare the amount of money needed to provide an upgrade at rb and using the same amount to upgrade a different position. The upgrade provided at a different position could improve the team more. I'm no expert on our cap situation but I'd look to upgrade other positions first.

OPTION 2
Obviously Green-Ellis could be injured, or two running backs could be injured. Belichick is active looking for a veteran backup. Two starters, two kids and a veteran (Faulk or another) seems to be a perfect mix.

This is very reasonable. I'm am optimist tho. So b/c we may keep 4 TE's, 3 QB's (compared to 2 last year) or 6 cb's I'm hoping Faulk stays in shape and close to his phone. If an injury hits he can step in and not miss a beat. It wouldn't surprise me to see 5 rb's on opening day roster tho.

OPTION 3
How long have you been a patriot fan? Belichick is ALWAYS looking for any option to upgrade the team. If he sees a way to upgrade the team with a free agent, then he'll take it. Certainly, a 5th running back better than Compton is possible for some of us.

# of posts =/= how long some has been a fan or knowledge of the team. I'm well aware of how Bill operates. I'm leaning toward 4 rb's being on opening day roster as I eluded to above. If we do keep 5 rb's being on opening day roster I fully expect Clayton to be upgraded.

 

[patchick]

So b/c we may keep 4 TE's, 3 QB's (compared to 2 last year) or 6 cb's I'm hoping Faulk stays in shape and close to his phone.

I'll join you in imagining 4 rb's. I think it's viable, especially since the eldest of the 4 is a whopping 26 years old. That's a far cry from last year's broken-down backfield.

It should be especially viable if Vareen & Ridley look even halfway competent, because they're both notable for well-rounded skillsets. Both should be able to carry the ball up the middle AND catch some passes AND pick up the blitz.

 

[supafly]

I'll join you in imagining 4 rb's. I think it's viable, especially since the eldest of the 4 is a whopping 26 years old. That's a far cry from last year's broken-down backfield.

It should be especially viable if Vareen & Ridley look even halfway competent, because they're both notable for well-rounded skillsets. Both should be able to carry the ball up the middle AND catch some passes AND pick up the blitz.

My favorite attribute in a RB. You can plod up the middle for a 3.5 average all day long in my book, just pick--up--the--blitz!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

1b.) Are any positions so weak that they could endanger the team's potential Super Bowl run?

That's ultimately the question, and while we know the Patriots, with Brady and Belichick at the helm, can overcome deficiencies to win Championships, we've also seen games where opposing teams have exploited weaknesses.

To me, giving Brady a complete offense around him is key. Yes, Brady can win a ton of games even with Reche Caldwell as his #1 WR - but give Brady a complete offense and he can be nearly unstoppable, especially while Belichick works magic covering up any defensive inadequacies to hold other teams in check.

So for me the #1 concern is having a complete offense, and part of that means finding someone to serve as a credible deep threat with a solid OL and deep and diverse RB corp to complement a strong TE lineup.

Give Brady all those weapons and other teams will not be happy.

 

[supafly]

That's ultimately the question, and while we know the Patriots, with Brady and Belichick at the helm, can overcome deficiencies to win Championships, we've also seen games where opposing teams have exploited weaknesses.

To me, giving Brady a complete offense around him is key. Yes, Brady can win a ton of games even with Reche Caldwell as his #1 WR - but give Brady a complete offense and he can be nearly unstoppable, especially while Belichick works magic covering up any defensive inadequacies to hold other teams in check.

So for me the #1 concern is having a complete offense, and part of that means finding someone to serve as a credible deep threat with a solid OL and deep and diverse RB corp to complement a strong TE lineup.

Give Brady all those weapons and other teams will not be happy.

Exactly one of the reasons why I thought the draft would be offensive minded. (besides the obvious fact that the defense had been drastically overhauled in the past few drafts, without much attention to the offensive side, specifically 'higher' picks in rds 1-3)

With an eye on the future towards the offensive line, a more physical approach with a better balance on the ground, the incorporation of the young TE's into the gameplan, and another year of Welker/Branch underneath-intermediate, I think that ONE of either Tate or Price only has to produce at a certain moderate level. I also think that level is a lot less than we expect or 'want.' If one of them can catch 35-40 balls, we should be just fine.

I take that back. If one of them can produce at 30-35 receptions, we WILL be just fine. This offense, barring major injuries, should be right around the same as last yr. Even in the NYJ game, the rushing attack was good (and it should have been, considering the NYJ gameplan). Now they may not be able to exploit that same gameplan, not only b/c of our changes, but also due to their personnel changes too, as Cromartie may not be there, and their offense may also take a hit.

No matter what anyone says, I still think the defense were the ones who did not show up in the NYJ game--even though the injury factor could/should be attributed to that.

With the defense (hopefully) improved and (hopefully) healthier, I think we will be just fine, and at times very, very competitive.

I wish to (obviously) sign Mankins, and hopefully work on at least a framework extension with Welker. Everything else can be dealt with, just like any other year.

An added icing on the cake would be the FA signing of a moderate name at WR (2nd/3rd tier), but I don't see a major signing at WR, mostly b/c I think they'd be somewhat wasted, especially from a financial standpoint. After switching to a 'different' type of offense after Moss left, I am pretty certain that we will stay with that approach. However, the addition of a stretch-the-field WR certainly cannot hurt.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is very reasonable. I'm am optimist tho. So b/c we may keep 4 TE's, 3 QB's (compared to 2 last year) or 6 cb's I'm hoping Faulk stays in shape and close to his phone. If an injury hits he can step in and not miss a beat. It wouldn't surprise me to see 5 rb's on opening day roster tho.

If Faulk doesn't make the roster and wants to keep playing, he'll get plenty of chances to go elsewhere most likely. There are quite a few teams that I could see going after him. The Browns, for starters, would likely make a strong push.

 

[supafly]

Since we're on the subject of WR depth, does anyone see the possibility of the 'other' Moss coming here?

I do not know, off-hand what he would be expecting salary-wise, but it would seem to me that he is a very good route runner, with a team first attitude, who can also contribute in our 'regular' attack (short-to-mid level) should there be an injury. I am not sure if 6-7 million would do it, I imagine that it may not. Interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on the potential of a guy such as Santana Moss?

Almost the 'best of both worlds' approach. Depth for an injury, which would continue the regular approach of the passing game (in other words, he can also do much of the same as Branch/Welker) + allowing for some deeper threats/shots downfield, all while also keeping the defense more honest.

The problem then becomes, who would go at WR?

--Branch
--Welker
--Tate/Price
--Edelman

Then we'd be back at the 6 WR square one again, only this time, with no Slater to acct for. As most of us still expect Slater to stay on, then where exactly would he go? At safety there appears to be incredibly decent depth there too, so with a FA signing of any worth at WR, we could then determine that:

--one of the WR will be cut/traded
--Slater will likely not make it back as a ST-only player...unless you see him at a logjam of safety positions that include 1.Meriweather 2.Chung 3.Sanders 4.Page or McGowan 5.Barrett or Slater??? If the team kept 5 safeties, then they'd certainly only be able to keep 5 CB's at the most too--making a total of 10. Lots of options go into play when thinking of adding a moderate to bigger name WR,

I imagine, it would almost be a "WRBC" approach instead of at RB (or better yet, along with RB). Welker would be about the only staple, with maybe S.Moss the other guy getting the majority of reps at the "WR2" spot (whatever that means on this team). Then Branch, Tate, Price, and Edelman would be used as lesser-snap role WR's, and specialty WR's. Is this actually an option? Is there any sense to this thought at all?

And if not Santana Moss, then insert your WR player _____ who may make some sense.

 

[Joker]

have you heard the growing swell of noise coming from the Land Of Green Flatulence? Randy Moss to sign with the Rats with Blubbergutty Buddy the Toe Menace guaranteeing him a Super Bowl ring?....could this really be happening?

 

[BradyFTW!]

have you heard the growing swell of noise coming from the Land Of Green Flatulence? Randy Moss to sign with the Rats with Blubbergutty Buddy the Toe Menace guaranteeing him a Super Bowl ring?....could this really be happening?

The headline article over on JetsInsider right now is wondering whether Santonio Holmes will wind up with the Patriots this season, so... yeah. Who knows what's going on over there.

 

[supafly]

The headline article over on JetsInsider right now is wondering whether Santonio Holmes will wind up with the Patriots this season, so... yeah. Who knows what's going on over there.

Now THAT's something that I just don't see happening...LOL.

 

[supafly]

have you heard the growing swell of noise coming from the Land Of Green Flatulence? Randy Moss to sign with the Rats with Blubbergutty Buddy the Toe Menace guaranteeing him a Super Bowl ring?....could this really be happening?

That's all this rivalry needs. More fuel to the fire.

 

[Joker]

Make no mistake about it...until this fat slob bigmouth is DESTROYED by the Patriots and sent back to the green slime pits they oozed out of, this will NEVER be settled.This fat jerk will keep running his mouth and picking up our castoffs and have his assistants make all kinds of disgusting, lying blabberisms in the press (Westhoff) about why the Patriots are evil and the lily white ,pristine and pure Jets are sure Super Bowl winners, guaranteed.He needs to be revealed like he was against that banged up Pittsburgh squad in the AFC championship...standing there like Gigot (the Jackie Gleason deaf mute movie) while that little glory hounding statutory rapist is running to the sideline begging ANYONE to tell him what to do on 4th and goal from the 1.

 

[supafly]

If Faulk doesn't make the roster and wants to keep playing, he'll get plenty of chances to go elsewhere most likely. There are quite a few teams that I could see going after him. The Browns, for starters, would likely make a strong push.

Agreed. I'd hate to see Faulk go to another team though, I'm actually still holding out hope that there will be a spot for him here. You never know when there will be an injury or two, and we'll be in that same infamous situation where we need him to sniff out the chains. (No intended reference to the Indy game/4th and 2 etc) I still want Faulk in that situation just about every time.

 

[DaBruinz]

We spend a lot of time discussing individual players, especially starters. I thought it would be interesting to change it up a bit. Let's talk just projected backups and empty positions, understanding that free agency and UDFAs will likely change the equation.

1a) What positions are the weakest?
1b.) Are any positions so weak that they could endanger the team's potential Super Bowl run?

2a.) What positions are the strongest?
2b.) Are any positions so strong that they could be looked at as even, or an upgrade, coming in for the starter(s)?

1a) weak: RG, C, OT Empty positions: LT, RDE
1b) LT : With a right-handed QB, the LT position is key. If Light isn't re-signed, then Solder will be learning under fire. This may result in the Pats using a lot of 2 TE sets and lining Crumpler up next to him. If Solder can't handle it, then it would definitely keep the Pats from the SB.

2a) CB, ILB, TE, WR
2b) I don't see any position that I'd consider it even or an upgrade with the guy coming off the bench unless you are talking about comparing different situations. Guyton is an upgrade over Spikes in passing situations. Hernandez is an upgrade over Crumpler in the passing game, but a downgrade in the blocking game.