PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Cameron Heyward

Status
Not open for further replies.
In college Seymour played along side Stroud and while Stroud tried to shoot the gap, Seymour covered the gaps behind him and that showed BB what a huge monster he was as a potential two gapper.

Ok O.J, now question? Do you see Watt as a space eater like seymour was in Georgia? What do you think BB is looking for? Because If its a seymour-esq DE I don't think he's looking for watt/Jordan type guys. Wilkerson/Heyward come to mind even Ellis if he can lose some weight.

I think ultimately he'll be looking for Beef up front in april and maybe some situational Backers in the mid to late rounds.
 
I’m really torn on the DE’s in this years draft. I love Watts motor, work ethic, pass rush and intensity. In fact I love everything about him except for his fit in our system. I just don’t think he has the bulk, technique or discipline to be a two gap DE. He is a gap shooter and a penetrator, and a very good one at that, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that he could fit as a base DE in our system. I don’t think he has the strength, discipline or technique to take on double teams, control the B and C gaps, stack and shed and make plays against the run. He generates pressure by shooting gaps rather than collapsing the pocket which doesn’t really fit with our system. I think he would be a perfect fit for a 1-gap 3-4 like Dallas or Houston, but I wouldn’t be comfortable trading up for him, which is likely what is required. He would be a beast as a situational pass rusher with the hope of developing against the run, but I’m not comfortable spending a 1st rounder on a guy like that, especially with the prospects of no OTA's or mini camps. I feel the same way about Cam Jordan who I also don’t see as a fit at DE in a two gap system. I know there has been some talk about moving both of these guys to the elephant OLB role, but once again I don’t know if I would take that risk in the 1st round.

I think by far the best two fits system wise are Cameron Hayward and Mohammed Wilkerson, who each have question marks of their own. I think Wilkerson is the safer of these two because I think at minimum he will be a contributor. But I also think his ceiling is a lot lower. I think he is more of a LE, who can be a very solid player and a good run stuffer, but he will be a very limited pass rusher and I don’t see him being anything special. I think he would be a solid guy in the late 1st, but I wouldn’t take him any higher because I don’t know how much of an upgrade he will be over the guys we already have, especially because he is best suited to the LE position. If he is available at 28 I would definitely take a long look at him, but I don’t think he gets that far. I currently have him mocked to SD at 18.

Hayward on the other hand has the skills and potential to be an All-Pro DE. He is a great run stuffer, shows the ability to stack and shed, and fits well into the two-gap system. He has also shown promise as a pass rusher when he is really motivated. However, this is where the problem lies. Hayward has been extremely inconsistent, especially against lesser competition in the past 2 years. He seems to step up huge in big games, but disappears in others. This means that he obviously has the talent, so there is some other issue. Everything I’ve read from coaches and teammates talk about his great work ethic and how hard he works. If this is true I think the only way of explaining this inconsistency is a lack of motivation. That’s definitely an issue and a big red flag. However, if BB believes he can motivate him we could get a steal.

After his sugar bowl performance it seemed as if Hayward had skyrocketed back into the middle of the 1st round. But after his injury and time for scouts to re-evaluate his tape, he is falling back into the late 1st/early 2nd, where I think he belongs. When you take into account the depth of the DL in this draft, as well as the possible run on QB’s and OT’s at the end of the first round of this draft, I think it’s very likely that Heyward will be available in early round 2. My preference would be to make a small trade down from 28 into the early 2nd, with a team like Buffalo moving up for an OT or Cincinnati moving up for Ponder or Dalton. I would prefer this option because we can pick up an extra 4th round pick and still draft Heyward without using the 33rd pick. I think the 33rd pick has so much value that I would prefer to trade it and use 34 or 35 to take Heyward.

This would be my preference because we get a guy that’s a great fit for the system for a reasonable value, while still having 17 to get an impact player. Ideally I would trade up to around 10 and get either Da’Quan Bowers or Julio Jones, or make a smaller trade up to 12 or 13 and get Robert Quinn. Hayward wouldn’t offer as much value as a situational pass rusher in sub packages, but that is where I think a guy like Da’Quan Bowers who can play as a 3-tech or 5-tech in passing situations would offer more value than the other OLB’s in this draft. We could then look at a specialist interior pass rusher like Cedrick Thornton in the 5th/6th round to groom for a Mike Wright role. This way we get an athletic DE that can stop the run and collapse the pocket when required, an elephant OLB that can set the edge, rush the passer and play as a pass rushing DL in sub packages, and a late round situational pass rusher. We also still have whatever we got from trading down from 33, two 3rds and two 4ths to add O-line depth, a RB and maybe some risk/reward players such as Kenrick Ellis, Greg Romeus and Deunta Williams.
 
I’m really torn on the DE’s in this years draft. I love Watts motor, work ethic, pass rush and intensity. In fact I love everything about him except for his fit in our system. I just don’t think he has the bulk, technique or discipline to be a two gap DE. He is a gap shooter and a penetrator, and a very good one at that, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that he could fit as a base DE in our system. I don’t think he has the strength, discipline or technique to take on double teams, control the B and C gaps, stack and shed and make plays against the run. He generates pressure by shooting gaps rather than collapsing the pocket which doesn’t really fit with our system. I think he would be a perfect fit for a 1-gap 3-4 like Dallas or Houston, but I wouldn’t be comfortable trading up for him, which is likely what is required. He would be a beast as a situational pass rusher with the hope of developing against the run, but I’m not comfortable spending a 1st rounder on a guy like that, especially with the prospects of no OTA's or mini camps. I feel the same way about Cam Jordan who I also don’t see as a fit at DE in a two gap system. I know there has been some talk about moving both of these guys to the elephant OLB role, but once again I don’t know if I would take that risk in the 1st round.

I think by far the best two fits system wise are Cameron Hayward and Mohammed Wilkerson, who each have question marks of their own. I think Wilkerson is the safer of these two because I think at minimum he will be a contributor. But I also think his ceiling is a lot lower. I think he is more of a LE, who can be a very solid player and a good run stuffer, but he will be a very limited pass rusher and I don’t see him being anything special. I think he would be a solid guy in the late 1st, but I wouldn’t take him any higher because I don’t know how much of an upgrade he will be over the guys we already have, especially because he is best suited to the LE position. If he is available at 28 I would definitely take a long look at him, but I don’t think he gets that far. I currently have him mocked to SD at 18.

Hayward on the other hand has the skills and potential to be an All-Pro DE. He is a great run stuffer, shows the ability to stack and shed, and fits well into the two-gap system. He has also shown promise as a pass rusher when he is really motivated. However, this is where the problem lies. Hayward has been extremely inconsistent, especially against lesser competition in the past 2 years. He seems to step up huge in big games, but disappears in others. This means that he obviously has the talent, so there is some other issue. Everything I’ve read from coaches and teammates talk about his great work ethic and how hard he works. If this is true I think the only way of explaining this inconsistency is a lack of motivation. That’s definitely an issue and a big red flag. However, if BB believes he can motivate him we could get a steal.

After his sugar bowl performance it seemed as if Hayward had skyrocketed back into the middle of the 1st round. But after his injury and time for scouts to re-evaluate his tape, he is falling back into the late 1st/early 2nd, where I think he belongs. When you take into account the depth of the DL in this draft, as well as the possible run on QB’s and OT’s at the end of the first round of this draft, I think it’s very likely that Heyward will be available in early round 2. My preference would be to make a small trade down from 28 into the early 2nd, with a team like Buffalo moving up for an OT or Cincinnati moving up for Ponder or Dalton. I would prefer this option because we can pick up an extra 4th round pick and still draft Heyward without using the 33rd pick. I think the 33rd pick has so much value that I would prefer to trade it and use 34 or 35 to take Heyward.

This would be my preference because we get a guy that’s a great fit for the system for a reasonable value, while still having 17 to get an impact player. Ideally I would trade up to around 10 and get either Da’Quan Bowers or Julio Jones, or make a smaller trade up to 12 or 13 and get Robert Quinn. Hayward wouldn’t offer as much value as a situational pass rusher in sub packages, but that is where I think a guy like Da’Quan Bowers who can play as a 3-tech or 5-tech in passing situations would offer more value than the other OLB’s in this draft. We could then look at a specialist interior pass rusher like Cedrick Thornton in the 5th/6th round to groom for a Mike Wright role. This way we get an athletic DE that can stop the run and collapse the pocket when required, an elephant OLB that can set the edge, rush the passer and play as a pass rushing DL in sub packages, and a late round situational pass rusher. We also still have whatever we got from trading down from 33, two 3rds and two 4ths to add O-line depth, a RB and maybe some risk/reward players such as Kenrick Ellis, Greg Romeus and Deunta Williams.

Nice analysis man, I'm all for it!! It should be fun next month, and will seem like it's taking forever to get here. We could use some good news after the playoff hype and letdown, plus the current labor situation.

As much as Watt would be nice, I really don't feel too confident that he's coming here for several reasons--but I hope I am wrong. I'm not sure about how much of your analysis is spot on, and how much is your opinion, but we've certainly had some great debates on the prospects. I agree with you about Heyward, and I do believe that he could hold up well at the LOS, with hopes of finally getting a LB that can make an impact. That would be a wonderful scenario--that's for sure.
 
I've said this before but I can really see us going nowhere near any of these DE's. Maybe Ellis and/or Bailey in the 2nd as nice additions. Im high on Bailey as this Elephant type who's not a liability in coverage

I'm really starting to think we trade down from 17 and 28 and pick up depth across the OL and possibly a tall WR, down-field target such as Hankerson. Perhaps go for for a Carimi or Tyron Smith if he falls

If Mankins/Light aren't resolved our OL looks really week. Watkins, Bolling, Iljana etc.I hope we can get a few of them or similar in the 3rd
 
Cam ran a 4.95 in the 40 and had a 35 verticle leap

Nice showing today for the future OLB/DE
 
Cam ran a 4.95 in the 40 and had a 35 verticle leap

Nice showing today for the future OLB/DE

Yeah, he did well. Couldn't do the bench presses yet b/c of the elbow, but that shouldn't have much bearing on it IMO.

"UPDATE: By all accounts, Heyward did well in his workout. He weighed 295 pounds, ran the 40 in the 4.95-4.96 range and recorded an impressive 35-inch vertical jump, according to NFL.com"
 
Mark me down as someone who hopes we draft Cameron Heyward. 3-4 ends like him dont come along all that often. We really need to jump on a player like this when he's actually available.
 
He was a dominant DL at the college level and some games stick out like vs Arkansas YouTube - No. 97 Cameron Heyward Sugar Bowl 2011 but it's my opinion that there is some misinformation out there about this kid. People say he doesn’t always play up to that dominant DL level but that's not the case, he very consistent and he always plays hard but he was asked to do a lot of different things that don't show up on the stat sheet at Ohio St. He absolutely beats the daylights out of TEs and seems like a perfect fit for Pats 3-4 but his elbow surgery makes it difficult to pin down a value. If it wasn't for that I'd say he's a top 20 pick with that and I obviously don't have access to medical reports I'd say 26-40.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, he did well. Couldn't do the bench presses yet b/c of the elbow, but that shouldn't have much bearing on it IMO.

"UPDATE: By all accounts, Heyward did well in his workout. He weighed 295 pounds, ran the 40 in the 4.95-4.96 range and recorded an impressive 35-inch vertical jump, according to NFL.com"

Mark me down as someone who hopes we draft Cameron Heyward. 3-4 ends like him dont come along all that often. We really need to jump on a player like this when he's actually available.

He was a dominant DL at the college level and some games stick out like vs Arkansas YouTube - No. 97 Cameron Heyward Sugar Bowl 2011 but it's my opinion that there is some misinformation out there about this kid. People say he doesn’t always play up to that dominant DL level but that's not the case, he very consistent and he always plays hard but he was asked to do a lot of different things that don't show up on the stat sheet at Ohio St. He absolutely beats the daylights out of TEs and seems like a perfect fit for Pats 3-4 but his elbow surgery makes it difficult to pin down a value. If it wasn't for that I'd say he's a top 20 pick with that and I obviously don't have access to medical reports I'd say 26-40.

Does any one know if and how he did in the shuttle, 3-cone and 10 yard split? Him lifting isn't an issue for me, I have seen enough to know he can be stout at the POA and his 35 inch vert isn't surprising at all. This kid is explosive and will control gaps for the next 10 years for someone.

Russ I got you on the petition buddy, I'm sending it to the war room the morning of the draft.

Edit: Also in related news, the patriots only sent the area scout Dujuan Daniels to see cam workout. Make of it what you will, I hope they are just putting on their poker face.
 
Last edited:
Does any one know if and how he did in the shuttle, 3-cone and 10 yard split? Him lifting isn't an issue for me, I have seen enough to know he can be stout at the POA and his 35 inch vert isn't surprising at all. This kid is explosive and will control gaps for the next 10 years for someone.

Russ I got you on the petition buddy, I'm sending it to the war room the morning of the draft.

Edit: Also in related news, the patriots only sent the area scout Dujuan Daniels to see cam workout. Make of it what you will, I hope they are just putting on their poker face.
If you have a link to the report of Dujuan Daniels attending Cam Hayward's personal pro-day, it would help the tracking to post it in the contact tracking thread. Muchos Gracias.
 
If you have a link to the report of Dujuan Daniels attending Cam Hayward's personal pro-day, it would help the tracking to post it in the contact tracking thread. Muchos Gracias.

Per Ian Rapoport the day of his workout:

Twitter

De nada mi hermano.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: Patriots Rookie Mini Camp and Signings
Patriots News 05-10, Patriots Rookie Minicamp Starts
MORSE: Way Too Early 53-man Roster Projection
Several Remaining Patriots Free Agents Still Seeking Homes
ESPN Insider on Patriots A.J. Brown Trade: ‘I Think He Knows Where His Future is Headed’
Former Patriots Staffer Reveals Surprising Person Behind Two Key Player Cornerstone Additions in 2021
Patriots News 05-03, A.J. Brown Concerns, Vrabel’s Saga
MORSE: Clearing the Notebook from the Patriots Draft
What Does An Early Look At The Patriots’ 53-Man Roster Prediction Look Like?
MORSE: Final Patriots Draft Analysis
Back
Top