Why do people want to replace BJGE???

[upstater1]

Really?

There's no straw man here. It's abundantly clear that you're equating Bledsoe to Maroney and Brady to BJGE in your analogy argument. The problem is that your argument sucks. It's a hell of a lot easier to beat out a Maroney level player than it is to beat out a Bledsoe level player. I'm sorry you can't seem to grasp that.

ROFL, who cares who is easier to beat out. Again you change the subject. brady wasn't ready for starting in the NFL as a rookie. Ridiculous. He was 4th freakin' string. he didn't even beat out Michael Bishop.

The idea you're putting forth, that players don't develop in their first years, is ludicrous, preposterous and just downright STOOOOOPID.

 

[upstater1]

Sometimes everything needs to be spelled out and explained.........It was not an issue that BJGE couldn't BEAT out maroney....it was more that Maroney was a first round pick and BB doesn't like to be proven wrong on his draft.picks....and I also think everyone had such high hopes for maroney and he had such apparent explosive potential....(dungy, shanny et all had him high on draft board)....that BB/PATS kept trying to find the superstar inside LoMo......but it wasn't there....samething happened with chad Jackson....and where is he now?

That's not even part of the discussion. All that's being discussed is who is better. The thing that's being picked apart is my contention that BJGE is better than Maroney -- because he beat him out.

 

[upstater1]

I responded to your post, cant really keep up with all the revisions.
Maroney in 2007 and BJGE in 2010 were as close to equal as it gets.
How can James not be considered to have been a better RB for the Patriots when he had one good year (thats not true, he had 2) that was better than BJGEs one good year? Again I ask, what is your argument?

That the Patriots have expended a ton of resources on the position over the last 30 years, and outside of a couple cases, they haven't been able to upgrade that position above a BJGE level. It was all in the original post you responded to.

 

[Ring 6]

That the Patriots have expended a ton of resources on the position over the last 30 years, and outside of a couple cases, they haven't been able to upgrade that position above a BJGE level. It was all in the original post you responded to.

Then you havent paid attention because I listed a number of players who had better or equal seasons.

All in all, the Patriots have not spend a lot of resources on RB over the years.
Clearly they are a team that has not had and/or retained top caliber RBs, but that doesn't mean top caliber RBs cannot be attained.
It sounds like your argument is the Pats are jinxed at drafting RBs so why bother trying. Of course, thats silly.

 

[Ring 6]

Sometimes everything needs to be spelled out and explained.........It was not an issue that BJGE couldn't BEAT out maroney....it was more that Maroney was a first round pick and BB doesn't like to be proven wrong on his draft.picks....and I also think everyone had such high hopes for maroney and he had such apparent explosive potential....(dungy, shanny et all had him high on draft board)....that BB/PATS kept trying to find the superstar inside LoMo......but it wasn't there....samething happened with chad Jackson....and where is he now?

That is totally wrong. BB has shown zero interest in playing players because of where they were drafted.
Are you kidding with Chad Jackson? He was gone in a heartbeat.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Now you are talking about something different. You are talking about their game plans and how they use their personnel. The fact is that the Pats are a Pass first team and have been with Brady at the helm for 9 of the 11 years.

How do you know that BJGE can't be a feature back?? In fact, I'd say that BJGE has proven he CAN be a feature back if the Pats were willing to commit to the run. If you look at his stats from this year, in all the games where he had 16 or more Runs, he averaged 4.0 YPC or greater. In fact, he averaged 4.89 YPC in those games (166 rushes for 812 yards).

If the Pats used BJGE more and committed more to the run, then it would take pressure off of Brady. But they also would have to get Brady to change his thinking because I've seen him audible out of running situations too numerous times to count, and some of them to the detriment of his teammates..

You mean if Brady wasn't a beast putting up 30 with ease Bengie wouldn't get to pad stats, he is average and a good starter would have even higher numbers in this crazy 10 offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

ROFL, who cares who is easier to beat out.

Well, this sort of ridiculous question pretty much demonstrates the silliness of your argument. YOU brought up the comparison, not me. It's not my fault the comparison was a poor one.

Again you change the subject. brady wasn't ready for starting in the NFL as a rookie. Ridiculous. He was 4th freakin' string. he didn't even beat out Michael Bishop.

I haven't changed the subject at all. I've merely responded to your failed attempts at making a point, even when you've moved the goalposts.

The idea you're putting forth, that players don't develop in their first years, is ludicrous, preposterous and just downright STOOOOOPID.

Ummm.... I never put forth that idea.

 

[Ring 6]

You mean if Brady wasn't a beast putting up 30 with ease Bengie wouldn't get to pad stats, he is average and a good starter would have even higher numbers in this crazy 10 offense.

I think its a valid concern, but by no means is it a certainty.
We don't know how BJGE would perform in an offense that ran against a D that felt it needed to defend the run honestly.
It doesnt mean he cannot, it means 2010 doesnt answer that for us.

 

[alvinnf]

You mean if Brady wasn't a beast putting up 30 with ease Bengie wouldn't get to pad stats, he is average and a good starter would have even higher numbers in this crazy 10 offense.

Lack of commitment to the run game is what loses this team games. When you overly rely on Brady you get beat. See, Cle, NY game 1 and NY game 3. The Jets had 11 db's dressed for the divisional game. They were begging us to run and we were'nt smart enough to oblige.

 

[Ring 6]

Lack of commitment to the run game is what loses this team games. When you overly rely on Brady you get beat. See, Cle, NY game 1 and NY game 3. The Jets had 11 db's dressed for the divisional game. They were begging us to run and we were'nt smart enough to oblige.

No. When you overly rely on Brady you go 14-3.
Your post implies we overrelied on him in those games and the other 14 show what happens if we don't which is clearly wrong.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I think its a valid concern, but by no means is it a certainty.
We don't know how BJGE would perform in an offense that ran against a D that felt it needed to defend the run honestly.
It doesnt mean he cannot, it means 2010 doesnt answer that for us.

I hear that but the concern is NE and if we want to put up stats from Bradys best career stretch then we need to wonder what happens when he cools down, I don't think it is a matter of him not getting enough carries I think it is a matter of not hoping the NE offense dominates before the 4th quarter. I keep seeing people put down Mendenhall and Benson but our line QB and offensive mentallity would have them at 1000 long before the end of a week 17 blowout.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Lack of commitment to the run game is what loses this team games. When you overly rely on Brady you get beat. See, Cle, NY game 1 and NY game 3. The Jets had 11 db's dressed for the divisional game. They were begging us to run and we were'nt smart enough to oblige.

Yea 3/17 games, if we ran it we still lose because Brady was off and the D wasn't good enough when pressured to get stops. As I have said before the D and run game are not good enough to win a close tough game, I think the D should get obviously more attention and money invested but a RB upgrade would make immediate difference. Saying IF Bengie got more carries we are better is absurd because his high carries big stats games were not close low scoring contests, he is a good RB when things click but NYJ would have exposed him the same, we probably don't crack 20 if he was trying to carry the team 2 weeks ago.

 

[upstater1]

Well, this sort of ridiculous question pretty much demonstrates the silliness of your argument. YOU brought up the comparison, not me. It's not my fault the comparison was a poor one.

Nope, never brought up the subject, "Who is easier to beat out." You're the first one who wrote anything remotely like that. as usual, you're running away from what you wrote.

 

[upstater1]

Then you havent paid attention because I listed a number of players who had better or equal seasons.

All in all, the Patriots have not spend a lot of resources on RB over the years.
Clearly they are a team that has not had and/or retained top caliber RBs, but that doesn't mean top caliber RBs cannot be attained.
It sounds like your argument is the Pats are jinxed at drafting RBs so why bother trying. Of course, thats silly.

No it's that I have a higher opinion of BJGE in you. That much should be obvious since I think Mendenhall and Greene would be bad fits here.

 

[Ring 6]

I hear that but the concern is NE and if we want to put up stats from Bradys best career stretch then we need to wonder what happens when he cools down, I don't think it is a matter of him not getting enough carries I think it is a matter of not hoping the NE offense dominates before the 4th quarter. I keep seeing people put down Mendenhall and Benson but our line QB and offensive mentallity would have them at 1000 long before the end of a week 17 blowout.

You lost me there.

 

[Ring 6]

No it's that I have a higher opinion of BJGE in you. That much should be obvious since I think Mendenhall and Greene would be bad fits here.

But we arent discussing the opinion of the player but what the player has done.
I don't know how you would think that Mendenhall would be a bad fit (sounds like slang for wanting to dismiss him) and Greene is not someone I would be proud to use as a standard. He hasn't proven he can be a #1 RB in the league, and was overtaken by a fossil this year.

I must ask again, what are you arguing? What he did this year or your prediction of his career path?

 

[Deus Irae]

Nope, never brought up the subject, "Who is easier to beat out." You're the first one who wrote anything remotely like that. as usual, you're running away from what you wrote.

The quotes prove you wrong, as happens pretty much every time. This sort of silliness from you is why I had you on ignore before. Unfortunately, you haven't changed any for the better.

Seems as if that's where you belong permanently.... so there's no need to draw this out any longer. Off with you.

 

[alvinnf]

Yea 3/17 games, if we ran it we still lose because Brady was off and the D wasn't good enough when pressured to get stops. As I have said before the D and run game are not good enough to win a close tough game, I think the D should get obviously more attention and money invested but a RB upgrade would make immediate difference. Saying IF Bengie got more carries we are better is absurd because his high carries big stats games were not close low scoring contests, he is a good RB when things click but NYJ would have exposed him the same, we probably don't crack 20 if he was trying to carry the team 2 weeks ago.

Go back and read the drive chart from game 2. First 2 series mixing in the run we moved the ball up and down the field. The rest of the game he had 5 carries and our offense sputtered badly. BJGE's biggest asset is having TB as his QB for sure. But he does'nt do his damage in garbage time. He does his damage getting tough yards early in the football game. Those carries in turn make it easier for guys to get open and TB to make plays in the passing game. He stays out of negetive plays which can really put pressure on the offense.

 

[upstater1]

But we arent discussing the opinion of the player but what the player has done.
I don't know how you would think that Mendenhall would be a bad fit (sounds like slang for wanting to dismiss him) and Greene is not someone I would be proud to use as a standard. He hasn't proven he can be a #1 RB in the league, and was overtaken by a fossil this year.

I must ask again, what are you arguing? What he did this year or your prediction of his career path?

I'm talking about upgrading his play.

I wrote originally that of course he can be upgraded. There are a lot better RBs in the league right now. I was just pointing out that the people being mentioned earlier in this thread, Marshawn Lynch, Mendenhall, Greene, are not upgrades. I've watched a lot of Mendenhall, and he dances so much behind the line, and he gets stuffed so often, that the Steelers have found themselves in 2nd and 13 situations too often. He would be a bad fit for that reason. As I wrote in that first post, for sure he's a bigger thret than BJGE, but isn't vision important for a RB. he is not in BJGE's league there.

The point is, if you're going to expend the type of resources to upgrade that the Patriots have spent in the past, you better make damn sure it's an upgrade. I see a guy like Leshore as a reach for this reason.

 

[upstater1]

The quotes prove you wrong, as happens pretty much every time. This sort of silliness from you is why I had you on ignore before. Unfortunately, you haven't changed any for the better.

Seems as if that's where you belong permanently.... so there's no need to draw this out any longer. Off with you.

Your quote said it all. Who was easier to beat out. It's right there for EVERYONE to see. As usual, you pretend and prevaricate. But you wrote it and you know it. I even quoted it in my post so that you wouldn't edit it out originally.