Patriots have 19th ranked offense and 29th ranked defense (YPG)

[MoLewisrocks]

Notice I said one stat.

The fact is football is so complicated it's not condusive to one stat; especially after six games. Also, offense and defense have the input of special teams.

Needless to say, if they had a "situational football" index or rating; that would be most relavent. Maybe out of all the snaps, the percentage you did what you wanted?

Big plays differential is another good one.

You said the one you pointed out was the most relevant. Just not sure what it's relevance is given the CHFF as Kerry likes to portray stats...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I also made a topic about how the Patriots are #1 in PPG and people complained about that too...

People complain about the oddest things.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You said the one you pointed out was the most relevant. Just not sure what it's relevance is given the CHFF as Kerry likes to portray stats...

My origional post has a "seems" to be. Again, this doesn't say it's a definate as gravity, death, and taxes. However, over longer periods with bigger data sets, it does appear to be the best indicator.

If you have a more relavant single stat (outside of points) due share.

Actually, I was over at the the CHFF and they have an article on how San Diego was defying gravity.

Besides, everyone should have their own method of evaluation.

If I don't get to see the game, the first stat I review from a box score is the number of long (outside of FG range) TD drives surrendered.

 

[mgcolby]

Yards per point is the a more meaningful stat IMO. It is second only to PPG. Total Yardage has always seemed like a foolish way to rank teams. Now rushing and passing yards allowed/gained taken seperately are good but not combined to create "total" defense/offense.

 

[Patstopia]

Stats are for Baseball

 

[Disco Volante]

Patriots 2001 defense was ranked 24th in YPG.

 

[Nikolai]

Patriots are also ranked pretty low in terms of offensive snaps per game, and, conversely, one of the higher in terms of defensive snaps. That means less YPG for the offense and more YPG for the defense.

Pats
Yards per game: 325
Total plays: 371 (62 per game)
YPP: 5.3 (14th)

The top ranked Chargers (a ridiculous 6.9 YPP) run 67 plays per game. Only the Rams and Falcons run more. Yards per play is a far more accurate measure of offensive capability IMHO.

2010 NFL Standings, Team & Offensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The Pats D is ranked 23rd in terms of YPP given up by the defense. Only the Cardinals, Seahawks, Titans, and Redskins have more defensive snaps per game than the Pats.

2010 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Metaphors]

I like to use the FO Drive Stats. Particularly points/drive...

Pats are #2 on offense but also have a low turnover rate (4th) and excellent starting position (overall team stat, but they are 4th).

Pats are #26 on defense but mitigate that a bit by good turnover rate (6th) and starting position (again a team stat, 6th).

Overall, the team is 9th in net points/drive. Not great but certainly not bad. Considering the competition faced and the number of youngin's on the field, it is about as good as you can reasonably expect.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Pats will never be considered a top team by yards per game ratings. The Bend but don't break defensive style is not conducive to giving up low yardage. But it is usually fairly effective at keeping points off the board.

The Pats defense is still young and growing. I expect to see them get better as the season progresses. Pats offense still needs to get used to 'life without Moss' but I think they have enough weapons to cope. Just not sure what we're going to do for a 'deep threat' now.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

What is the intent of this thread?

To make Pats fans pessimistic?

To make them feel worried?

Well, I shan't have it, sir!

Being a football fan is supposed to be source of enjoyment. If such an avocation causes one to become pessimistic, or worried, then perhaps it is time to consider other pastimes, hobbies, or diversions...

... such as trolling internet message boards.

 

[Joker]

What is the intent of this thread?

To make Pats fans pessimistic?

To make them feel worried?

Well, I shan't have it, sir!

Being a football fan is supposed to be source of enjoyment. If such an avocation causes one to become pessimistic, or worried, then perhaps it is time to consider other pastimes, hobbies, or diversions...

... such as trolling internet message boards.

shhhhhh....he thinks we don't know he's an undercover Rat troll from (as HE posted) Gang Green who's been driven batsh!t insane by the Patriot success of the past decade.:trolls:

 

[mgteich]

If folks simply don't care about stats except W's and L's, then I suggest that they not post on threads involving stats.

Obviously there are many thousands of fans that care about stats and consider how best to compare teams, offenses and defenses. It is also fine not to want to compare teams and merely root for your team and only look at wins and losses.

I submit that of all the data that can be accumulated, some could be useful in evaluating players, teams, offenses, defenses and teams.

Most would agree that turnovers (perhaps not counting Hail Mary's) are a useful metric. 3rd down efficiency on offense and defense are other useful metrics. Points scored is a useful metric, but can be somewhat misleading when teams run up scores. Yards per carry is a useful metric. YAC's is another. Red zone efficiency is a good stat for both offense and defense.

In short, there are many useful stats for those who choose to want to analyze teams beyond wins and losses.
======================

ONE CONCLUSION
No stats are perfect, but the worst has got to be total offensive or defensive yards. To judge a defense on yards allowed is a joke! Judge them on points allowed, yards per carry, YAC's, opposing QB efficiency, turnovers per carry, QB rushes; anything but yards allowed!!!
=======================

ANOTHER CONCLUSION
Scoring more points per game than anyone in the league is AWESOME, especially given the fact that half of our games were against playoff teams from last year.

 

[rojo8401]

If folks simply don't care about stats except W's and L's, then I suggest that they not post on threads involving stats.

Obviously there are many thousands of fans that care about stats and consider how best to best to compare teams, offenses and defenses. It is also fine not to want to compare teams and merely root for your team and only look at wins and losses.

I submit that of all the data that can be accumulated, some could be useful in evaluating players, teams, offenses, defenses and teams.

Most would agree that turnovers (perhaps not counting Hail Mary's) are a useful metric. 3rd down efficiency on offense and defense are other useful metrics. Points scored is a useful metric, but can be somewhat misleading when teams run up scores. Yards per carry is a useful metric. YAC's is another. Red zone efficiency is a good stat for bot offense and defense.

In short, there are many useful stats for those who choose to want to analyze gteams beyond wins and losses.
======================

ONE CONCLUSION
No stats are perfect, but the worst has got to be total offensive of defensive yards. To judge a defense on yards allowed is a joke! Judge them on points allowed, yards per carry, YAC's, opposing QB efficiency, turnovers per carry, QB rushes; anything but yards allowed!!!
=======================

ANOTHER CONCLUSION
Scoring more points per game than anyone in the league is AWESOME, especially given the fact that half of our games were against playoff teams from last year.

Agreed.

Regarding turnovers, this is definitely a very misleading 'stat' in my mind. As you alluded, hail marys are not forced turnovers. So the mere turnover stat by itself is meaningless without the context of forced versus unforced.

 

[Water Boy]

Patriots 2001 defense was ranked 24th in YPG.

How'd that work out for ya?

 

[Joker]

If folks simply don't care about stats except W's and L's, then I suggest that they not post on threads involving stats.

Obviously there are many thousands of fans that care about stats and consider how best to compare teams, offenses and defenses. It is also fine not to want to compare teams and merely root for your team and only look at wins and losses.

I submit that of all the data that can be accumulated, some could be useful in evaluating players, teams, offenses, defenses and teams.

Most would agree that turnovers (perhaps not counting Hail Mary's) are a useful metric. 3rd down efficiency on offense and defense are other useful metrics. Points scored is a useful metric, but can be somewhat misleading when teams run up scores. Yards per carry is a useful metric. YAC's is another. Red zone efficiency is a good stat for both offense and defense.

In short, there are many useful stats for those who choose to want to analyze teams beyond wins and losses.
======================

ONE CONCLUSION
No stats are perfect, but the worst has got to be total offensive or defensive yards. To judge a defense on yards allowed is a joke! Judge them on points allowed, yards per carry, YAC's, opposing QB efficiency, turnovers per carry, QB rushes; anything but yards allowed!!!
=======================

ANOTHER CONCLUSION
Scoring more points per game than anyone in the league is AWESOME, especially given the fact that half of our games were against playoff teams from last year.

Uh...I understand stats...I don't mind discussing stats...I DO mind false front fans of other teams infesting this Patriots fan board with threads devoted to negative stats after every single game, win or lose. I have literrally hundreds and hundreds of friends and family who are life long Patriots. Not ONE...NONE of them have ever broached negative statistical rankings after a win by the Pats. There's only ONE type of "fan" that does this and it's the hater fan whose teams have not been enjoying success like the Patriots have the last decade.So yeah, when I see a thread like this I'm going to jump in and ask why the O.P.'s first thought was to slam my team with this negativity, when the FIRST stat that should come to mind is "Patriots 5-1", which, BTW, happens to be the most important "stat" there is.

As far as the introduction of stats as a be all and end all as a point of relevant discussion on an open message board, I would suggest the mods construct a stats only page. That way, when a regular,ordinary Joe Patriots fan logs on here ,he doesn't have to wade through all the "Pats real bad!!!! Look at THESE bad stats!!!"threads.

Yes, I am asserting that these negative stat threads are the work of undercover trolls. I say this from life experience. I've NEVER met a fan or had a friend in my entire life, who, after a Pats win, runs to a Pats message board and posts every negative stat he can dig up.I can, however, log on to ANY opposing message board and find these EXACT stats posted by fan/fans of those teams.

As far as stat relevance...well....I can admit they are necessary to run a fantasy football team, but as a real time real life tool, well, one only has to look at a game like the 1995 Browns at Dallas game. Dallas went 12-4 that year...they were 2 TD favorites in this game...Cleveland had 22 players on either I.R. or injured and out. Cleveland won outright 19-17.No amount of compilation, sorting,spreadsheets or any other statistical breakdown saw an outcome like this. Only the fans with a rooting interest...primarily because of the old NFL axiom.."on any given Sunday.."

 

[convertedpatsfan]

While no stat is perfect, I find yards to be one of the most misleading indicators of success. Teams with high passing totals tend to be teams that fall behind quickly.

San Diego is the #1 offense and #1 defense based on YPG, but they're a 2-5 team. They lead the league in passing, and are joined in the top 5 passing teams by 2-5 Denver and 1-5 Dallas.

The Colts are also in the top 5 passing teams and are 4-2. But if you look closer, you'll realize the Colts averaged 393 passing yards per loss and 283 passing yards per win. The most yards Manning has thrown for in a win is 325 against the Broncos, where Kyle Orton threw for 476 yards and lost.

Rounding out the top 5 passing teams are the Saints at 4-3. Brees is averaging 257 yards per win and 333 yards per loss.

There are all sorts of other factors involved. Statistical analysis in football isn't as comprehensive or conclusive as in baseball. But yardage figures are very, very misleading. Currently, only one of the top 5 teams in total offensive yards ranks also in the top 5 for points per game (the Colts), with the Texans very close (top 6 in both). Can be an indicator of success, but considering more than half of the other teams are not, this isn't very conclusive. So while stats can be helpful in understanding certain things, they're not the whole story, especially one statistic by itself.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Some stats I can see as misleading are the QB TD passes

A long 40 yard bomb to a wide open receiver in the endzone is equivalent to a short 4 yard pass at the teams own 5 yard line where the player jukes and fights his way through numerous defenders and obstacles on his way to a 95 yard score....both count the same and are TD passes.

Can't change those stats,but it always was a interesting way of looking at legitimate TD passes and fortunate TD passes that were unexpected.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Some stats I can see as misleading are the QB TD passes

A long 40 yard bomb to a wide open receiver in the endzone is equivalent to a short 4 yard pass at the teams own 5 yard line where the player jukes and fights his way through numerous defenders and obstacles on his way to a 95 yard score....both count the same and are TD passes.

Can't change those stats,but it always was a interesting way of looking at legitimate TD passes and fortunate TD passes that were unexpected.

The 40 yard bomb is easy for even a mutt QB to throw since it's generally the result of good protection and blown coverage... That's why they're all legit as well as fortunate, they all count for 6. What's often misleading are completion % and INT's since the QB doesn't always have control over drops or WR miscues and tips and it's better/smarter to throw it away than take a sack or throw a pick. That's one of the reasons QB rating is a crock. Over emphasis on empty yardage being the other. Aikman used to do a QB rating of his own that showed more promise in that regard, haven't seen it lately.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Yet are 5-1.

I think one of the big keys to this season is the turnovers we've been creating.

Yet we are are barely top 10 in TOs. Teams like the Falcons and Eagles I believe have better offensive/defensive stats (yardage wise) and force more TOs, and still a worse record (against weaker teams too).

So I would say it helps but the Special teams, coaching adjustments, and overall discipline is why we are the best team in football (screw the Jets).

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Patriots are also ranked pretty low in terms of offensive snaps per game, and, conversely, one of the higher in terms of defensive snaps. That means less YPG for the offense and more YPG for the defense.

I have been saying this all year, we never get enough opportunities to prove we are dominant without Moss, and the defense is always out there, look at the onside kick from sunday as an example.

Brady taking longer to throw on 3rd down also kills drives, in the past he would hit welker/faulk quickly.