Chris Mortensen: Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report by 10/31 and 11/24

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

If he was as good as you think then the Pats should have been willing
to fork over Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)

What is "Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)"?Did Jahri Evans get that type of money from the Saints?

 

[Fencer]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

That seems to be exactly what the union is telling him...



Union apparently decided not to make a concession for two guys | ProFootballTalk.com

That's not what I predicted earlier. Can't be right all the time, and in this case glad I wasn't.

Perhaps, also, it was affected by Mankins taking some PR hits. I previously thought the other owners wouldn't back Kraft and the Chargers, but maybe they chose to because they don't want to reward Mankins' PR approach.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I think he and his agent are a pair of greedy bastards. Then he said something unfortunate that means the Pats won't sign him for any amount of money short of a bargain now.

If I'm representing Mankins, I have to believe that I'll get him more money next year on the open market in total than he would have earned in New England playing this year under the tender and with the offer of the new contract ( if reports are to be believed). Otherwise I'm doing him a disservice
because the lost salary in 2010 won't be made up and in the end, he ends up with less money in the aggregate. That ignores the issue of 'respect' and 'principle' if one party feels disrespected. Most times in contracts, it's the principal, not the principle that matters.
In addition, when (if ?) he shows up for the last six games this year, he assumes the full risk of injury which may prevent him from getting that next big contract if he gets injured. Had he signed the offer from the Patriots (*again if reports are to be believed) there would likely have been a large signing bonus.
While it would be nice to have him in uniform, if only for backup depth on the O-line, did he burn bridges, especially with the Kraft's or will BB take the Don Corleone, 'strictly business, nothing personal' approach and welcome him back?

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Who else besides Patriots fans do not consider Mankins an elite guard?

Lots of people, not just Pats fan, do not consider Mankins the top of the pile
(elite). Close, but no cigar. If he was truly 'elite' then you would have teams
tearing down the door for this guy to give him what he wants for a contract.
I suspect if the Pats considered him truly 'elite' then he would be playing. I too,
have faith in the Pats front office insofar as evaluating his worth. Now evaluating
his impact or lack of, that's another story. So far, the Pats way has worked
out. It remains to be seen if it continues to be that way.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps we should have a poll. Who would you rather see starting WHEN Neal goes down?
Mankins?
Ohrnberger?
Wendell?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Lots of people, not just Pats fan, do not consider Mankins the top of the pile
(elite). Close, but no cigar. If he was truly 'elite' then you would have teams
tearing down the door for this guy to give him what he wants for a contract.
I suspect if the Pats considered him truly 'elite' then he would be playing. I too,
have faith in the Pats front office insofar as evaluating his worth. Now evaluating
his impact or lack of, that's another story. So far, the Pats way has worked
out. It remains to be seen if it continues to be that way.

Mankins is in the list of top 5 guards in the NFL. Whether you place him at 1,2,3,4 or 5, he's in the top 5 of 64 starters and all the non-starters. How is that not elite? What number is your criteria for "elite"?

Also, according to Kraft, the Patriots were willing to give him a contract similar to what Mangold, possibly the league's best center, received, and one which was a top guard offer. In other words, if their contract offer is doing the talking for them, the Patriots consider Mankins to be an elite guard.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

If he was truly 'elite' then you would have teams tearing down the door for this guy to give him what he wants for a contract.

By your criteria, Jahri Evans must not be a truly elite guard since teams did not tore down the door to give him what he wanted for a contract.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

By your criteria, Jahri Evans must not be a truly elite guard since teams did not tore down the door to give him what he wanted for a contract.

One asks the question: Why Not?

Maybe because the Saints were the only team that thought he was worth
what he thought he was worth? Or maybe because the Saints hands were
tied and Evans knew it? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

One asks the question: Why Not?

Maybe because the Saints were the only team that thought he was worth
what he thought he was worth? Or maybe because the Saints hands were
tied and Evans knew it? Inquiring minds want to know.

How were the Saints' hands tied? They signed Evans to the contract AFTER the deadline for other teams to make an offer to another team's RFA had passed.

Or maybe teams did not want to give up a 1st and 3rd and then sign Evans to a huge contract. If Evans and Mankins are not elite guards, who are?

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

How were the Saints' hands tied? They signed Evans to the contract AFTER the deadline for other teams to make an offer to another team's RFA had passed.

Or maybe teams did not want to give up a 1st and 3rd and then sign Evans to a huge contract. If Evans and Mankins are not elite guards, who are?

Let me ask you this. What is the going price for an elite guard? We know it
is less than a 1st and 3rd and a huge contract. I would then think the an elite
guard is defined by a huge contract (your definition). By that definition,
Evans is an elite guard, Hutchinson is an elite guard, and Mankins would have
been an elite guard. Yet, he did not see that (supposedly offered) contract as
defining him in the way that he perceived himself and elected to tell the Pats
to GFY. Do you have any idea of what contract would have satisfied Mankins
ego? Top dollar? Do you think he is the top rated guard in the league? I
don't know where you are coming from. Was he worth more money than the
Pats supposedly offered? You seem to think he was worth any price.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Let me ask you this. What is the going price for an elite guard? We know it
is less than a 1st and 3rd and a huge contract. I would then think the an elite guard is defined by a huge contract (your definition).

That is not my definition. In every rating of top guards Mankins is listed near the top. In ratings of the Top 100 players in the NFL Mankins is listed. I consider Mankins one of the top guards in the NFL. I do not think that he is worth any price.

Team game: SN panel selects top 100 NFL players - NFL - Sporting News
Sporting News' NFL Top 100: Colts QB Peyton Manning voted No. 1 by our panel of experts - NFL - Sporting News
Top 105 Players in the NFL: Eight Cowboys Make the Cut | Dallas Cowboys Times

I do think that Mankins was not insulted by the offer but by the Patriots' using the excuse of no CBA to delay his big payday.

I have answered your questions. Why don't you answer mine?
What is "Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)"?
Did Jahri Evans get that type of money from the Saints?
Who do you consider to be elite guards?

 

[patfanken]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

That is not my definition. In every rating of top guards Mankins is listed near the top. In ratings of the Top 100 players in the NFL Mankins is listed. I consider Mankins one of the top guards in the NFL. I do not think that he is worth any price.

Team game: SN panel selects top 100 NFL players - NFL - Sporting News
Sporting News' NFL Top 100: Colts QB Peyton Manning voted No. 1 by our panel of experts - NFL - Sporting News
Top 105 Players in the NFL: Eight Cowboys Make the Cut | Dallas Cowboys Times

I do think that Mankins was not insulted by the offer but by the Patriots' using the excuse of no CBA to delay his big payday.

I have answered your questions. Why don't you answer mine?
What is "Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)"?
Did Jahri Evans get that type of money from the Saints?
Who do you consider to be elite guards?

Yeah, but.... If its true (and no one denies it), that the Pats offered him a LT top 5 contract, how is that "delaying" his big payday? The Pats "seemed" to do exactly what they told him. They made him a big money, top of the wage scale offer, DURING the cap free year.

I still don't see why this get was EVER pissed.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Yeah, but.... If its true (and no one denies it), that the Pats offered him a LT top 5 contract, how is that "delaying" his big payday?

They could have reached the same deal in 2009.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

That is not my definition. In every rating of top guards Mankins is listed near the top. In ratings of the Top 100 players in the NFL Mankins is listed. I consider Mankins one of the top guards in the NFL. I do not think that he is worth any price.

Team game: SN panel selects top 100 NFL players - NFL - Sporting News
Sporting News' NFL Top 100: Colts QB Peyton Manning voted No. 1 by our panel of experts - NFL - Sporting News
Top 105 Players in the NFL: Eight Cowboys Make the Cut | Dallas Cowboys Times

I do think that Mankins was not insulted by the offer but by the Patriots' using the excuse of no CBA to delay his big payday.

I have answered your questions. Why don't you answer mine?
What is "Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)"?

Sorry I haven't relied sooner. I got a virus on my computer and have been
struggling with it the last couple of days.

SH got 49M/7 Years in 2006 from the Vikings. All I was saying is the four
years later I would expect that the 49M would be increased for the top
guard(s) by a considerable amount. What that is specifically (5M or more?)
I would expect it to be a lot more in 2010.

Did Jahri Evans get that type of money from the Saints?

Yes. $56.7M would fit that category for right guards.

Who do you consider to be elite guards?

Left Guards

Steve Hutchinson, Kris Dielman, Eric Steinbach. I would put Mankins (and Evans) in the next tier.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Sigh.
Nobody pays me to post here but I get vexed when I hear paid media pundits like the Big Show guys today state that the Pats can franchise Mankins next year for $7M. They should know what I learned from reading here that the OL franchise # comprises LTs and is in the double digit millions.

Looks as if there is no market for top OGs at top dollar with higher draft picks involved.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Sigh.
Nobody pays me to post here but I get vexed when I hear paid media pundits like the Big Show guys today state that the Pats can franchise Mankins next year for $7M. They should know what I learned from reading here that the OL franchise # comprises LTs and is in the double digit millions.

Looks as if there is no market for top OGs at top dollar with higher draft picks involved.

Well, the collusion that doesn't exist () between the owners hasn't helped player movement or salaries any, either.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Well, the collusion that doesn't exist () between the owners hasn't helped player movement or salaries any, either.

While I don't doubt such can occur it's difficult to believe that if another GM had an offer for Mankins acceptable to BB that both owners wouldn't let it happen, especially at the last minute.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

While I don't doubt such can occur it's difficult to believe that if another GM had an offer for Mankins acceptable to BB that both owners wouldn't let it happen, especially at the last minute.

I don't know if there's been any issue here with Mankins, but we saw almost no movement from a record number of RFAs this year, and we saw the Chargers passing up legitimate offers for Jackson. Barring league-wide lie detector tests of ownerships and front offices, I'll never believe that the owners/front men didn't work that out in advance.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

I don't know if there's been any issue here with Mankins, but we saw almost no movement from a record number of RFAs this year, and we saw the Chargers passing up legitimate offers for Jackson. Barring league-wide lie detector tests of ownerships and front offices, I'll never believe that the owners/front men didn't work that out in advance.

That's the reason I did not disagree with your overall statement. Looks like it to me as well.