Are there any players who have left who....

[ctpatsfan77]

He had 3 with NE.

Plus he made the two kicks with the Patriots that will be the only two kicks NFL fans will remember when he retires.

And he clearly hasn't been better in IND than he was in Foxboro.

 

[shmessy]

And he clearly hasn't been better in IND than he was in Foxboro.

Think Paul McCartney with Wings.

 

[Triumph]

Mike Vrabel is still playing at a very high level in KC. Always seems to be around the ball. While, Cassel has been terrible.

Wiggins had a few good seasons in Minny.

 

[shmessy]

Mike Vrabel is still playing at a very high level in KC. Always seems to be around the ball. While, Cassel has been terrible.

Wiggins had a few good seasons in Minny.

Vrabel has not had more success than with the Pats.

Wiggy is a different story. He did catch a ton more for a couple of years in Minnesota.

 

[Calciumee]

Mike Vrabel is still playing at a very high level in KC. Always seems to be around the ball. While, Cassel has been terrible.

Wiggins had a few good seasons in Minny.

Have you seen their O-Line? If he had a decent O-Line like he had here, he would be alot better.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Have really had more success than they did when they were with the Patriots?

A fun trip down memory lane:

Nick Buoniconti, Phil Olsen, Jim Plunkett, Russ Francis, Bob Golic, Steve McMichael, Irving Fryar, Rich Gannon, Ray Agnew, Chris Singleton, Kevin Turner, Curtis Martin, Christian Peter, Greg Spires, Tebucky Jones, Sean Morey, David Thomas.


Ty Law is debatable. He did have a career high of 10 interceptions the year he left the Pats, but overall I would say he had more success in New England. Seymour does not belong on the list, he had far more success in NE. Same goes for Deion Branch and David Givens. Terry Glenn had some good seasons but was not as successful as he was in NE. Andruzzi did start for two seasons after leaving NE, but he started 72 games in five years with the Pats. Ellis Hobbs and Asante Samuel may be playing but I don't see how they would be considered to be more successful at this time. Daniel Graham is borderline, I'd be slightly inclined to include him as having better years in Denver than in NE. Time will tell with Matt Cassell and Ben Watson.

I suppose you could include Kevin O'Connell on that list, as he went on to become captain of his new team ...


edit: forgot the pride of East Boston; Jermaine Wiggins should be included. Though he'll be far more remembered for the 2001 playoffs, overall he was more successful with the Vikings: started 24 games with 186 receptions for 1659 yards and 6 TD in Minnesota, compared to starting 8 games for the Pats with 30 catches for 336 yards and 5 TD with the Pats.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Have you seen their O-Line? If he had a decent O-Line like he had here, he would be alot better.

Which makes what Pioli's doing there all the more of a head scratcher. Why get Cassel, and then fork over $28M in guaranteed money, and then not do much to actually give him a chance to make plays?

 

[Triumph]

Vrabel has not had more success than with the Pats.

Vrabel is the captain of the KC defense. He stands out when he plays because he gives 100%. His play has hardly dropped off and you could argue that hes playing harder with less talent around him.

It hasnt amounted to wins, but youll be hard pressed to find a KC fan blame Vrabel for that. Hes been one of the very few brights spots on that team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The O.P. is seemingly talking about play level/individual success, especially when you note his Samuel comment. Thomas, Spires and Gaffney are no-doubters. Law went to a Pro Bowl with the Jets after not making it the year before with the Patriots. Asante has 2 Pro Bowls with the Eagles compared to just one with the Patriots. Evans did more in his 6 games in New Orleans than he had in the last two full seasons with the Patriots. Gay was a tough call, and one could call him about even, but I gave his post-Patriots days the nod because of the "we want him" factor.

With that said, let me explain Seymour/Hobbs:

Hobbs is healthy now, and looks to be the favorite to win a starting job alongside Samuel. He'll be playing in a man system, so we'll get to see him under different circumstances.

Seymour is in year 2 of his conversion to a 4-3 system.

No. He clearly isn't. In fact he says so.

Have really had more success than they did when they were with the Patriots? Watching the Curran piece got me to thinking about this topic.
Some might say that Samuel would be one of those, but after a successful 1st season with the Eagles, his play really did drop and according to JK to a point where the Eagles were trying to shop him.

And it's even a stretch to say his first season with the Eagles was successful given he had 4 picks and they finished the season the way they so often have, knocked out of the conference final.

You can't be serious with the pro bowl crap. We all know that's a popularity contest and players often get the nod based on something other than their current performance, like their perception based on bs pre existing hype or pure empty lacking context stats. Asante averaged 16 picks in his last two regular seasons here. Didn't win us a thing... He had 4 and 9 or an agerage of 6.5 per in his first two seasons in Philly. They discovered that even when he had picks in the post season as he usually did here, it didn't translate into a trip to the big dance, let alone a win...just as it never did here (although he had a shot to...).

 

[Triumph]

Have you seen their O-Line? If he had a decent O-Line like he had here, he would be alot better.

Even when Cassel has had blocking hes looked bad.

Cassel and the Chiefs ran the most pitiful 2 minute drill vs Tampa that Ive ever seen. There was plenty of time, but Cassel barely left enough time on the clock to get a FG off. Cassel never even took 1 shot into the end zone from the 20 yard line.

 

[patchick]

Law went to a Pro Bowl with the Jets after not making it the year before with the Patriots.

Law was on IR the year before! He had previously made 4 Pro Bowls and was named All Pro twice with the Pats. You really can't say he had "more success" after leaving.

Evans did more in his 6 games in New Orleans than he had in the last two full seasons with the Patriots.

Look again at the numbers and you might be surprised. He had more receptions with the Saints, but many fewer carries -- less than 1 per game. He averaged 2.5 carries per game with the Patriots. And compare Evans' 6-game first Patriots season with his 6-game first Saints season:

Patriots - 51 carries, 192 yds; 10 receptions, 88 yards
Saints - 5 carries, 16 yds; 10 receptions, 70 yards

I don't see how you can look at those Saints numbers and conclude he's had more success since leaving New England.

 

[emoney_33]

One of the things that the Patriots are pretty damn excellent at is valuation of players that have played for them.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A fun trip down memory lane:

Nick Buoniconti, Phil Olsen, Jim Plunkett, Russ Francis, Bob Golic, Steve McMichael, Irving Fryar, Rich Gannon, Ray Agnew, Chris Singleton, Kevin Turner, Curtis Martin, Christian Peter, Greg Spires, Tebucky Jones, Sean Morey, David Thomas.


Ty Law is debatable. He did have a career high of 10 interceptions the year he left the Pats, but overall I would say he had more success in New England. Seymour does not belong on the list, he had far more success in NE. Same goes for Deion Branch and David Givens. Terry Glenn had some good seasons but was not as successful as he was in NE. Andruzzi did start for two seasons after leaving NE, but he started 72 games in five years with the Pats. Ellis Hobbs and Asante Samuel may be playing but I don't see how they would be considered to be more successful at this time. Daniel Graham is borderline, I'd be slightly inclined to include him as having better years in Denver than in NE. Time will tell with Matt Cassell and Ben Watson.

I suppose you could include Kevin O'Connell on that list, as he went on to become captain of his new team ...


edit: forgot the pride of East Boston; Jermaine Wiggins should be included. Though he'll be far more remembered for the 2001 playoffs, overall he was more successful with the Vikings: started 24 games with 186 receptions for 1659 yards and 6 TD in Minnesota, compared to starting 8 games for the Pats with 30 catches for 336 yards and 5 TD with the Pats.

Generally speaking when we undertake these exercises in context we are discussing the Patriots in the BB era.

Empty stats on losing teams don't equal success. I loved Wiggie, but he was what he was and that's why Bill moved on. And you'd be right about Graham if not for the fact that you're wrong...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Yeah I don't see how you can put Law in this category. He was good afterwards but in NE he spent years among the elite CBs in the league and was a huge part of 2 SB rings.

Asante, Woody, Seymour, Gay have probably matched their level of play but I haven't seen significant improvement.

To answer the question really just David Thomas IMO. Spires was before BB wasn't he.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah I don't see how you can put Law in this category. He was good afterwards but in NE he spent years among the elite CBs in the league and was a huge part of 2 SB rings.

Asante, Woody, Seymour, Gay have probably matched their level of play but I haven't seen significant improvement.

To answer the question really just David Thomas IMO. Spires was before BB wasn't he.

BB let Spires move on after the 2000 season...BBs 1st

In looking at his numbers, Spires had 6 sacks for the Pats in 2000 (I'd take that in a heartbeat!) and 4 and 4 the nest two years. He had 8 in 2004 but did win a SB.

I guess it's fair to say that he enjoyed more success after he left the team.

 

[Deus Irae]

No. He clearly isn't. In fact he says so.

Yes, he clearly is, as reflected by the Samuel example.

 

[shmessy]

Vrabel is the captain of the KC defense. He stands out when he plays because he gives 100%. His play has hardly dropped off and you could argue that hes playing harder with less talent around him.

It hasnt amounted to wins, but youll be hard pressed to find a KC fan blame Vrabel for that. Hes been one of the very few brights spots on that team.

You misread my statement.

He has not been better in KC than he was here.

Not saying he dropped off any.

 

[shmessy]

BB let Spires move on after the 2000 season...BBs 1st

In looking at his numbers, Spires had 6 sacks for the Pats in 2000 (I'd take that in a heartbeat!) and 4 and 4 the nest two years. He had 8 in 2004 but did win a SB.

I guess it's fair to say that he enjoyed more success after he left the team.

Sacks aren't 100% of the job description.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

One of the things that the Patriots are pretty damn excellent at is valuation of players that have played for them.

And another is not allowing emotion or desperation or hype to cloud their discipline in setting those values and not exceeding them because of the effect that can have across the roster going forward. Bill seldom lets a player go over contract concerns because he thinks he sucks. More often than not it's because the player believes he's worth more than Bill legitimately believes he is and he's not going to overpay to retain him at the expense of some other facet of his roster. Poor Ty Law wasn't even worth what we offered him to remain here to any of the other teams he played for, though he might have been worth it here because of what this team was... He certainly wasn't worth more than we offered, which was what he wanted but never did see. And he may have derailed or at least slowed his HOF career path to his dotage in the process or proving that while talent matters so does system and setting.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sacks aren't 100% of the job description.

Agreed, but it does identify an ability to pressure the pocket.