The Jets suck (merged)

[Deus Irae]

EXAMPLE 1: Sure TJ got cut but the deal they gave to LT is actually more than what TJ signed for in KC. The Jets weren't the only ones who thought that TJs real market value was a lot less than what he was due to earn. Not to mention Jones looked horrible in the champ game.

Jones looked "horrible" in a game or two throughout the season. Thomlinson looked horrible all season long. That's the part that Jets fans keep overlooking in their scramble to get the LdT kneepads.

EXAMPLE 2: The Jets didn't save much at all by cutting Faneca. Fail to mention the 6 blocks missed was also the league high for a guard.

Faneca was your best run blocking o-lineman, and was by no means your worst pass blocking lineman. You're replacing him with "Bob, from 123rd street", and hoping it's an upgrade, all because you want to save money. It's the type of stupidity that comes with organizations that are reacting rather than thinking.

Patriots fans know this full well, because we saw the same type of stupidities out of "our" front office last year.

EXAMPLE 3: They signed a player they didn't really need. Not sure how spending money for additional players makes them cheap.

To be fair, while Andy's characterization was over-the-top, you spent a lot of money on a player you "didn't really need", while ignoring players that would have been of greater value.

Refresh my memory and tell me who the Pats went out and signed this year.

Absolutely valid point, since the Patriots mostly just re-signed their own players.

Oh I forgot this is the same team who has their star all world QB take less pay so they can surround him with mediocre players.

The Patriot system has made them the #1 team of the new millennium. Rolling your eyes at it is just stupid. I can understand disagreements with the system on a case-by-case basis, but your blanket comment here is just ridiculous.

 

[Rexorcism]

The Patriot system has made them the #1 team of the new millennium. Rolling your eyes at it is just stupid. I can understand disagreements with the system on a case-by-case basis, but your blanket comment here is just ridiculous.

I didn't want LT here at all and I would have welcomed Jones back but I am holding out hope that the Chargers line and shift in offensive philosophy was part of the reason for LT's vast decline. Time will tell.

True, the Patriot model made them quite a dynasty. The problem I see now is while Brady sacrificed his earning potential for the better of the team I don't see the front office coming through on their end of the deal and surrounding him with talent. Aside from getting Moss and Welker the year after Brady played a season with a rag tag group of recievers, what have they really surrounded him with? You would think that after Welker blew his knee out they might grab someone of more notoriety than Tory Holt? They could have had Holmes for 12 games by giving up one of their billion picks.

And yes Faneca was our worst pass blocking liabilty but still a very good run blocker.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Look I like Sanchez, and Payton had him as a #1 pick on his draft board. I really think you have a possibility for a big time QB. I also like Rex, he belongs in NY, and will defiantly create a very cool rivalry between the the Jets and Patriots, with his sayings.

But Sanchez needs to zone the hype out, stop interviewing with the NY press, and work on his fundamentals. As soon as the Jets lost Green in the Colts game it became a passing game and they didn't do well. That cant happen.
Sanchez needs to work overtime with his receivers and get Rex to even out the passing run mix. You cant start cold throwing in the 3rd quarter.

I mean think about it our Saints defense kicked the snot out of this kid on a high of 3-0 , and our defense sucks, and our offense lost that game.

Rex is in his 1st year and so is Sanchez, the Jets fans need to give them some breathing room for error and let them work things out. It might be 2-3 years, but your on the right track and making the right moves.

The Patriots are an established threat to the entire NFL. They still made it to the playoffs while having major injuries, thats nuts and good coaching. And from watching their acquisitions this year their team is looking pretty solid again.
You have to put Brady above Sanchez and BB above Rex at this point, based on accomplishment and experience. I think next season is going to very interesting, because it will show who is improving,consistent, or declining as a one shot wonder.


Of course they have to beat the "World Champion Saints" ( sorry im going to suck this in as long as I can before the season starts, is that wrong? ) in the playoffs next year.

Nice post.

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't want LT here at all and I would have welcomed Jones back but I am holding out hope that the Chargers line and shift in offensive philosophy was part of the reason for LT's vast decline. Time will tell.

Hope is fine, but don't expect fans of other teams to have that same hope. Also, don't expect fans not to call you on that move when you're defending the Jets in a "Jets suck" thread.

True, the Patriot model made them quite a dynasty. The problem I see now is while Brady sacrificed his earning potential for the better of the team I don't see the front office coming through on their end of the deal and surrounding him with talent. Aside from getting Moss and Welker the year after Brady played a season with a rag tag group of recievers, what have they really surrounded him with? You would think that after Welker blew his knee out they might grab someone of more notoriety than Tory Holt? They could have had Holmes for 12 games by giving up one of their billion picks.

1.) Brady didn't sacrifice earning potential. He sacrificed actual earnings, but those are not the same thing.

2.) I'd say that "aside from getting Moss and Welker" is a hell of an aside.

3.) They brought in Galloway, who simply didn't work out. They brought in Fred Taylor (injured), Kyle Brady (should have retired a year earlier), Donte Stallworth (helpful, but limited), and more. You're confusing the reality of bringing in players who've not been tremendous with not bringing in players at all.

4.) This team couldn't have handled Holmes. Last season was a disaster in the locker room, but pretty much all accounts. Holmes is known as a locker room problem, above and beyond his suspension issues. The player you should have focused on here would be Boldin, who's biggest problem has always been unhappiness with his contract.

And yes Faneca was our worst pass blocking liabilty but still a very good run blocker.

I don't think that Faneca was the Jets worst pass blocker, and I think this season will probably demonstrate that.

 

[Ring 6]

EXAMPLE 1: Sure TJ got cut but the deal they gave to LT is actually more than what TJ signed for in KC. The Jets weren't the only ones who thought that TJs real market value was a lot less than what he was due to earn. Not to mention Jones looked horrible in the champ game.

EXAMPLE 2: The Jets didn't save much at all by cutting Faneca. Fail to mention the 6 blocks missed was also the league high for a guard.

EXAMPLE 3: They signed a player they didn't really need. Not sure how spending money for additional players makes them cheap.

EXAMPLE 4: Kerry Rhodes was benched during the season because he couldn't keep up with the defensive game plan. He was a non factor for the majority of the season so i'm not sure why they would want to keep his contract. If Kerry had a very good year your argument would hold more water.

EXAMPLE 5: Again, they went out and got these players whom they really didn't need. Not sure how spending more makes them cheap.

Refresh my memory and tell me who the Pats went out and signed this year.

Oh I forgot this is the same team who has their star all world QB take less pay so they can surround him with mediocre players.

1) What Jones signed for is irrelevant, the contract they dumped is. And do you have a link to prove that, btw?
2) Didnt save much? Wasnt he due to make something like 8 mill? I think you are talking about cap cost and accelerating his signing bonus and that is irrelevant, because there is no cap....we are talking about payroll
3) They signed him for cheap $ to make a headline and disguise the fact that they were salary dumping.
4) Again you are revising history to fit with the company line. Rhiodes was benched for 2 games in the middle of the season. IOverall he played only 101 fewer snaps than Revis did, and almost 3 times as many as his backup. In the playoffs he played every snap but 2. He was your starter and you dumped his salary.
5) No. The point is that the only players they acquired were low cost players. When you cut high salaries guys and acquire only low salary guys you are cutting payroll. They have to field a team, so the cheap way to field a team is to trade for guys in their rookie contract where their salary is low and their bonus is already paid.

The Patriots spend a ton of money retaining their own players. Wilfork and Bodden received 2 of the largest FA contracts in the market.
There is a difference between dumping your high priced guys and signing lower cost FAs and keeping and resigning your high priced guys and adding low cost FAs.

You are critcizing the strategy that produced the team of the decade?
Let me get this straight. You are saying the Jet approach is good and the Patriot approach is bad? Based on what?

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know if you're being serious about this or not, but you're lending credence to the people who call the Pats cheap for all of the same reasons.

Not at all the same reasons. When did the Patriots dump salary, like the Jets did with Jones, Rhodes and Faneca?
I dont remember the last time we cut a guy to save money, I guess it was Milloy in 03????? Seymour is the closest and that was a trade, and the cost of that season was not excessive at all.
The Patriots have not dumped good players with high salaries to replace them with lesser, cheaper players.
The Patriots have not made a habit of trading for players in the last year of their rookie contract and not resigning them to long term deals. They have done the opposite.
Holmes has 1 year left, and isn't being offered a new deal, we resigned Moss when we got him and gave Welker a long term deal. There is a major philosophical difference there.

Just because people incoorectly assert the Patriots are cheap doesn't mean showing cheap actions by other teams ACTUALLY HAPPENING resembles anything the PAtriots have done. Look at the facts, not the hype.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Stop it. You stop it now!

Woodson/Asomugha > Revis

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not at all the same reasons. When did the Patriots dump salary, like the Jets did with Jones, Rhodes and Faneca?
I dont remember the last time we cut a guy to save money, I guess it was Milloy in 03????? Seymour is the closest and that was a trade, and the cost of that season was not excessive at all.
The Patriots have not dumped good players with high salaries to replace them with lesser, cheaper players.
The Patriots have not made a habit of trading for players in the last year of their rookie contract and not resigning them to long term deals. They have done the opposite.
Holmes has 1 year left, and isn't being offered a new deal, we resigned Moss when we got him and gave Welker a long term deal. There is a major philosophical difference there.

Just because people incoorectly assert the Patriots are cheap doesn't mean showing cheap actions by other teams ACTUALLY HAPPENING resembles anything the PAtriots have done. Look at the facts, not the hype.

I agree, Andy. BB won't cut for the sake of cutting to save a buck. BB will pay as long as he sees the production in alignment with the pay. Milloy was cut b/c he was an older player who was brutal in 2002 (0 sacks, ff, INTs, fumble recoveries IIRC). Sey was still very good, but not playing to his deal. Same with AD(although not very good).

Ty Law was still making 10m a year but worth every penny up until he got hurt.

 

[Rexorcism]

Not at all the same reasons. When did the Patriots dump salary, like the Jets did with Jones, Rhodes and Faneca?
I dont remember the last time we cut a guy to save money, I guess it was Milloy in 03????? Seymour is the closest and that was a trade, and the cost of that season was not excessive at all.
The Patriots have not dumped good players with high salaries to replace them with lesser, cheaper players.
The Patriots have not made a habit of trading for players in the last year of their rookie contract and not resigning them to long term deals. They have done the opposite.
Holmes has 1 year left, and isn't being offered a new deal, we resigned Moss when we got him and gave Welker a long term deal. There is a major philosophical difference there.

Just because people incoorectly assert the Patriots are cheap doesn't mean showing cheap actions by other teams ACTUALLY HAPPENING resembles anything the PAtriots have done. Look at the facts, not the hype.

Lost in all this blabber is the fact that the Jets were heavily limited under the final 8 restrictions. They were only allowed to sign one FA (Taylor) since one of their own (Feeley) had left. Not to mention rules regarding the limit of the contract that could be offered to Taylor, hence the cheap money deal. The fact the Jets were able to make as many moves as they did under these restrictions is admirable.

In conclusion, you bash the Jets for not spending money when they haven't been able go after big FA's. The only options that were open to them were players who had been cut (LT) and players aquired in trade (Cro and Holmes). Also, in regards to resigning their own players, most teams in the league have shied away from this since the future of the CBA is unknown. Most teams in the league have actuallly shied away from spending money at all outside of Chicago.

 

[Rexorcism]

Woodson/Asomugha > Revis

Yeah but Revis has the better beard.

 

[Rexorcism]

1) What Jones signed for is irrelevant, the contract they dumped is. And do you have a link to prove that, btw?
2) Didnt save much? Wasnt he due to make something like 8 mill? I think you are talking about cap cost and accelerating his signing bonus and that is irrelevant, because there is no cap....we are talking about payroll
3) They signed him for cheap $ to make a headline and disguise the fact that they were salary dumping.
4) Again you are revising history to fit with the company line. Rhiodes was benched for 2 games in the middle of the season. IOverall he played only 101 fewer snaps than Revis did, and almost 3 times as many as his backup. In the playoffs he played every snap but 2. He was your starter and you dumped his salary.
5) No. The point is that the only players they acquired were low cost players. When you cut high salaries guys and acquire only low salary guys you are cutting payroll. They have to field a team, so the cheap way to field a team is to trade for guys in their rookie contract where their salary is low and their bonus is already paid.

The Patriots spend a ton of money retaining their own players. Wilfork and Bodden received 2 of the largest FA contracts in the market.
There is a difference between dumping your high priced guys and signing lower cost FAs and keeping and resigning your high priced guys and adding low cost FAs.

You are critcizing the strategy that produced the team of the decade?
Let me get this straight. You are saying the Jet approach is good and the Patriot approach is bad? Based on what?

1) Its really not irrelevant at all. Why pay players more than their worth? The Patriots would agree whole heartidly.

2) Faneca was due 7.5 mil with 5.25 guaranteed. They saved a total of 2.25 mil.

3) Salary dumping by adding salary. I think you're on to something.

4) Why keep a player around with a big contract if he is outspoken and doesn't fit with the game plan? If you are benching the guy anyway why pay him to stay?

5) See my previous post regarding the final 8 rules.

 

[Ring 6]

Lost in all this blabber is the fact that the Jets were heavily limited under the final 8 restrictions. They were only allowed to sign one FA (Taylor) since one of their own (Feeley) had left. Not to mention rules regarding the limit of the contract that could be offered to Taylor, hence the cheap money deal. The fact the Jets were able to make as many moves as they did under these restrictions is admirable.

In conclusion, you bash the Jets for not spending money when they haven't been able go after big FA's. The only options that were open to them were players who had been cut (LT) and players aquired in trade (Cro and Holmes). Also, in regards to resigning their own players, most teams in the league have shied away from this since the future of the CBA is unknown. Most teams in the league have actuallly shied away from spending money at all outside of Chicago.

Thats doesnt address the salary dumping. Hard to believe they would sign FAs if they could since they are salary dumping and wont sign the players they acquired, Holmes and Cromartie to long term deals.
We aren't talking about RESIGNING their own players we are talking about cutting high priced players that are under contract.

 

[Ring 6]

1) Its really not irrelevant at all. Why pay players more than their worth? The Patriots would agree whole heartidly.

2) Faneca was due 7.5 mil with 5.25 guaranteed. They saved a total of 2.25 mil.

3) Salary dumping by adding salary. I think you're on to something.

4) Why keep a player around with a big contract if he is outspoken and doesn't fit with the game plan? If you are benching the guy anyway why pay him to stay?

5) See my previous post regarding the final 8 rules.

1) When you are dumping salary what the guy signs for later is irrelevant, you cut him because you didn't want to pay him.
2) Thats 2.25 mill plus Jones and we are up to 8mill, how much was Rodes due to make?
3) Salary dumping is cutting players, signing cheaper ones to replace them is part of the strategy, you have to have 53 of them
4) He wasnt benched, he played all but 2 snaps in the playoffs. IF his contract were smaller he would still be there because at the end of the season he was your unquestioned starter
5)See my response

 

[Brady2Welker]

So, I was reading an ESPN magazine article (I Believe it was ESPN) where the author of the article was dribbling all over Revis saying that he is a bigger defensive player in terms of changing offensive game plans than "Deion Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis". I think that the Jets hype machine is going a bit too far on this one.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not at all the same reasons. When did the Patriots dump salary, like the Jets did with Jones, Rhodes and Faneca?
I dont remember the last time we cut a guy to save money, I guess it was Milloy in 03????? Seymour is the closest and that was a trade, and the cost of that season was not excessive at all.
The Patriots have not dumped good players with high salaries to replace them with lesser, cheaper players.
The Patriots have not made a habit of trading for players in the last year of their rookie contract and not resigning them to long term deals. They have done the opposite.
Holmes has 1 year left, and isn't being offered a new deal, we resigned Moss when we got him and gave Welker a long term deal. There is a major philosophical difference there.

Just because people incoorectly assert the Patriots are cheap doesn't mean showing cheap actions by other teams ACTUALLY HAPPENING resembles anything the PAtriots have done. Look at the facts, not the hype.

Trade or not, Seymour was dumped coming off of a career season in which he was finally healthy. That it came with the added bonus of a first round pick doesn't make it any less of a salary dump. But that wasn't my original point. My point was that anybody that wanted to could draw parallels between Example 1 and Asante, Example 2 and Logan Mankins, Example 3 and pretty much any JAG or above older free agent we've brought in over the years (I guess I could go with Joey Galloway as a most recent example here), and Example 4 and Seymour.

In all, after all of the trolls coming in here and making argument after argument about how the Pats are cheap, perhaps going out and calling a team that has overspent to the point where it's salary cap is nearing crippled status "cheap" is not the way to go.

 

[Rexorcism]

Thats doesnt address the salary dumping. Hard to believe they would sign FAs if they could since they are salary dumping and wont sign the players they acquired, Holmes and Cromartie to long term deals.
We aren't talking about RESIGNING their own players we are talking about cutting high priced players that are under contract.

So because you assume the Jets wouldn't go after FA's makes it fact?

You do remember only a few seasons ago the Jets signed everyone under the sun. They gave Faneca and Scott two of the biggest contracts for their positions.


Letting go of players who don't play up to their contracts doesn't automatically mean a team is "salary dumping", its just standard operating procedure. Or are we to assume that since the Pats cut AD and his large contract they are salary dumping?

 

[Rexorcism]

Trade or not, Seymour was dumped coming off of a career season in which he was finally healthy. That it came with the added bonus of a first round pick doesn't make it any less of a salary dump. But that wasn't my original point. My point was that anybody that wanted to could draw parallels between Example 1 and Asante, Example 2 and Logan Mankins, Example 3 and pretty much any JAG or above older free agent we've brought in over the years (I guess I could go with Joey Galloway as a most recent example here, and Example 4 and Seymour.

In all, after all of the trolls coming in here and making argument after argument about how the Pats are cheap, perhaps going out and calling a team that has overspent to the point where it's salary cap is nearing crippled status "cheap" is not the way to go.

This guy gets it.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A note to Jets fans reading and posting in this particular thread.

This is an off season thread. It's allowed to be looser in content and comment than in season threads where football is actually discussed. This is a fun thread. Comments usually discouraged here in season are allowed because frankly we're wicked bored. Just FYI.

Oh, and a GFY to you all!

 

[Kontradiction]

 

[Kontradiction]

Jets suck.