The Jets suck (merged)

[Patriot 37]

The funniest part of eifmp's post "Mark Sanchez's '10 stats: 3200 yards passing---23 touchdowns---11 interceptions."

Since you having been using TD to INT ratio as a measuring stick I'll stay with that. You realize that even though Sanchez's 12 TDs and 20 INTs were the 2nd worst of any full time starter in the NFL last year, you have him surpassing all to QBs listed in you last post (including Ryan and Flacco) as well as Peyton's and Brady's in 2nd year TD/INT %.

It would be like me predicting Ron Brace is going to 8 sacks or Brandon Tate is going to have 15 Tds catches. This why Jets fans are considered to be the NFL's dumbest.

 

[Patjew]

Fasion bags suck.

 

[fair catch fryar]

...so do the jets.

 

[averywhitehall]

The funniest part of eifmp's post "Mark Sanchez's '10 stats: 3200 yards passing---23 touchdowns---11 interceptions."

Since you having been using TD to INT ratio as a measuring stick I'll stay with that. You realize that even though Sanchez's 12 TDs and 20 INTs were the 2nd worst of any full time starter in the NFL last year, you have him surpassing all to QBs listed in you last post (including Ryan and Flacco) as well as Peyton's and Brady's in 2nd year TD/INT %.

It would be like me predicting Ron Brace is going to 8 sacks or Brandon Tate is going to have 15 Tds catches. This why Jets fans are considered to be the NFL's dumbest.

I'm not dumb...I'm a dreamer. Why cant you let me have that?

 

[averywhitehall]

There is that whole math thing again. It doesn't equate to either Manning or Russell. Based on what you presented he has an 11% chance of being Manning and an 89% chance of being those other guys. And that is without challenging your selection of who is good in their second year. Really the only player that could be qualified as having a "good" season is Manning and even he had a 52% completion percentage and a mediocre rating in the 70%s.

Sanchez might turn out to have a good or great season, but history sure isn't with him on that one.

The questions wasn't if they were good or not. It was a question of if they sucked as a rookie and improved in their second season. Alex Smith going from 1 TD 11 INT as a rookie to 16 & 16 respectively is the definition of 'sucked as a rookie and improved in their second season'.

But your analysis of my post is very fair & impartial. Which is what I look for when I talk football. (My projected Mark Sanchez stats for 2010-2011 season not withstanding).

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm not dumb...I'm a dreamer. Why cant you let me have that?

Because the Green Beans are a nightmare? :scared::scared::scared::scared:

 

[averywhitehall]

Because the Green Beans are a nightmare? :scared::scared::scared::scared:

I'm sure you can come up with some better quips/one-liners/zings than that!

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm sure you can come up with some better quips/one-liners/zings than that!

Dreamer ... nightmare -- I thought that one was pretty good! :rocker:

I always like to ask this of Jersey fans because there are few compelling responses that make sense: Why are you a fan?

 

[Ring 6]

I am not ignorant...far from it.

All right...let's dive deep into this one. I love the challenge!

A) I'm not trying to say the fact that he sucked as a rookie automatically means he is going to be better during his second year. I'm saying that you (nor any other fan) should judge a rookie QB on the basis of him bringing his team back from a double digit deficit against top QB's. Not too many rookies, if any at all, have done that in NFL history. So why should Sanchez be the first to do so? Why must he be judged based on something that most rookie QB's are expected not to succeed at?


B) You've given me a difficult challenge to name all the rookie QB's who've come in + started as rookies + sucked + gotten better the next year.

First of all: when you say the player 'sucked as rookies' did you mean compared to other rookies or compared to the average NFL quarterback?

But I digress...

There are only a handful of QB's who were top half of first round or higher (16th pick or higher) drafted since 2000 (10 years ago) who even played the as a rookie.

2000 Draft: No QB's taken in top half...only first round QB was Pennington (who sat)

2001 Draft: Michael Vick started 8 games and threw 2 TD and 3 INT's... Improved to 16 & 8 respectively next season.

2002 Draft: Joey Harrington & David Carr...two points for you.

2003 Draft: Carson Palmer (DNP) Byron Leftwhich went from 14 TD 16 INT as a rookie to 15 & 10 respectively next season.

2004 Draft: Eli Manning started 7 of his 9 games as a rookie. Went from 6 TD 9 INT to 24 & 17 respectively next season. Phillip Rivers (DNP). Big Ben (didn't suck and doesn't qualify into debate)

2005 Draft: Alex Smith started 7 of 9 games he played in. Went from 1 TD 11 INT to 16 & 16 respectively next season. Aaron Rodgers & Jason Campbell were from the same draft but barely touched the field.

2006 Draft: Vince Young (Made the pro-bowl as a rookie and does qualify into debate)
Matt Leinart (another point for you) Jay Cutler (played 5 games 9 TD 5 INT so he doesn't qualify)

2007 Draft: JaMarcus Russell (another point for you), Brady Quinn also drafted but played 1 game.

2008 Matt Ryan & Joe Flacco (does not qualify)

So to sum it up:

I get points for: Leftwhich, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, & Michael Vick

You get points for: David Carr, Joey Harrington, JaMarcus Russell & Matt Leinart.

So based on the challenge you threw down I guess we're even and it can go either way. Sanchez can either go the way of JaMarcus Russell or go the way of Eli Manning.

Have a nice night.

Well, that certainly didnt help your cause.
So for 10 years of 1st round QBs that sucked as rookies the best you've got is Alex Smith?
Leftwich was better in every category as a rookie than Sanchez. You cant use him as a comparison, he completed 57% of his passes had more TDs, and Yards and less Ints. His 'improvement' to year 2, or ever was negligible.
There is an example of a rookie who was head and shoulders better than Sanchez and never progressed any further.
Eli Manning played less than half the time as a rookie then completed 52% of his passes in his 2nd year. Again, not proving that playing your rookie season and sucking is a path to improvement in year 2.
Vick threw 113 passes as a rookie then completed 54.9% in year 2.
Alex Smith was pathetic as a rookie, and very bad as a 2nd year guy. But he's your best hope.

So its pretty much a whitewash.
Look at those QBs who fit the mold of being a high pick who started as a rookie and played poorly, and name which ones that had a 2nd season that would qualify as one you would be happy with from Sanchez at this point.

In other words, the scenario you are suggesting is likely to happen (and its not just you its all Jets fans saying 'duh, you dont think he will be better in his 2nd year') has never happened in at least the last 10 years.

 

[averywhitehall]

Well, that certainly didnt help your cause.
So for 10 years of 1st round QBs that sucked as rookies the best you've got is Alex Smith?
Leftwich was better in every category as a rookie than Sanchez. You cant use him as a comparison, he completed 57% of his passes had more TDs, and Yards and less Ints. His 'improvement' to year 2, or ever was negligible.
There is an example of a rookie who was head and shoulders better than Sanchez and never progressed any further.
Eli Manning played less than half the time as a rookie then completed 52% of his passes in his 2nd year. Again, not proving that playing your rookie season and sucking is a path to improvement in year 2.
Vick threw 113 passes as a rookie then completed 54.9% in year 2.
Alex Smith was pathetic as a rookie, and very bad as a 2nd year guy. But he's your best hope.

So its pretty much a whitewash.
Look at those QBs who fit the mold of being a high pick who started as a rookie and played poorly, and name which ones that had a 2nd season that would qualify as one you would be happy with from Sanchez at this point.

In other words, the scenario you are suggesting is likely to happen (and its not just you its all Jets fans saying 'duh, you dont think he will be better in his 2nd year') has never happened in at least the last 10 years.

Well you limited it to the last ten year and only first round picks. Pretty sure with those limitations I wasn't going to have much of a shot. However, you have a good point.

As far as a high pick who stunk his rookie season and played better the second season...I wouldn't mind if Sanchez posted Eli Manning second year numbers. 52% completion percentage but 24 TD, 17 INT, & 3762 yards for a second year QB with only 1 year of starting in college...I'd take that yes.

But you're right pretty much a whitewash though.

 

[averywhitehall]

Dreamer ... nightmare -- I thought that one was pretty good! :rocker:

I always like to ask this of Jersey fans because there are few compelling responses that make sense: Why are you a fan?

I was always into basketball as a kid. HUGE Knicks fan until they started to stink, which was 2001; the last time the Knicks won a playoff game. My aunt was a Jets fan and whenever I went over her house we watched the games together. But it was only around 2002 when I started to actively root for the team and not just watch the games with my aunt.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I was always into basketball as a kid. HUGE Knicks fan until they started to stink, which was 2001; the last time the Knicks won a playoff game. My aunt was a Jets fan and whenever I went over her house we watched the games together. But it was only around 2002 when I started to actively root for the team and not just watch the games with my aunt.

A fairweathered New York fan?

We're all shocked!

 

[Ring 6]

Well you limited it to the last ten year and only first round picks. Pretty sure with those limitations I wasn't going to have much of a shot. However, you have a good point.

As far as a high pick who stunk his rookie season and played better the second season...I wouldn't mind if Sanchez posted Eli Manning second year numbers. 52% completion percentage but 24 TD, 17 INT, & 3762 yards for a second year QB with only 1 year of starting in college...I'd take that yes.

But you're right pretty much a whitewash though.

10 years and first round picks was for the sake of similarity.
Go ahead and find whatever examples you want. Essentially you are saying that you believe Sanchez will be a good QB, and likely THIS year.
I am fine with you using whatever examples you wish to find a guy who played as poorly asSanchez in his first full season as a starter and then became good, both right away and in the long run. The thing is though just finding a couple doesn't address the liklihood, so you have to included the ones in the same grouping that never became any good also.

 

[Tunescribe]

My aunt was a Jets fan and whenever I went over her house we watched the games together. But it was only around 2002 when I started to actively root for the team and not just watch the games with my aunt.

That's actually a sweet story. But you need to bring your aunt onto this messageboard so we can interrogate her as well. You always are welcome to switch allegiance and join us. You'll save a ton on antacid tablets.

 

[ausbacker]

 

[fair catch fryar]

Spelling Bee Judge: "Okay now Johnny, for the 5th grade spelling bee championship spell the word, SUCK."

Little Johnny: Thinks really hard for a minute"I'm pretty sure I know this one, but could you give me the definition please and use it in a sentence?"

Spelling Bee Judge: "To be objectionable or inadequate of winning a championship. You already know that your favorite team will suck and will never win the "big game".

Little Johhny: "Oh okay, thank you. That's what I thought.
SUCK...J-E-T-S.....SUCK"

applauseSpelling Bee Judge: Congratulations Johnny. You win."

 

[Tunescribe]

Spelling Bee Judge: "Okay now Johnny, for the 5th grade spelling bee championship spell the word, SUCK."

Little Johnny: Thinks really hard for a minute"I'm pretty sure I know this one, but could you give me the definition please and use it in a sentence?"

Spelling Bee Judge: "To be objectionable or inadequate of winning a championship. You already know that your favorite team will suck and will never win the "big game".

Little Johhny: "Oh okay, thank you. That's what I thought.
SUCK...J-E-T-S.....SUCK"

applauseSpelling Bee Judge: Congratulations Johnny. You win."

This reminds me: Why did they name the team Jets? Because their fans had trouble spelling a-i-r-p-l-a-n-e.

 

[Gunnails]

#1 Defense

#1 Running game.

=thread over.

 

[Deus Irae]

#1 Defense

#1 Running game.

=thread over.

# of Super Bowls won in the past 40 years: 0
# of Super Bowls gone to in the past 40 years: 0

= thread not so over

 

[Gunnails]

# of Super Bowls won in the past 40 years: 0
# of Super Bowls gone to in the past 40 years: 0

= thread not so over

=====================================================

I prefer to live in the present.