Reiss: Moss played with separated shoulder

[The Dynasty]

Moss had a bad game is a fact. You are claiming you know the reason. I offered a ton of facts a moment ago as well as when this stupid crap first was talked about back after the game. You can ignore it all you want I don't care anymore.

I stated before that he had a bad game, and the reason for the bad game can be viewed differently depending how the way you view things. You are just assuming that you are automatically right.

You are sorely mistaken.

If I am mistaken that Carter doesnt have the same film access that Hoge and Jaws have? Just because Carter isnt on NFL matchup doesnt mean he cannot watch the same film. They all work for ESPN, they share video. As for the other media outlets they definitely analyze tape. New England Tailgate does it, Curran and Felger and others do on Comcast.

I don't have a problem with them as people. I am simply pointing out the facts that they have agendas and aren't unbiased robots. Moss treats them like they don't exist (like crap). If I was in their position I would not want to write a damn thing positive about him and I would surely be biased against him myself.

Then dont criticize them if you would be acting the same way if you were in their position. That just doesnt make sense.

Well you can go call up Tom Brady and tell him that it's an awful argument because he directly attributed that to some of the teams struggles for the 3-4 week stretch he had to miss practice. But I guess you know more about the game than him.

You used Brady missing practice to illustrate why Moss was ineffective in the Carolina game. If you ask him as to why Moss had a poor game I think him missing some of practice that week would be the one of his last responses.

OH NO, was I one or two off! Way to nitpick something so minor and meaningless.

You were wrong and I corrected you, I wasnt nitpicking, just correcting.

What cut? You thought he should have cut hard to the sideline. So right off the bat you make a flawed assumption. The DB had outside coverage, it is possible (if not likely) that Moss read the outside coverage and adjusted his route to NOT cut sharp to the outside because on a read like that he expects the ball to be thrown inside away from the DB. Brady had a defender right in his face and had to rush the throw. It was most likely Brady's fault, but we'll never know. You take a very very tiny subset of information and extrapolate to terrible flawed conclusions. It kind of reminds me when Hobbs was blamed for a big completion to Davenport because he was the only Patriots defender in the TV feed when the ball was being caught.

Do you have some insider information to know what play was called? Were you in the huddle? You dont know what was going through Moss' head or Bradys. This is the thing, you are acting like you are on the Patriots staff and know everything that happened and was called. Like the other poster said you are questioning people that dont have access to the coaches film but then are making claims yourself that could only be seen if you had the coaches film yourself. You have a profound love for Moss and refuse to view the situation objectively.

 

[The Dynasty]

If I am reading this correctly then expectations become situation dependent.

Let's flip this around a little now. Matt Light is a 2 time pro-bowl tackle. After the season we find out he played carrying an injured knee cap. He was roundly ridiculed by posters on this board. At the time, had you known Matt Light had this issue, do your Light performance expectations stay the same or do they change?

They would stay the same, I would hope that when Light came back he would be able to play at the level he could before the injury or else he came back too soon.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Brady won a Superbowl MVP nursing a seperated shoulder that never healed. Originally hurt it in mid December 2002. Reinjured it in the last game of that season, although he finished the game and won. Had surgery for it in 2004. The infamous Brady-Probable-shoulder. Maybe that was what he was talking about when he was imploring his teamate to push through it...Or when he said that in his humble opinion injuries are just excuses for poor performance...

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

There's only one thing that is worse than claiming to be right with no evidence to back it up. That would be, coming on this board after the Pats confirm your suspicions, and claiming you know everything, and the rest of us are just 'haters'......such maturity

this post is directed at a few people in this thread

 

[ausbacker]

They would stay the same, I would hope that when Light came back he would be able to play at the level he could before the injury or else he came back too soon.

OK... I'm just establishing your mentality when it comes to player expectations and evaluations.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Just put it out there in writing for the world to know. Is it your opinion that Moss is NOT receiving double coverage on a vast majority of the plays? Obviously I can't know this for a fact and do not have the coaches tapes, but it's one of those pretty well known things.

So let it be known now, do you or do you not believe Moss gets double covered on MOST plays?

You are obviously another one incapable of reasoned logic. Moss is great and put up a helluva year. Like every receiver to ever play the game, there will be numerous bad plays, bad series and bad quarters mixed in. Your entire post is full of lies and putting words in my mouth. CONGRATS!

You personally attack people for no reason when trying to get your point across. The fact that you resort to attempting to belittle people conveys the lack of strength in your arguments. You contradict yourself every time you speak and blame others for not being logical. It's a joke.

Every "great" WR receives "double teams" on MOST plays. Guys like Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Marshall, etc. all face double teams on a consistent basis. There are very few teams who can match up a CB one on one with a WR of that caliber. That's why I'm so sick of hearing you talk about Moss and how he has to deal with double teams. You act like he's the only WR who requires safety help.

Of course there are going to be bad games and bad plays mixed in, that's inevitable. But everytime Moss has a bad game you blame it on him being doubled constantly. Is he not doubled in the other games when he puts up 140 yards? Are other great WR's not doubled consistently?

I don't understand how being doubled is a valid excuse for a lack of production, especially if he's being doubled every game..

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

1. The effort that Moss put in the Carolina game wasnt the same as he put in any of the other games that he presumably played with a separated shoulder. Any effort would be good. I mean just because he has a separated shoulder and showing up, that isnt really doing the team any good. He actually has to give an effort, which he did all season except the Carolina game and I commend him for that. Bottom line is the Carolina game Moss did not play with the same energy or effort that he did in any other games during the season so his effort can be questioned regardless of an injury or not.

2. If Moss' shoulder was so severely hurt in the Carolina game that he couldnt give any effort then he didnt belong on the field that day. The Patriots could have devised an alternate game plan especially a more run dominate one considering the Panthers were so weak against the run. The Pats didnt even need to rule Moss out if they wanted, they could have listed him as questionable all week.

3. The Patriots kept his injury hidden just like they do of every injury a team member has. Look at Brady, did they ever reveal what his injury was? The extent of Matt Lights injury wasnt revealed until after the season as well. The Patriots always contain injury information with any player, that is something a BB coached team will always do.

Then it would have been pretty damn hard to keep his injury hidden than wouldnt it?

It wasnt about JUST THAT GAME. Had he sat out, than other teams would be made aware of the injury that would have kept him out, which would affect following games.

Come on, man.

He had to play for that AND because his presence and presence ALONE is a help to the 2009 team that had no depth at WR. Welker had a huge day against Carolina, and if Moss weren't there deflecting coverage, he has half the amount of catches he had.

 

[RyanP421]

You personally attack people for no reason when trying to get your point across. The fact that you resort to attempting to belittle people conveys the lack of strength in your arguments. You contradict yourself every time you speak and blame others for not being logical. It's a joke.

Every "great" WR receives "double teams" on MOST plays. Guys like Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Marshall, etc. all face double teams on a consistent basis. There are very few teams who can match up a CB one on one with a WR of that caliber. That's why I'm so sick of hearing you talk about Moss and how he has to deal with double teams. You act like he's the only WR who requires safety help.

Of course there are going to be bad games and bad plays mixed in, that's inevitable. But everytime Moss has a bad game you blame it on him being doubled constantly. Is he not doubled in the other games when he puts up 140 yards? Are other great WR's not doubled consistently?

I don't understand how being doubled is a valid excuse for a lack of production, especially if he's being doubled every game..

I hate how Moss gets criticized so harshly when he has an off game.

You don't hear about Fitzgerald dogging it when he gets 2 for 22yds, or 4 for 36, or 5 for 48, or 3 for 17...Which were his final 4 games of the year....


WRs don't have huge games every game. Even the elite ones have off games, doesn't mean they didn't try. It means they had an off game. Get over it.

People hold Moss to such a ridiculous standard. Due to his own greatness I suppose.

But seriously, people need to shutup. Unless you're going to freak out when Fitgerald gets shut down for 22 yds, shutup when Moss does too.

 

[Joker]

.....bring back hart lee dykes!!!

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

.....bring back hart lee dykes!!!

Give me a break....you know McMurtry was 100 times better than Dykes

 

[zoostation]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

It was clear Moss was dogging it, those of us who questioned him were right to do so.

That wasn't clear to me. This was only clear to you and football know nothing Jerry Callahan.

 

[BAM!]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

I suspect that a lot of the people who "hate" on Moss are just closet rascists anyway, so who cares?

Why the F did you go there? Why must it always be about race and not a myriad of other reasons someone might criticize a person?

JHC this sh!t is old! :enranged:

 

[vyrago]

Brady won a Superbowl MVP nursing a seperated shoulder that never healed. Originally hurt it in mid December 2002. Reinjured it in the last game of that season, although he finished the game and won. Had surgery for it in 2004. The infamous Brady-Probable-shoulder. Maybe that was what he was talking about when he was imploring his teamate to push through it...Or when he said that in his humble opinion injuries are just excuses for poor performance...

Wasn't that his left or non-throwing shoulder? Not that it wouldn't hurt like heck, but it would be less performance inhibiting, no?

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Then it would have been pretty damn hard to keep his injury hidden than wouldnt it?

It wasnt about JUST THAT GAME. Had he sat out, than other teams would be made aware of the injury that would have kept him out, which would affect following games.

Come on, man.

He had to play for that AND because his presence and presence ALONE is a help to the 2009 team that had no depth at WR. Welker had a huge day against Carolina, and if Moss weren't there deflecting coverage, he has half the amount of catches he had.

It actually wouldnt have been that hard to keep the injury secret considering the event that took place in that very same week. That could have been the excuse as to why he didnt play. Even if he didnt play that week and it came out that he had a shoulder injury how would that have effected the following games? The Patriots never reveal the extent of any injury so the severity of it would never have been revealed. Anyone that watched Randy Moss play last season knew that he wasnt 100% health wise and that includes Patriots. opponents. I dont understand what the issue would be if other teams in the league knew that Moss had a shoulder injury, they would have played him the same way they did even not knowing what kind of injury he had.

While I will agree just his presence on the field effects the way defenses play against the Patriots by shifting the majority of their attention to Moss, the Carolina game would have been a game that he could have afforded to miss considering how terrible the Panthers run defense was and the Patriots could have gone to a more run dominated game similar to the Buffalo game. This was not a likely scenario because Moss could play through the injury as he showed in the other games past the Denver game. Moss had a bad game in the Panthers game, and you can think what you want about the cause for it, everyone is going to have their own opinions. When Moss isnt running routes like everyone is used to seeing, when hes dropping balls and fumbling and not looking interested/motivated on the sidelines that is a cause for me and others to question is effort on that particular day.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hate how Moss gets criticized so harshly when he has an off game.

You don't hear about Fitzgerald dogging it when he gets 2 for 22yds, or 4 for 36, or 5 for 48, or 3 for 17...Which were his final 4 games of the year....


WRs don't have huge games every game. Even the elite ones have off games, doesn't mean they didn't try. It means they had an off game. Get over it.

People hold Moss to such a ridiculous standard. Due to his own greatness I suppose.

But seriously, people need to shutup. Unless you're going to freak out when Fitgerald gets shut down for 22 yds, shutup when Moss does too.

1.) We're Patriots fans. Why the hell should we worry about receivers on other teams slacking off? If Fitzgerald was dogging it, I assume that Cardinals fans will talk about it.

2.) Moss didn't give an acceptable level of effort. That's what it boils down to. His opponents noticed his issues. His QB noticed his issues. Post-game, his old mentor ripped him about it. Jaws, who defended him at the start, eventually backtracked about the most glaring play. If his shoulder was such a problem that he couldn't run out routes, he didn't belong on the field running out routes.

3.) Moss had one 'good' (4 catches for 45 yards and 3 tds) game in his last 7, and 75 yards receiving was his highest total during that span. The "bad game by other elite receivers" argument is simply not going to work here. It's not the 'bad game' aspect that we're talking about, it's the lack of effort in one particular game.

 

[ausbacker]

1.) We're Patriots fans. Why the hell should we worry about receivers on other teams slacking off? If Fitzgerald was dogging it, I assume that Cardinals fans will talk about it.

2.) Moss didn't give an acceptable level of effort. That's what it boils down to. His opponents noticed his issues. His QB noticed his issues. Post-game, his old mentor ripped him about it. Jaws, who defended him at the start, eventually backtracked about the most glaring play. If his shoulder was such a problem that he couldn't run out routes, he didn't belong on the field running out routes.

3.) Moss had one 'good' (4 catches for 45 yards and 3 tds) game in his last 7, and 75 yards receiving was his highest total during that span. The "bad game by other elite receivers" argument is simply not going to work here.

We've gone over this already Deus. Unless you can measure effort with something tangible, it's nothing more than an opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

We've gone over this already Deus. Unless you can measure effort with something tangible, it's nothing more than an opinion.

If it's nothing more than that, perhaps the "hater" comments should cease and the insane homers should accept that reality.

*Note, those actions don't refer to you. I'm sure you understand where I was going with this post.

 

[ausbacker]

If it's nothing more than that, perhaps the "hater" comments should cease and the insane homers should accept that reality.

*Note, those actions don't refer to you. I'm sure you understand where I was going with this post.

Oh I do. It just seems, as you have rightfully pointed out the two extremes pass stupid commentary to spite one another without achieving anything.

 

[olschool]

Wasn't that his left or non-throwing shoulder? Not that it wouldn't hurt like heck, but it would be less performance inhibiting, no?

His chronic shoulder separation is to his right shoulder. Every time he takes a hit there, there's a good chance it will separate again.

So, when he's off target sometimes , cut him some slack.

Same for Moss. We'll probably never know how badly he was injured last year.

Between the shoulder and the back and who knows what else, I would guess that would slow anyone down.

 

[emoney_33]

Then dont criticize them if you would be acting the same way if you were in their position. That just doesnt make sense.

Can you please try to comprehend what I write? I'm not even crticizing the media, I'm pointing out that they are biased and do not give the entire story. That is for YOU to quit using them as some sort of proof, it has nothing to do with my personal feelings about them.

You used Brady missing practice to illustrate why Moss was ineffective in the Carolina game. If you ask him as to why Moss had a poor game I think him missing some of practice that week would be the one of his last responses.

I don't care what you think his responses would be. He doesn't make excuses, never has and never will. And secondly I used it as one example of the MANY things contributing to a poor game. You want to sit on your high horse and pretend that it was simply effort. It's either laziness or inability to think. That type of stupid single-reason scapegoat mentality is nauseating

You were wrong and I corrected you, I wasnt nitpicking, just correcting.

correction, that should be wasn't with an apostrophe.

Do you have some insider information to know what play was called? Were you in the huddle? You dont know what was going through Moss' head or Bradys. This is the thing, you are acting like you are on the Patriots staff and know everything that happened and was called. Like the other poster said you are questioning people that dont have access to the coaches film but then are making claims yourself that could only be seen if you had the coaches film yourself. You have a profound love for Moss and refuse to view the situation objectively.

You really fail at reading comprehension. I have never once put out my opinion as fact. I have simply given the surrounding facts and offered multiple possible reasons and likely scenarios. The scenarios I offer are based around all the factual information we have, and not wild speculation and biased nonsense that you have.

So step back and attempt to understand rather than just looking for how you can argue against me.