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Lombardi: Seymour's not looking for a contract, he's just pissed.

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Please list the agents of Mankins, Wilfork, Gostkowski and Neal. If the agents don't measure up, perhaps we should expect yet another trade in the next few weeks.

Perhaps the goal has moved from winning the Super Bowl in 2009 to having the best draft in 2011.

:youtheman::youtheman: Thank you for bringing some sanity to the discussion.
 
Lombardi was just on NFLN here's a brief description:

He said he does not know what cable is talking about when he said he is waiting for Seymour and the Pats to clear things up. The papers have been turned into the league and Seymour is officially part of the raiders and has nothing to do with the patriots.

When asked about how the defense will fill in for Seymour he mentions that the patriots are high on brace and pryor, which he says they should be because he also thinks they preformed well throughout the off season and preseason.

When asked about the makeover on defense he mentioned after the season BB wanted to get faster on defense, he says usually when a BB defense gets an opponent on 3rd and long thats when BB unleashes his wide array of blitzes, but the lack of speed on defense didn't allow him to do that.

From what he says I got the feeling that the Patriots defense is going to be much more aggressive getting after the qb with some exotic blitzes on 3rd down, with an emphasis of creating turnovers.

It's unfortunate despite new rules here threads continue to get hijacked.

Yup, he was on with Felger and Maz this afternoon as well and he was very clear that this is a Raiders issue. Said the rules are very clear and longstanding. And he was saying that as a former personnel man for an NFL team. Seymour can report, or the Raiders can compel him to report, or he can retire. If he retires the league might become involved because the trade compensation would probably be adjusted or voided. In the Plummer case it was adjusted because Tampa wanted to retain his rights believing he would unretire...he never did. They also got to persue some of his signing bonus and it was substantial, so the trade still made sense for them and Denver didn't want him back. Seymour doesn't have much signing bonus to recover since the bulk of his bonus on the last deal was an option bonus and those aren't recoverable.

'There is no way Seymour can win in this because of the repercussions to all trades going forward. The league will not allow that. They don't want to publicly make one of their franchise's or one of their stars look bad so they are maintaining a low profile but likely working behind the scenes to pressure the two sides to settle their differences and move on. The easiest way is for the Raiders to offer Seymour a new deal. I think the real fly in the ointment is that for once that's not what the player wants - his money. He wants a do over, and he's not getting that. Oakland would be even more insane to agree to waive the tag, which might be a worst case settlement Seymour is looking for. He was assuming all the risk this year in NE, so this way he'd just be doing it on a new team in dissaray. Only other option is to retire.

After this the league should look into putting the Raiders into receivership. Mike pointed out that there has only always been one voice in Oakland, Al isn't thinking short term because he's dying, he's always done business his way and his mother lived to be 100...
 
Please list the agents of Mankins, Wilfork, Gostkowski and Neal. If the agents don't measure up, perhaps we should expect yet another trade in the next few weeks.

Perhaps the goal has moved from winning the Super Bowl in 2009 to having the best draft in 2011.


I guess you're not the mod Ian has appointed to moderate hijacked threads...
 
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Please list the agents of Mankins, Wilfork, Gostkowski and Neal. If the agents don't measure up, perhaps we should expect yet another trade in the next few weeks.

Perhaps the goal has moved from winning the Super Bowl in 2009 to having the best draft in 2011.

Are you off your medications? I'm having trouble seeing the coherence of your point here. I don't give a d*mn about the agents, or see their relevance to the loyalty discussion. No agent is loyal to anyone other than himself, anyway.

If the goal was only to have the best chance of winning the SB in the current year then we should never have traded Drew Bledsoe in 2002 or Deion Branch in 2006, and should never have allowed Dan Graham or Asante Samuel to become FAs. But while winning the SB in a given year is always the most important goal, it's not the only one. BB has been clear that his goal has also been to field a SB contender every year, and he has so far been true to his word.

Of course losing Seymour doesn't improve our chances for winning the SB in 2009. No one has said that it did. But in the long run I still think it's a good move. And I think "loyalty" is a bogus argument. The same people who are whining about the lack of "loyalty" have also whined about keeping old players around too long.
 
that's a pretty strong and personal statement, when all that most folks have to go on are the personas that the Belichicks and Manginis of the world present to the public. disagree, present another view, by all means, but recognize that few of us have any idea what any of these guys are "really" like; all we know are the carefully crafted images that they, and in the case of many players, their handlers present to the public. so slamming someone for drawing a conclusion about a guy like Mangini, who, at the very least, "limits" his self presentation and leaves a lot of blank space to be filled in by the observer, is a little rough. personally, i appreciate the insight you provide there into Mangini. Thank you. But don't be so hard on someone who draws his own, different conclusions from what Mangini presents or doesn't present for observation by the rest of us.

my point is that the bb's and mangini's of the world choose to play by a set of rules, often for their own self-protection and privacy. that leaves them open to people painting or projecting their own mishegaas onto them. that's part of the reason they get paid the kind of money they get paid.

The guy made a negative judgment on both peoples personalities. The fact that he could have no way of knowing is not a defense, it is the crime.
 
Looks like Seymour needs his diaper changed.

I thought it was just a business, Richard?
 
The guy made a negative judgment on both peoples personalities. The fact that he could have no way of knowing is not a defense, it is the crime.


That's UNHEARD of on a fan forum regarding head coaches!
 
I calls 'em like I sees 'em Andy. If having a personal relationship with NFL players and coaches (or knowing someone who does) was a prerequisite to posting opinions on a football messageboard I guess it'd just be you and the crickets fighting it out here everyday.

And if you think I'm the first guy to perceive Mangini as a wannabe BB clone then you're Rip Van Winkle.

Posting on a message board does not entail guessing at the personality and character of someone you never met or know nothing about. This board has survived this long without needing that as a topic, and mot crickets have arrived.
Its not a matter of comparing the 2 to each other (very easy since one worked for the other, people used to say BB was Parcells in a hoodie) its that you decide to attack thier character. Ignorant means you don't have the facts. YOu clearly commented from a point of ignorance.
 
Posting on a message board does not entail guessing at the personality and character of someone you never met or know nothing about. This board has survived this long without needing that as a topic, and mot crickets have arrived.
Its not a matter of comparing the 2 to each other (very easy since one worked for the other, people used to say BB was Parcells in a hoodie) its that you decide to attack thier character. Ignorant means you don't have the facts. YOu clearly commented from a point of ignorance.

What????

This is a fan website forum and the two people are NFL head coaches.

This is not a court of law.

Seriously, Andy, what's going on? This is simply bizarre.

But back to the subject of the thread......
 
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The guy made a negative judgment on both peoples personalities. The fact that he could have no way of knowing is not a defense, it is the crime.

OK, guess it's not you, either...
 
If you really think that ditching someone is an act of loyalty, you're welcome to do so. I understand that loyalty is in limited supply when it comes to professional sports. "It's a business" has become the only mantra that seems to matter.

Trading away Mike Vrabel was not an act of loyalty. Trading away Seymour is not an act of loyalty. Forcing Rodney to renegotiate his contract was not an act of loyalty. Ditching players who've bought houses, set their families down in the area and begun sending their kids to local schools is not an act of loyalty.


Aww...boo hoo. Poor Richard, with his millions of dollars and his lazy, whining attitude. The big bad Patriots are being so mean to him!
 
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Does anyone here really think(or care) that he should have built a new house in the last year of his contract, especially since he OBVIOUSLY knew that he may not even be around after his current deal was done because he was going to "get his...I live in SC.or whatever..."he was gonna rake'm, and everyone knows this.

It's been intimated that he even mentioned he may not be here, and he KNEW that there were also other players that were up for a new deal as well.....

When did his deductive reasoning take a dump, when he heard the news that he was traded to a Franchise that is in Disarray right now?
It surely would have been keen as an Eagle Eye had Krafty called him into his office for a new contract offer.

IOW, I don't wanna hear crying about how he just built a new house...cry to someone else about your mansion when it's up for sale and noone will buy it in this market..
Stupidity at it's finest.
You play a GAME Richard, you are one of the few fortunate guys that gets paid LARGE sums of $ to ENTERTAIN folks....
Thanks for all you've done as a Patriot, have fun entertaining folks out in the Black Hole.
 
What????

This is a fan website forum and the two people are NFL head coaches.

This is not a court of law.

Seriously, Andy, what's going on? This is simply bizarre.

But back to the subject of the thread......

I disagreed with his comment. So I stated my opinion. His response was that its a message board so he can say whatever he wants, and I reiterated why I called his comment ignorant.
 
I disagreed with his comment. So I stated my opinion. His response was that its a message board so he can say whatever he wants, and I reiterated why I called his comment ignorant.

Perhaps you're right Andy. Maybe my posting was ignorant. Perhaps with some education my ignorance can be cured.

Your posting however, was condescending. The only remedy I know of for that is a little humility. Based on your replies to the others it doesn't appear to be working.
 
That is the most ignorant statement Ive seen in a terribly long time.
You have never met either person, yet you have decided to accuse one of being an @ss by comparing him to the other.
I know someone very well who is as close to Mangini as virtually anyone outside his family. And I can tell you that you know absolutely nothing about Eric Mangini the person.

Sorry if this has already been answered - I'm still on Page 3 - but:

Is this an indictment of Mangina, or of Belichick?
 
Sorry if this has already been answered - I'm still on Page 3 - but:

Is this an indictment of Mangina, or of Belichick?

Let's move on. Evidently Andy knows someone who is very close to Mangini and a poster made a comment (about a public figure - something that is done, oh, 99.3% of the time on a fan forum) that pushed a sensitive button.

Loyalty to a friend is a very good and noble characteristic. At the same time this is a football fan forum. If the rules were that no one can post opinions about public figures unless they personally knew those persons, then we'd all be looking at a pretty blank page.

So even though no one here has had dinner with the Seymour family or played golf with Mr. Al Davis, all posts about them are perfectly legitimate here.
 
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So even though no one here has had dinner with the Seymour family or played golf with Mr. Al Davis, all posts about them are perfectly legitimate here.

U my good man make too much sense to be taken seriously. Please leave so the chaos can continue.
 
Let's move on. Evidently Andy knows someone who is very close to Mangini and a poster made a comment (about a public figure - something that is done, oh, 99.3% of the time on a fan forum) that pushed a sensitive button.

Loyalty to a friend is a very good and noble characteristic. At the same time this is a football fan forum. If the rules were that no one can post opinions about public figures unless they personally knew those persons, then we'd all be looking at a pretty blank page.

So even though no one here has had dinner with the Seymour family or played golf with Mr. Al Davis, all posts about them are perfectly legitimate here.

What? Magini is off limits to ridicule, castigation and overall character assassination?

How about Terry Glenn? Can we still do him?
 
FWIW I do think that this forum could do with a whole lot less 'expert analysis' on the inner workings and motivations of players and coaches alike. There's definitely a certain subset of posters who seem to feel uniquely qualified to tell everyone exactly what every player/coach is thinking and why, which has always struck me as more than a little ridiculous. It's really manifested itself a lot these last few days in all these Seymour threads, with the general consensus moving from "Seymour always wanted to leave because he's all about money and doesn't care about winning" to "Seymour was never a team player no matter how hard they tried to make him one" to, now that some new info is coming out, "Seymour wanted to stay, but he's fat and lazy and doesn't love football so he's not good anymore".

I'd think that if nothing else, the Randy Moss saga of 2007 would have taught us something. The board's most prolific armchair psychoanalysts were all writing their own thesis statements on exactly why Moss didn't have the necessary drive to be a 'True Patriot' (tm), only to find out very quickly that none of them had any clue what motivates him. We'd like to think that we know now, but to be honest, we still probably don't. The sooner everyone realizes that human personalities in general are complex, multifaceted, and generally resistant to being broken down into one-dimensional caricatures, the better.
 
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