Lombardi: Seymour's not looking for a contract, he's just pissed.

[Eppy]

I'm not mad at the front office. I wasn't mad at the front office before. I don't like the trade, because I'd rather have Seymour this year and a 3rd in 2011 than no Seymour this year and a 1st in 2011, but that has nothing to do with my defense of Seymour regarding the claimed desire to get every possible dollar in his next contract.

No goalposts were moved, no anger was involved.

I don't think emotions were involved in term mad.

 

[BradyFTW!]

i'll stay out of whatever argument you're having there, but I completely agree with your points above. i sometimes get amazed at how quick some folks are to give away the money that players might be able to command; "it's only a few mill less--he should be willing to take a cut so he can stay in Foxboro and show loyalty to the Patriots;" "only a few mill less?" that's a lot of money.

these guys are in the entertainment business and are trying to monetize a set of skills that have a relatively short shelf life and that diminish (ever more rapidly) with time. why shouldn't they get what they can get when they can get it?

i have no problem with the pats being rational (by their lights) in how they pay, release and trade people, i have no problem with players who walk because they don't think the pats are offering enough and i also have no problem that Richard Seymour is ticked off at how this worked out for him.

I think it's a perspective issue. Large sums mess with people in all facets of life, to the result that most people around here see no functional difference between $8M and $10M. The key point, as you pointed out, is that the shelf life on their skillset is extremely short. One year of football can very easily reflect 10% or more of a player's total lifetime earnings. Hell, if a guy goes out and blows out his knee tomorrow, it could be a lot more than that. The only certainty in the NFL is that you won't be around for very long, so blaming a player for trying to build up a large sum of money for himself and his family over the rest of his life is just stupid.

Has anyone ever left a job to get a raise somewhere else? If so, would you think it was fair if people started smearing you for being a disloyal piece of crab who didn't care about his job and was just all about the money? Because that would be *less* ignorant than most of the anti-Seymour tirades that I'm seeing around here.

*cue the bitter folks who just can't imagine what anyone would ever need multiple millions of dollars for*

 

[TomPatriot]

I hear Oakland is a nice place to raise your kids.

Nob Hill in SF to Alameda Stadium is a half hour drive max. It's a tough life but someone has to live it.

 

[shmessy]

I think it's a perspective issue. Large sums mess with people in all facets of life, to the result that most people around here see no functional difference between $8M and $10M. The key point, as you pointed out, is that the shelf life on their skillset is extremely short. One year of football can very easily reflect 10% or more of a player's total lifetime earnings. Hell, if a guy goes out and blows out his knee tomorrow, it could be a lot more than that. The only certainty in the NFL is that you won't be around for very long, so blaming a player for trying to build up a large sum of money for himself and his family over the rest of his life is just stupid.

Has anyone ever left a job to get a raise somewhere else? If so, would you think it was fair if people started smearing you for being a disloyal piece of crab who didn't care about his job and was just all about the money? Because that would be *less* ignorant than most of the anti-Seymour tirades that I'm seeing around here.

*cue the bitter folks who just can't imagine what anyone would ever need multiple millions of dollars for*

Let's state here, btw, that there are many of us who a) very much like the value received for this trade while at the same b) time appreciate Richard Seymour's very valid desire for higher compensation and don't hold him to be "disloyal" for that aim.

It's business, and as long as Richard does not breach the terms of his contract and the CBA, it's probably a win-win for everyone involved.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I don't need to be sold on Oakland being the worst organization in sports. However, in this case I have to think the Patriots may be the ones who botched it. The Raiders were not allowed to negotiate or talk to Seymour before the trade, or it would be tampering. Clearly the obligation was on the part of the Pats to either talk to Seymour or allow the Raiders to talk to Seymour (and all signs indicate the Raiders did not talk to Seymour.) Meanwhile, the Raiders have to understand that no one wants to play there, and you'd think they would have wanted to talk to him and make the trade conditional upon his blessing and motivation to play for their team. We all knew something like this was bound to happen, given the histories of both Belichick and Davis.

Personally, I've never been a big Seymour fan. The only reason I've seen him as a gigantic asset is because BB knows what he's doing, and he's always considered Seymour to be an elite player. It seems like don't miss him when he's injured, and I don't notice him during games. He must be the only "dominant" player in the history of sports whose talents are hidden to the naked eye. I know he's good, but he's been paid insanely well now for years and has held out twice. I've been hoping for a long time that they would utilize Jarvis Green and ditch the enormous salary.

Waaaah, waaah, waaah, a professional athlete making $100M over his career and crying that he's being traded to a team he doesn't like for 6 months. It's funny how he was all business before, and now he's all about winning and playing for a great organization. None of that stuff mattered to him or his agent before.

Seriously, I'm never one to bash players just because they leave here. I still love guys like Adam V, Willie M, and Drew B, but on this one, good riddance.

 

[letekro]

What would it take for some of you guys to come out from under your Kool-aid induced anesthesia and admit that BB acts like a jerk sometimes. Maybe there's a reason he's gotten the reputation he has (regarding his people skills).

Think about it...

1. Tells Drew Bledsoe he'll have a chance to compete for his job back and then reneges on it later. Drew says BB lied to him.

2. Unexpectedly cuts Lawyer Milloy five days before the season without warning. Many players voice their displeasure at the way Milloy was treated including Tom Brady.

3. Arrogantly assumes he is above reproach by the league because of a technicality in the rule he thinks he can exploit and continues to videotape defensive signals from the sidelines. The decision backfires and does irreparable harm to the organization's image.

4. Unexpectedly trades Mike Vrable to Kansas City as part of the Matt Cassell deal. Vrabel expresses surprise and displeasure at the manner in which he was treated.

5. Unexpectedly exiles Richard Seymour to NFL Hell. Seymour expresses surprise and displeasure at the way he was treated.

I love BB as a coach too but how many more times do we need to see him do this stuff before we're willing to admit that BB just might have earned some of the criticism that always seems to come his way?

I don't understand 2, 4, and 5. So, when you cut/trade someone, you're supposed to give them notice, ask their thoughts on the matter, talk about their feelings, living arrangements, etc., before you do it??

1. So, as the pats are making a playoff push and Brady is playing better than Bledsoe ever has, BB is supposed to take half of Brady's practice reps, and jeopardize the season, just so he can keep his "promise" to Drew? I didn't realize putting the team first and refusing to cater to "star" players was a bad quality in a head coach.

3. was a mistake in judgment, I'll give you that, but I don't see how that has any bearing ono his "people skills" as you put it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That is the most ignorant statement Ive seen in a terribly long time.
You have never met either person, yet you have decided to accuse one of being an @ss by comparing him to the other.
I know someone very well who is as close to Mangini as virtually anyone outside his family. And I can tell you that you know absolutely nothing about Eric Mangini the person.

that's a pretty strong and personal statement, when all that most folks have to go on are the personas that the Belichicks and Manginis of the world present to the public. disagree, present another view, by all means, but recognize that few of us have any idea what any of these guys are "really" like; all we know are the carefully crafted images that they, and in the case of many players, their handlers present to the public. so slamming someone for drawing a conclusion about a guy like Mangini, who, at the very least, "limits" his self presentation and leaves a lot of blank space to be filled in by the observer, is a little rough. personally, i appreciate the insight you provide there into Mangini. Thank you. But don't be so hard on someone who draws his own, different conclusions from what Mangini presents or doesn't present for observation by the rest of us.

my point is that the bb's and mangini's of the world choose to play by a set of rules, often for their own self-protection and privacy. that leaves them open to people painting or projecting their own mishegaas onto them. that's part of the reason they get paid the kind of money they get paid.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not going to delve into this, because it's not as if this is something that hasn't been proudly noted in the media. However, benching someone for being late due to a funeral is not being loyal in my eyes.

He wasn't BENCHED. If he'd been BENCHED he' would not have even been dressed. Nothing like exaggerating the truth to the boarderline of a lie.

See, this is what you don't comprehend. That is not a loyalty issue. It was a compassion issue. It would have been a loyalty issue if the Pats had tried to slander Seymour for going to the funeral. And it wasn't. The Pats said they understood that Seymour had to be there and that they had their rules that everyone had to adhere to. You don't practice, you don't start. Loyalty had nothing to do with it one way or the other.

Hell, by law, the Pats were only required to give Seymour 3 days bereavement. I believe that Seymour left on Monday and didn't return until Saturday night. If it was any other person situation, Seymour would have either lost pay or been fired. Instead, he had to miss ONE SERIES.

You make it sound like having to stand around for a few extra minutes cost him tens of thousands of dollars.. And it didn't.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think it's a perspective issue. Large sums mess with people in all facets of life, to the result that most people around here see no functional difference between $8M and $10M. The key point, as you pointed out, is that the shelf life on their skillset is extremely short. One year of football can very easily reflect 10% or more of a player's total lifetime earnings. Hell, if a guy goes out and blows out his knee tomorrow, it could be a lot more than that. The only certainty in the NFL is that you won't be around for very long, so blaming a player for trying to build up a large sum of money for himself and his family over the rest of his life is just stupid.

Has anyone ever left a job to get a raise somewhere else? If so, would you think it was fair if people started smearing you for being a disloyal piece of crab who didn't care about his job and was just all about the money? Because that would be *less* ignorant than most of the anti-Seymour tirades that I'm seeing around here.

*cue the bitter folks who just can't imagine what anyone would ever need multiple millions of dollars for*

that's very well-stated. the idea of criticizing or laying guilt trips on people because they have high earnings potential is one that I don't share. If the relevant market says that someone is worth $12 million, s/he shouldn't be called "greedy" if s/he doesn't settle for $11, in any walk of life and especially not in a walk of life where everything can end on a single play or during a single practice session.

 

[DaBruinz]

That was not the claim I made, as I showed you in a follow up. Now, you can keep asserting things I didn't say all you want. I don't intend to respond to them.

You said, and I quote:

The Patriots demand absolute loyalty and return the favor by showing most players absolutely no loyalty at all.

So, how is it NOT the claim you made? Those are YOUR words.

I am not ASSERTING that you said anything other than what YOU posted. You are the person who is now backpedaling and trying to CYA because myself and several others proved that your statement was bogus. And we used multiple examples to show how your statement was bogus.

What I also find funny is that I reeled off no fewer than 6 or 7 right off the top of my head. Other people have reeled off more examples. Yet you keep claiming that there are more examples of the Patriots "showing most players no loyalty at all." Nor do you provide more than a smattering to support you.


All you have shown in this thread is that you have an extremely interesting idea of what the word loyalty means and it goes far beyond the definition and most of the synonyms of the word.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

I don't understand 2, 4, and 5. So, when you cut/trade someone, you're supposed to give them notice, ask their thoughts on the matter, talk about their feelings, living arrangements, etc., before you do it??

IIRC Milloy said no thanks to taking a pay cut so BB cut him instead... five days before he season opener. You'd have to ask the players, including Tom Brady, why they were so unhappy with how that one went down. You wouldn't think there would have been so much displeasure being voiced publicly by the players in the Patriot's lockerroom if it had been handled in a manner the players deemed usual or appropriate. Ditto with what Vrabes and now Seymour have said. I think we could at least agree they were all blindsided by how it went down in each situation. At least Brady's preparing himself for the inevitable based on what he said to Michael Silver about the Seymour deal.

IMO BB likes to make an example of players in these kinds of situations (disclaimer: I wasn't there and don't know anyone that was).

1. So, as the pats are making a playoff push and Brady is playing better than Bledsoe ever has, BB is supposed to take half of Brady's practice reps, and jeopardize the season, just so he can keep his "promise" to Drew? I didn't realize putting the team first and refusing to cater to "star" players was a bad quality in a head coach.

I agree with what you're saying except why tell him that in the first place? As coach, why leave the door open for him to be able to call you a liar later on and develop hard feelings that you misled him?

3. was a mistake in judgment, I'll give you that, but I don't see how that has any bearing ono his "people skills" as you put it.

I believe BB was fined $500K and the team $1MM plus a 1st round pick because of arrogance and not from any advantage the tapes might have gotten them. Arrogance is a trait that will not win you many points with a lot of people. IMO BB seems to demonstrate arrogance and self importance a lot. Couple that with the glibness and seeming cold blooded way he goes about his business and it should come as no surprise to anyone that he has acquired the reputation he has (referring to his person and not his coaching reputation).

 

[DaBruinz]

What would it take for some of you guys to come out from under your Kool-aid induced anesthesia and admit that BB acts like a jerk sometimes. Maybe there's a reason he's gotten the reputation he has (regarding his people skills).

Think about it...

1. Tells Drew Bledsoe he'll have a chance to compete for his job back and then reneges on it later. Drew says BB lied to him.

How do you know that BB didn't have a chance to compete for his job when he returned from injury? The competition would have been done in practices under the watchful eyes of BB and Weis.

BTW, what loyalty was Bledsoe showing when he was still feeding Ron Borges information on the team? What loyalty was Bledsoe showing when he continued to true and backstab BB by going directly to Kraft with complaints?????

2. Unexpectedly cuts Lawyer Milloy five days before the season without warning. Many players voice their displeasure at the way Milloy was treated including Tom Brady.

The move was a salary cap move because the Patriots were over the salary cap due to the 4 players they had to put on the IR and the players on the PUP. There were only 2 players whose contracts were large enough to be reworked and free up the cap space they needed. Law and Milloy. And they'd been in negotiations with Milloy for months trying to get a deal done. Not only that, there was rumors of tampering by the Bills and Jets in terms of letting Milloy know what sort of contract he'd get on the open market.

3. Arrogantly assumes he is above reproach by the league because of a technicality in the rule he thinks he can exploit and continues to videotape defensive signals from the sidelines. The decision backfires and does irreparable harm to the organization's image.

Are you friggin serious? God, you don't even know what rule was broken. The rule that was broken was NOT taping defensive signals. It was taping IN GENERAL from the sidelines. And it was proven that the Jets were doing the exact same thing in the game that the Patriots were "CAUGHT" in by the people on this board. Hell, it came out that the Jets had been caught the previous year taping from the sidelines and the league did NOTHING about it.

As to the idea that there was "irreparable harm to the organization's image," that's bogus also.

BTW, how was this a loyalty issue?

4. Unexpectedly trades Mike Vrable to Kansas City as part of the Matt Cassell deal. Vrabel expresses surprise and displeasure at the manner in which he was treated.

This was a salary cap move to ensure that Vrabel got his roster bonus and got paid his entire salary for this year. Vrabel had a very bad year last year and he was going to be in stiff competition to make this team. Plus, I am fairly certain that BB and Pees were looking at using the 4-3 more even back then.

This way, BB ensured that Vrabel would get his roster bonus and get his full salary for this year.

5. Unexpectedly exiles Richard Seymour to NFL Hell. Seymour expresses surprise and displeasure at the way he was treated.

Sorry, but Seymour was already running his mouth saying how he was gone next year. Both Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork have mentioned it that Seymour was talking about it at the team facilities. That's a disruption to the team that they don't like to have. Steve Martin, back in 2002, didn't even last a full season because of the way he was running his mouth in the lockerroom. So why should it be a surprise to Seymour that, when he was running his mouth and becoming distraction, that he was traded. BTW, You do know that the Raiders approached the Patriots, not the other way around, right?

I

love BB as a coach too but how many more times do we need to see him do this stuff before we're willing to admit that BB just might have earned some of the criticism that always seems to come his way?

I'm sure that BB has earned some of the criticism, but, realistically, the Patriots and BB have shown a lot more loyalty than they are being given credit for.

 

[slash83]

Lombardi was just on NFLN here's a brief description:

He said he does not know what cable is talking about when he said he is waiting for Seymour and the Pats to clear things up. The papers have been turned into the league and Seymour is officially part of the raiders and has nothing to do with the patriots.

When asked about how the defense will fill in for Seymour he mentions that the patriots are high on brace and pryor, which he says they should be because he also thinks they preformed well throughout the off season and preseason.

When asked about the makeover on defense he mentioned after the season BB wanted to get faster on defense, he says usually when a BB defense gets an opponent on 3rd and long thats when BB unleashes his wide array of blitzes, but the lack of speed on defense didn't allow him to do that.

From what he says I got the feeling that the Patriots defense is going to be much more aggressive getting after the qb with some exotic blitzes on 3rd down, with an emphasis of creating turnovers.

 

[BSR]

People forget the loyalty BB shows to his players every time he goes to the podium. How often do you hear BB blame a player for a loss or a broken play? How often do you hear BB talk about a player's injury? How often does he go to the media in a contract dispute? When does he ever air any players dirty laundry? The truth is BB always stands by his players to the outside world, to the chagrin of the media. He will never talk about any of those things because it is all between the team and the players. He makes it simple for them to play here because he takes away all the districations caused by the media and puts it on himself.

Loyalty is a funny thing. It requires both sides making a commitment to one another and that commitment comes in different shapes and sizes. In this case, their was no long term commitment shown by the player and as such there was no long term commitment shown by the organization. And there is nothing wrong with that. I by no means think there was any anomosity or bad feelings on the part of the organization with this trade. He was traded to the Raiders because it was the Raiders that came calling and not as punishment. There was no disloyalty shown there.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

How do you know that BB didn't have a chance to compete for his job when he returned from injury? The competition would have been done in practices under the watchful eyes of BB and Weis.

Not according to Drew. Drew said Bill lied and never gave him the chance that he was promised.

BTW, what loyalty was Bledsoe showing when he was still feeding Ron Borges information on the team? What loyalty was Bledsoe showing when he continued to true and backstab BB by going directly to Kraft with complaints?????

I never mentioned anything about loyalty. You must have me confused with Deus.

The move was a salary cap move because the Patriots were over the salary cap due to the 4 players they had to put on the IR and the players on the PUP. There were only 2 players whose contracts were large enough to be reworked and free up the cap space they needed. Law and Milloy. And they'd been in negotiations with Milloy for months trying to get a deal done. Not only that, there was rumors of tampering by the Bills and Jets in terms of letting Milloy know what sort of contract he'd get on the open market.

Regardless of the reason for the move the fact remains that the lockerroom was very uncomfortable with the way it was handled.


Are you friggin serious? God, you don't even know what rule was broken. The rule that was broken was NOT taping defensive signals. It was taping IN GENERAL from the sidelines. And it was proven that the Jets were doing the exact same thing in the game that the Patriots were "CAUGHT" in by the people on this board. Hell, it came out that the Jets had been caught the previous year taping from the sidelines and the league did NOTHING about it.

Yes the rule was taping from the sidelines. I believe that's what I posted. If not I'm sorry for not being thorough enough in the original post. Whatever the rule broken doesn;t change the fact that the motive for breaking it was arrogance on Belichicks part. He thoguht he was above reproach because he interpreted the rule as having some wiggle room in the way it was worded. The fact that the Rat was arrogant enough to do it too (and then turn BB in for doing the same thing) doesn't surprise me. After all, he learned at the feet of the master.

As to the idea that there was "irreparable harm to the organization's image," that's bogus also.

Then why do I still hear about my team being cheaters and needing asterisks applied to all of their accomplishments?

BTW, how was this a loyalty issue?

Never said it was.

This was a salary cap move to ensure that Vrabel got his roster bonus and got paid his entire salary for this year. Vrabel had a very bad year last year and he was going to be in stiff competition to make this team. Plus, I am fairly certain that BB and Pees were looking at using the 4-3 more even back then.

This way, BB ensured that Vrabel would get his roster bonus and get his full salary for this year.

Ah so BB was doing Vrabes a favor? I see. Too bad Vrabel didn't see it that way. I wonder why?

Sorry, but Seymour was already running his mouth saying how he was gone next year. Both Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork have mentioned it that Seymour was talking about it at the team facilities. That's a disruption to the team that they don't like to have. Steve Martin, back in 2002, didn't even last a full season because of the way he was running his mouth in the lockerroom. So why should it be a surprise to Seymour that, when he was running his mouth and becoming distraction, that he was traded. BTW, You do know that the Raiders approached the Patriots, not the other way around, right?

Well if Sey was expecting it and telling everyone it was imminent why such shock and chagrin when it actually goes down. You'd have think he'd have his bags packed and be living in a hotel instead of settling in and buying a new house and thinking he was close to an extension with the Pats that would have let him retire here.

I'm sure that BB has earned some of the criticism, but, realistically, the Patriots and BB have shown a lot more loyalty than they are being given credit for.

Yes he has earned it. That's all I was saying. And realistically, if this string is any indication, BB gets more than his share of credit not to mention benefit of doubt.

My reply in bold italic above.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Sorry, but Seymour was already running his mouth saying how he was gone next year. Both Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork have mentioned it that Seymour was talking about it at the team facilities. That's a disruption to the team that they don't like to have. Steve Martin, back in 2002, didn't even last a full season because of the way he was running his mouth in the lockerroom. So why should it be a surprise to Seymour that, when he was running his mouth and becoming distraction, that he was traded. BTW, You do know that the Raiders approached the Patriots, not the other way around, right?

Keep seeing this topic referenced in posts, but usually not accurately and with ominous implications.

"I talked to him months ago and he felt like this was on the horizon," Warren said. "With this being his last year, his cap number, all the stuff...pretty much the writing on the wall. He knew it was on the horizon, he just didn't know how it was going to come. Obviously it was going to be in the best interest of the team, and we got a first-round pick out of it."

Warren on Seymour: "He saw the writing on the wall" - Projo Pats Blog

Warren said that Seymour had confided in him that he thought the writing was on the wall regarding his Patriots career and that something like a trade could happen before the season.

"Sey felt like something was going to happen along these lines," said Warren. "He mentioned that to me months prior to this happening. I didn't put much thought into it."

Wilfork: Losing Seymour like losing family - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Nothing in those comments implies Sey was saying he was "gone after this year", and I think mentioning his trade concern to Warren a few times is not the equivalent of "running his mouth" and becoming a "distraction". Matter fo fact, this was his comments when asked about his contract last-

Like Wilfork, fellow defensive lineman Richard Seymour has just one year remaining on his current deal with the Patriots. But their situations are different. Seymour has chosen to be active in offseason workouts with his New England teammates, in part because he hasn’t had the luxury of doing so in recent years due to various injuries and the rehabilitation they required.

As for his own contract status, he wouldn’t go into much detail, preferring, he said, to keep such matters private. However, when asked if he thought the worldwide economic slump might play a role in his contract negotiations with the Patriots, Seymour offered a light-hearted response.

“We’re going to bring in the stimulus package,” he replied with a roaring, good-natured laugh.

Wilfork golfs with Pats; Seymour thinking big

Getting to be a lot of disrespect around here for Sey.

 

[DaBruinz]

IIRC Milloy said no thanks to taking a pay cut so BB cut him instead... five days before he season opener. You'd have to ask the players, including Tom Brady, why they were so unhappy with how that one went down. You wouldn't think there would have been so much displeasure being voiced publicly by the players in the Patriot's lockerroom if it had been handled in a manner the players deemed usual or appropriate. Ditto with what Vrabes and now Seymour have said. I think we could at least agree they were all blindsided by how it went down in each situation. At least Brady's preparing himself for the inevitable based on what he said to Michael Silver about the Seymour deal.

If that is all you remember about the Milloy situation, you should really go refresh your memory.

The Pats approached Milloy back in April of 2003 about renegotiating his contract. The talks went on for months, including all through TC until the roster cut-downs. The Pats had to put 4 people on the IR and I believe a few on the PUP... They were over the cap at the 53 cut-down so the Pats had to make a cut. Unfortunately, the Pats had already re-negotiated with most of the veterans. Only Law (who'd refused to re-negotiate) and Milloy (who they were still trying to negotiate with) were players with who cutting them would get the Pats under the cap with a single cut.

BB did not want to cut Milloy, but Milloy refused to take a pay cut or even continue negotiations because he'd found out that other teams would be willing to pay him in the range he was looking for. Namely the Bills and Jets..So, BB did the only thing he could. He sadly parted ways with Milloy. And Milloy was signed and in Buffalo less than 24 hours later.

IMO BB likes to make an example of players in these kinds of situations (disclaimer: I wasn't there and don't know anyone that was).

Make examples of players?? What do you have to support this?

I agree with what you're saying except why tell him that in the first place? As coach, why leave the door open for him to be able to call you a liar later on and develop hard feelings that you misled him?

Tell him what? That he'll have a chance in practice to win his job back? By all accounts, that is exactly what he was told.. And Brady was just better..

Bledsoe is the one who clearly didn't understand that him winning the QB job was not going to happen on the game field. That is was going to happen in practices.

I believe BB was fined $500K and the team $1MM plus a 1st round pick because of arrogance and not from any advantage the tapes might have gotten them. Arrogance is a trait that will not win you many points with a lot of people. IMO BB seems to demonstrate arrogance and self importance a lot. Couple that with the glibness and seeming cold blooded way he goes about his business and it should come as no surprise to anyone that he has acquired the reputation he has (referring to his person and not his coaching reputation).

BB and the team were fined because of Goodell arrogance and over-reaction to the situation. The fact is that the salary cap violations by the 49ers and the Broncos were tremendously more egregious than anything BB did. Not to mention that Goodell outright refused to look at the fact that other teams had been caught doing what the Pats did and they weren't disciplined.. The Jets were caught the play-offs prior and nothing was done. The day the Pats were caught, the Jets were doing the same damn thing. People watched the guy. He was in a NON-NFL Regulation Jets Polo Shirt bright as day. Yet nothing was done.

The only reason he's acquired the reputation he has is because the media think that they are entitled to things about BB that he feels they aren't. And because he refuses to cowtow to them. they paint him out to be something he's not.

BB has a game face and BB has a personal face. And we saw some of that at Bruschi's press conference. Its clear to me that the mediots who dislike BB and bash him do so because they don't understand him and because they are afraid of him since he clearly knows more about the subject they are covering than they do.

 

[guydon]

You know, I come in here and look around on occasion because I love football and I respect how your organization is run (currently…enjoy it while you can), but it seems more and more you folks are letting the media do your thinking for you. As a Raider fan I’m used to listening to my team be bashed, but I thought Pats fans were a bit more educated football fans than to just spew what they hear from the media I.E. “the Raiders are the worst run team in the NFL”, “the Raiders are the worst franchise in sports”, “the Raiders are a joke” and so on. Hell just in this thread I have seen it at least 20 times. Not trying to start anything here, but a few facts for those of you who want to do more than be a heard animal to the media…
Raiders have been to 5 SB’s (last one in 2002) and won 3. The Pats have been to 6 and won 3.
The Raiders STILL (even after 6 year slide) have one of the highest winning percentages in the entire NFL, Pats are in the middle of the pack.
The Raiders have FAR more HOF’ers than do the Pats.
I could go on and on and on. The point is you guys are enjoying success now, and that’s great, but to deny that the Raiders are one of the greatest NFL franchises in history is just ignorant. Everyone has down years, and any Pat fan that has been around more than just the last decade would know that lesson well.
If you are an NFL fan, know it’s history. Good luck this season, not like you need it you Brady having bastards!

 

[italia44]

People forget the loyalty BB shows to his players every time he goes to the podium. How often do you hear BB blame a player for a loss or a broken play? How often do you hear BB talk about a player's injury? How often does he go to the media in a contract dispute? When does he ever air any players dirty laundry? The truth is BB always stands by his players to the outside world, to the chagrin of the media. He will never talk about any of those things because it is all between the team and the players. He makes it simple for them to play here because he takes away all the districations caused by the media and puts it on himself.

Loyalty is a funny thing. It requires both sides making a commitment to one another and that commitment comes in different shapes and sizes. In this case, their was no long term commitment shown by the player and as such there was no long term commitment shown by the organization. And there is nothing wrong with that. I by no means think there was any anomosity or bad feelings on the part of the organization with this trade. He was traded to the Raiders because it was the Raiders that came calling and not as punishment. There was no disloyalty shown there.

People forget:
The 1M bonus paid to Tedy a couple of years back......granted it was paid by Kraft,but BB had to have something to do with it.

I don't care what anyone says,Vrabel got a nice kiss goodbye,when he was shipped to KC.Paid his roster bonus,when they didn't have to.

The Pats consistently pay their draft choices,quickly and fairly.

People forget that the Patriots have set the standard for paying the back end of the 53 man roster,better than any other team.
I can't remember a case where BB has attempted to cheat a player on roster,ota,workout or any other bonus.

Sure,BB dumps players for salary reasons.....but,not on those little things,that a player at the ass-end of the roster,like Hank Poteat,surely needs and appreciates.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

You know, I come in here and look around on occasion because I love football and I respect how your organization is run (currently…enjoy it while you can), but it seems more and more you folks are letting the media do your thinking for you. As a Raider fan I’m used to listening to my team be bashed, but I thought Pats fans were a bit more educated football fans than to just spew what they hear from the media I.E. “the Raiders are the worst run team in the NFL”, “the Raiders are the worst franchise in sports”, “the Raiders are a joke” and so on. Hell just in this thread I have seen it at least 20 times. Not trying to start anything here, but a few facts for those of you who want to do more than be a heard animal to the media…
Raiders have been to 5 SB’s (last one in 2002) and won 3. The Pats have been to 6 and won 3.
The Raiders STILL (even after 6 year slide) have one of the highest winning percentages in the entire NFL, Pats are in the middle of the pack.
The Raiders have FAR more HOF’ers than do the Pats.
I could go on and on and on. The point is you guys are enjoying success now, and that’s great, but to deny that the Raiders are one of the greatest NFL franchises in history is just ignorant. Everyone has down years, and any Pat fan that has been around more than just the last decade would know that lesson well.
If you are an NFL fan, know it’s history. Good luck this season, not like you need it you Brady having bastards!

Welcome to the board.

I don't think anyone discredits the Raiders history, heritage, or the innumerable contributions they have made to the NFL. Actually, we prefer you guys would kick a little SD ass once in awhile.

I think what gets played on (and not just here) is how a franchise could fall so far. There is a difference between having down spells, and trust us we know them well enough, and becoming a laughingstock.

Regardless, good luck to you too. I look forward to the time the Raiders turn things around.