Tom Brady Was the Most-Hit QB in the League, from 2006-2007

[Deus Irae]

The Giants hit Brady abuot 7,000,000 times in the SB, but other than that you just can't have watched the Patriots and conclude Brady gets hit a high amount of times compared to other NFL QBs unless you dont watch other games and cant see how often they get hit.
Its interesting to note though, that when I rewatched that SB, the sacks were IMO irrelevant to losing the game (or actually much less relevant than many other things) but the biggest issue in the game was how many times he was hit in his throwing motion that redirected the path of the throw. It was A LOT, and cost A LOT of points. There were a ton of plays where Brady was throwing to a wide open receiver and the contact in his throwing motion (to the arm, torso, etc) caused it to be a little or a lot off track. THAT was the primary reason we did not score a boatload of points in that game.

In that game the OP was right, but the issue isn't injury but effectiveness. QBs get hit many times in a season. Over all those seasons Brady was injured basically once. That doesnt mean we should stop playing football and making plays to keep the flujke injury from happening.
If you want to keep Brady healthy to keep the ball in his hands, how does taking the ball out of his hands to keep him healthy make sense?

The O.P. wanted to bash McDaniels. The reasoning didn't matter. It's no coincidence that he fabricated the 'hit less before 2005' argument when he didn't have any data to back that up.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not saying that pressuring the QB is not important. I'm saying that the stat has extraordinarily limited relevance, since we have no idea of what constitutes a pressure, when they're awarded, and whether or not they actually tracked them for everyone. And, whatever they chose to use, we have no clue if it's actually correlated to success in any meaningful way. It's just as likely that they slipped this info to justify the mammoth contract that they signed Freeney to, and Colts fans ran with it.

Likewise, we do know that you don't want your QB getting hit all the time. That said, these statistics don't have any real relevance until and unless we understand what constitutes a hit. Without knowing that, this is all meaningless.

The other part of it is, in the Freeney argument for example, when he stoped getting any sacks, the defenders could immediately say,'yeah but he gets more pressure than anyone' SOLELY becuase there is no way to quantify.
It isn't perfect, but it is conceptually sound that the QB getting sacked the most (or the defender getting the most sacks) is likely also getting the most pressure. It would be an aberation that one DE get 12 sacks, but never gets near the QB otherwise and the other gets 3 sacks and has 90 pressures.

 

[Ring 6]

The O.P. wanted to bash McDaniels. The reasoning didn't matter. It's no coincidence that he fabricated the 'hit less before 2005' argument when he didn't have any data to back that up.

Oh I know the OP was a total sellout to try to use undefined stats as a bashing point to progress and agenda.

 

[Synovia]

The other part of it is, in the Freeney argument for example, when he stoped getting any sacks, the defenders could immediately say,'yeah but he gets more pressure than anyone' SOLELY becuase there is no way to quantify.
It isn't perfect, but it is conceptually sound that the QB getting sacked the most (or the defender getting the most sacks) is likely also getting the most pressure. It would be an aberation that one DE get 12 sacks, but never gets near the QB otherwise and the other gets 3 sacks and has 90 pressures.

Except that Hurries are tracked, and they clearly showed that Freeney was putting on a ton of pressure.


Take a look at footballoutsiders's charting data. Theres plenty of players like him. Theres also a bunch of guys (like Shawn Merriman) who are all or nothing, lots of sacks, very little hurries.

 

[Ring 6]

Except that Hurries are tracked, and they clearly showed that Freeney was putting on a ton of pressure.


Take a look at footballoutsiders's charting data. Theres plenty of players like him. Theres also a bunch of guys (like Shawn Merriman) who are all or nothing, lots of sacks, very little hurries.

no they are not a stat.

 

[DaBruinz]

Smith21 - I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are a gutless wonder who is also unable to do math. Instead of waiting 3 days and sending me an insult on my profile calling me a "******", you should actually read what is posted.

I explained in a previous post how the Pats would be 8th in rushing if you removed Cassel's yards. Not 9th. Yet you still can't figure it out.

Unless 2004 (the number of rushing yards the Jets had) some how became greater than 2008 (the number of rushing yards the Patriots would have without Cassel's rushing yards) the Patriots would be ahead of the Jets. Now, since the Patriots would no longer be 6th, the Titans and Redskins would move up to 6th and 7th respectively and the Patriots would be in ahead of the Jets. So, the Patriots would be 8th.

 

[DaBruinz]

Except that Hurries are tracked, and they clearly showed that Freeney was putting on a ton of pressure.


Take a look at footballoutsiders's charting data. Theres plenty of players like him. Theres also a bunch of guys (like Shawn Merriman) who are all or nothing, lots of sacks, very little hurries.

Hurries are not an official stat. They were a stat created by the Colts to justify paying Freeney the ludicrous contract he got.

 

[MoneyFX]

Well, that's WHY Brady is the BEST today!!!!! He makes the MOST out of his players year in and year out. He won 3 SUPERBOWLS without the star receivers Peyton and many other QBs in the league had!!!! He also gets sacked and hit alot and carries the team on his back!!!! In the 06-07 season, he took his team to the AFC Championship game with Reche Caldwell as his BEST receiver!!!!!!! He even put a beating on the Colts in their own turf until his defense choked up a chock-ful-o points in that game!!!!!!

 

[maverick4]

Oh I know the OP was a total sellout

A 'sellout'? That doesn't even make sense given the definition of the word.

You're just embarrassed for getting caught making up the fact that Brady didn't get hit that much before. Guess your expert eyes deceived you.

 

[maverick4]

I think you can't see the forest through the trees.
The point of the shotgun is to be able to counteract the pass rush. If I put Brady in a 2 back set, and use play action in short yardage, there are going to be defenders that ignore the run

An NFL defender has to respect the run first if that's what is shown as the play develops. If we're playing against such an undisciplined team that doesn't even defend the run, then simply keep running the ball down their throats.

The spread formations expose Brady because he will hold the ball until a receiver gets open. There isn't always that quick slant route whenever we spread the receivers. His fearlessness in the pocket results in more hits taken simply to make the play work.

 

[MoneyFX]

In Super Bowl 42, Josh McDaniels hardly used 2 TE formations which led to 5 Brady sacks, many dropbacks, and many incompletions.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

In Super Bowl 42, Josh McDaniels hardly used 2 TE formations which led to 5 Brady sacks, many dropbacks, and many incompletions.

I see you're new here... Maybe he had a good reason. Thomas was on IR, Kyle Brady was apparently injured and that left Watson and some PS 4th string TE as the options. In a game where Neal went out early and a line that sometimes struggles with solid blocking TE help struggled bigtime against a relentless pass rush that had rotational players who would start elsewhere stepping up big time. That was definitely on Josh...

 

[Deus Irae]

I see you're new here... Maybe he had a good reason. Thomas was on IR, Kyle Brady was apparently injured and that left Watson and some PS 4th string TE as the options. In a game where Neal went out early and a line that sometimes struggles with solid blocking TE help struggled bigtime against a relentless pass rush that had rotational players who would start elsewhere stepping up big time. That was definitely on Josh...

McDaniels' playcalling is the reason for the housing market collapse.

 

[Ring 6]

An NFL defender has to respect the run first if that's what is shown as the play develops. If we're playing against such an undisciplined team that doesn't even defend the run, then simply keep running the ball down their throats.

The spread formations expose Brady because he will hold the ball until a receiver gets open. There isn't always that quick slant route whenever we spread the receivers. His fearlessness in the pocket results in more hits taken simply to make the play work.

You need to study before we can have this discussion. Your lack of knowledge just makes it impossible to discuss the matter.
Lets just say you think that NFL Coaches and OC who run empty backfields either do it to get their QB killed, or have an entirely different opinion than you. (You can even say yours is right if it makes you feel better) And play action works every time, so these coaches can learn from you.
Does that make you happy?

 

[Ring 6]

A 'sellout'? That doesn't even make sense given the definition of the word.

You're just embarrassed for getting caught making up the fact that Brady didn't get hit that much before. Guess your expert eyes deceived you.

Umm, he doesnt get hit that much.
You are the one who provided a stat you refused to define that turned out to be different than what you said it was.

 

[Rob0729]

A 'sellout'? That doesn't even make sense given the definition of the word.

You're just embarrassed for getting caught making up the fact that Brady didn't get hit that much before. Guess your expert eyes deceived you.

Again, add up Brady's hits and sacks and compare them to the rest of the league in terms of hits and sacks before you throw these bombs. I bet when you total everything, Brady is on the lower end of actual times hit.

I still think it is funny that you used to give me crap about using "useless" stats like third down conversions (hey, there are four downs and if you can't make a first down on third down that is what the fourth down is for) which I provided every year since Brady took over the offense yet you have kept this thread going forever based on a misleading stat (you don't have historical data, the stat doesn't differentiate between a minor tap that Brady may not have even been aware of getting hit and the times Brady ends up on his arse, and it doesn't include sacks). Really without any context (which you don't provide) we have spent 32 pages arguing about a stat that really doesn't mean anything other than an angle for a blogger to write a story in the slow season (which he argues without a lot of context either) and more fuel to indirectly bash McDaniels for you.

This is really just a desperate attempt to keep the McDaniels bashing going even if you didn't mention him by name in your original post. The fact of the matter is, without any context I don't see any legitimate argument to change how Brady runs this offense. You provide historical data, the number of times Brady is significantly hit opposed to incidental contact, and/or how Brady stacks up to the rest of the league when you combine hits and sacks; I think you are arguing about your perception of how McDaniels screwed up the offense and let Brady get exposed rather than the reality of the situation.

I really don't see there being anything left to argue until you back up your claims.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

McDaniels' playcalling is the reason for the housing market collapse.

This one made me snort out loud!!!

by the way, its Bruce Arians play calling that destroyed the hoursing market. Just ask any new Steelers fans on our forum.

Could be Willie Parker helped destroy the banks too.

 

[maverick4]

Umm, he doesnt get hit that much.
You are the one who provided a stat you refused to define

He doesn't get hit much cause you said so? You continue to make claims backed by nothing besides your own deceiving eyes. You also haven't explained your bizarre accusation that I'm "selling out" by posting the original link.

I'm not refusing to define the stat, it was compiled independently from a separate source. You can see how they defined it for yourself. Compiling and counting hits taken is a heck of a lot more scientific than the "fact" you've been spewing about Tom Brady not taking many hits, just because you aren't seeing it yourself.

 

[Ring 6]

He doesn't get hit much cause you said so? You continue to make claims backed by nothing besides your own deceiving eyes. You also haven't explained your bizarre accusation that I'm "selling out" by posting the original link.

I'm not refusing to define the stat, it was compiled independently from a separate source. You can see how they defined it for yourself. Compiling and counting hits taken is a heck of a lot more scientific than the "fact" you've been spewing about Tom Brady not taking many hits, just because you aren't seeing it yourself.

I dont need a stat to tell me what I see for myself.
The sellout was that you misrepresented a piece of an article to promote your agenda against McDaniel. Your purpose wasn't discussing the article, but using it to create another way to trash the OC who led the highest scoring offense in history, then accomplished what he did last year with a QB who hadnt started a game since high school.

 

[maverick4]

I dont need a stat to tell me what I see for myself.

OK you win. There's no point arguing with an armchair expert who judges everything with his own eyes and dismisses any possible stats on the subject.

You're also wrong about the intention of this thread. McKid is already gone to show his immaturity and lack of situational awareness with another team. The offense is already going to be different with his departure and a new coordinator.