Bledsoe or Cassel

[upstater1]

The 4th quarter huh?
Bledose was 3/8 for 29 yards. Woohooo what a studly performance. On the drive you are talking about he was 3/7 4 yards, 7 yards and 18. It sounds like you think that making ONE GOOD THROW on an 18 yard gain equates to playing well?
It seems that your standard is that if you can find one thing he did that was NFL starting QB caliber then he was good. There were many, many other things he did that were bad, and overall it was a bad performance. 3 points in a half in a very close game is poor no matter how many excuse you want. You can pretend that BB held the offense back because its a nice to create another Drewscuse, but he threw 18 times in that 2nd half, hardly a conservative gameplan. (The fact that he only completed 7 of them is the problem)

So, we should jump up and down because he was able to get 2 first downs in the 4th quarter? Isnt that his job. No, actually his job was to score points. After that drive the D got an Int and handed Bledsoe the ball, at the Pitt 34 with 2:41 left and a 7 point lead. 2 runs brought a 3rd and 8 and Bledsoe threw incomplete into double coverage leaving a long, missed FG.

I don't get it. You seem to be trying to prove that Bledsoe did a better job than Mike Grerenburg could have done. Perhaps that was your standard? Mine was playing like a competant professional QB. By my standard, he played poorly, by yours a play or 2 of competance makes him great.

As for the Drewscuse, you're telling me the QB stats that postseason (AFCC and Super Bowl) were good?

Brady went 10-19 for 92 yards before the last drive of the Super Bowl.

Clearly, the Patriots were playing tight to the vest, as both games played out similarly with the Patriots jumping out to big leads due to special teams and defensive play.

The shackles were taken off the O when the Steelers and Rams came back.

 

[Double G]

Drew told him to do otherwise.



How am I supposed to take that? It a figurative sense? As a joke? You were arguing about Bledsoe value to that Championship. These words were CLEARLY meant to say Bledsoe overrode the coaching staff and Brady chose to listen to Drew.

NO, that is CLEARLY NOT WHAT I meant.

Brady was laughing about it.

Or, listen to PatJew as he's got the entire episode memorized (how wonderful).

Now you are putting words in my mouth; I'm out, this *********** is over IMO, 22+ pages of wasted server space..............

 

[Ring 6]

Mike Grerenburg? Huh?

My standard was that he was playing a terrific defense, the offense was the most conservative offense in history (moreso than the Tampa offense a year later) and he made clutch plays when he needed them. A competent QB would not have made the plays he did. You needed a QB who could make incredible throws with his arm. I don't think Cassel could have made those throws.

Brady competed 12 of 18 that day. Bledsoe completed 7 of 18 in the second half.
Please stop the hyperbole it just cheapens your argument. Most conservative offense in history is plain ignorant. It wasnt even the most conservative offense in its own division that season.
A competant QB would complete at least 7 of 18.
The throws were normal throws that a QB has to make. You have now recreated history by saying even though he could only must completing 48% of his passes, and 39% in the second half, those 7 must have been the greatest 7 throws in NFL history.
They were the throws a QB makes. He completed 7 of 18.
How incredible was the throw that hit the LB between the #s?

Again, your argument is akin to saying a guy who completes 1 pass all day was good because it was one really nice pass, and that overcomes all of the bad ones.

Someone listed here that he made 9 mistakes on 21 attempts. How does 1 good pass (that was not special anyway) overcome that in your mind.

 

[Ring 6]

As for the Drewscuse, you're telling me the QB stats that postseason (AFCC and Super Bowl) were good?

Brady went 10-19 for 92 yards before the last drive of the Super Bowl.

Clearly, the Patriots were playing tight to the vest, as both games played out similarly with the Patriots jumping out to big leads due to special teams and defensive play.

The shackles were taken off the O when the Steelers and Rams came back.

What about the game before that? When Brady threw the most passes ever in a playoff game? Was that the same most conservative offense in history?

You realize 10/19/92 is a lot better than 7/19/66 right?

 

[upstater1]

You said clutch throwS. We all know that you feel the 18 yard pass to Troy Brown is a ticket to the Hall of Fame. Where are the others? He only also complete 7 and 4 yard passes to the fb and te.

How can one pass (one that I expect him to make) turn 7/18/66 with 3 points scored in a half of football into good, unless your rule is good QB play is finding a single pass that was on target.

For the same reason Brady deserved the MVP in the Super Bowl. Because when the game got tight, and the QB had to make the play to win the game, Bledsoe made it. Let's not get into hyperbole here, I didn't insult you, no need to go "ticket to the HOF!" on me. I was a big Brady fan that year and thought he was the reason for the Patriots turn around, and I agree Bledsoe's decision-making was a problem. Nonetheless, we're comparing Cassel to Bledsoe here, and yes I'd take Bledsoe in the clutch. Bledsoe was ALWAYS a clutch QB who lead the team on many comebacks, and he was second to Elway (and ahead of Favre) in that category during the period that the three competed against one another.

All these QBs who excelled at comebacks had their INT problems, Favre and Elway included. I'm not saying Bledsoe is in that category with the other guys, but I certainly see him ahead of Cassel.

I'm also not saying he plaeyd well because of one throw, but -- if you go back in this thread and see my post without taking it out of context -- I said he had a good 2nd and 4th quarter.

The difference here is that you expect a QB like Cassel to make that throw to Troy Brown. I'm saying that I highly highly doubt that Cassel could make such a throw. The Pittsburgh defense of that year reminded me of the Pittsburgh defense that Cassel faced this year.

 

[Ring 6]

NO, that is CLEARLY NOT WHAT I meant.

Brady was laughing about it.

Or, listen to PatJew as he's got the entire episode memorized (how wonderful).

Now you are putting words in my mouth; I'm out, this *********** is over IMO, 22+ pages of wasted server space..............

How can you get upset at me when I retype your own words, and then you say the words you used weren't what you meant. And have the nerve to add CLEARLY.

CLEARLY you wrote it. Very UNclearly you are now saying you didnt mean it.

 

[Double G]

General rule of thumb: when you get so frustrated and worked up that you're typing in ALLCAPS out of pure anger, it's probably you that ought to turn off the computer for a few. Seriously, I think you'd understand where everyone else is coming from on this if you let go of whatever emotional attachment you have to the issue for a bit. You're perceiving some agenda to tear down Bledsoe where there just isn't one. Nobody's trying to be calculating or malicious here, we're simply stating a pretty dry and simple opinion: that Bledsoe was not the right QB for Belichick's philosophy. That's it.

Excellent advice, thanks for that.

My point in all of this is it is my personal opinion (which I have a right to express) that Bledsoe is a whipping boy in this town and my only point is we are all fans of the team and he was a member of that team, a member who came off the bench ice cold having sat for 15 weeks, did some good things, some bad things, but overall contributed to the Patriots moving on to the Super Bowl.

This team and this franchise was in the toilet before he showed up here; what direction would the franchise have gone if Mirer was taken instead of Drew, food for thought.


And thanks again for the advice.

 

[Double G]

How can you get upset at me when I retype your own words, and then you say the words you used weren't what you meant. And have the nerve to add CLEARLY.

CLEARLY you wrote it. Very UNclearly you are now saying you didnt mean it.

CLEARLY you've got an agenda towards Bledsoe, Ray Charles could see it.


Drew got traded away after the season and Brady has become a superstar, so come in off the ledge and go to your happy place, it turned out just swell for all concerned.

 

[Ring 6]

For the same reason Brady deserved the MVP in the Super Bowl. Because when the game got tight, and the QB had to make the play to win the game, Bledsoe made it. Let's not get into hyperbole here, I didn't insult you, no need to go "ticket to the HOF!" on me. I was a big Brady fan that year and thought he was the reason for the Patriots turn around, and I agree Bledsoe's decision-making was a problem. Nonetheless, we're comparing Cassel to Bledsoe here, and yes I'd take Bledsoe in the clutch. Bledsoe was ALWAYS a clutch QB who lead the team on many comebacks, and he was second to Elway (and ahead of Favre) in that category during the period that the three competed against one another.

All these QBs who excelled at comebacks had their INT problems, Favre and Elway included. I'm not saying Bledsoe is in that category with the other guys, but I certainly see him ahead of Cassel.

I'm also not saying he plaeyd well because of one throw, but -- if you go back in this thread and see my post without taking it out of context -- I said he had a good 2nd and 4th quarter.

The difference here is that you expect a QB like Cassel to make that throw to Troy Brown. I'm saying that I highly highly doubt that Cassel could make such a throw. The Pittsburgh defense of that year reminded me of the Pittsburgh defense that Cassel faced this year.

You keep saying he had a good 2nd and 4th quarter. In the 2nd he threw 3 passes. It wa a good 40 yards, thats all he played.
Int he 4th he was 3/8/29. How can that be called good.
You want to turn one pass that a QB IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE in a good quarter when aside from that one he was 2/7 for 11 yards. Come on, you know better.

I am not trashing Bledsoe, I just cant buy that the way he played that day is part of the argument in his favor. It simply isn't/

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady competed 12 of 18 that day. Bledsoe completed 7 of 18 in the second half.
Please stop the hyperbole it just cheapens your argument. Most conservative offense in history is plain ignorant. It wasnt even the most conservative offense in its own division that season.
A competant QB would complete at least 7 of 18.
The throws were normal throws that a QB has to make. You have now recreated history by saying even though he could only must completing 48% of his passes, and 39% in the second half, those 7 must have been the greatest 7 throws in NFL history.
They were the throws a QB makes. He completed 7 of 18.
How incredible was the throw that hit the LB between the #s?

Again, your argument is akin to saying a guy who completes 1 pass all day was good because it was one really nice pass, and that overcomes all of the bad ones.

Someone listed here that he made 9 mistakes on 21 attempts. How does 1 good pass (that was not special anyway) overcome that in your mind.

Most of the arguments here have been ignorant, yours included. That's what happens when bias replaces reason.

 

[upstater1]

What about the game before that? When Brady threw the most passes ever in a playoff game? Was that the same most conservative offense in history?

You realize 10/19/92 is a lot better than 7/19/66 right?

It is better.

But, the Steelers D outclassed the Rams by a mile.

AND, the yardage is about the same. Brady played the entire Super Bowl after all.

As for the Raiders game, we can go back through the whole thing again and say, why did the Patriots have the offense under wraps for 3 quarters? Why didn't they let Brady rear back and throw 10 consecutive times like he did in the 4th quarter? I couldn't get the play-by-play for that game but I noticed that the Patriots had less than 150 yards before the 4th quarter. The conditions were horrible of course, but the fact they couldn't run, and the passing game was moribund, lead me to believe that they turned it on when they fell behind.

 

[Ring 6]

For the same reason Brady deserved the MVP in the Super Bowl. Because when the game got tight, and the QB had to make the play to win the game, Bledsoe made it. Let's not get into hyperbole here, I didn't insult you, no need to go "ticket to the HOF!" on me. I was a big Brady fan that year and thought he was the reason for the Patriots turn around, and I agree Bledsoe's decision-making was a problem. Nonetheless, we're comparing Cassel to Bledsoe here, and yes I'd take Bledsoe in the clutch. Bledsoe was ALWAYS a clutch QB who lead the team on many comebacks, and he was second to Elway (and ahead of Favre) in that category during the period that the three competed against one another.

All these QBs who excelled at comebacks had their INT problems, Favre and Elway included. I'm not saying Bledsoe is in that category with the other guys, but I certainly see him ahead of Cassel.

I'm also not saying he plaeyd well because of one throw, but -- if you go back in this thread and see my post without taking it out of context -- I said he had a good 2nd and 4th quarter.

The difference here is that you expect a QB like Cassel to make that throw to Troy Brown. I'm saying that I highly highly doubt that Cassel could make such a throw. The Pittsburgh defense of that year reminded me of the Pittsburgh defense that Cassel faced this year.

But Brady was the MVP because he led the game winning drive.
That isnt the same as completing one pass from your 20 yard line to keep a drive going while your defense and special teams overcome you only putting 3 points on the board in the half.

 

[upstater1]

Brady competed 12 of 18 that day. Bledsoe completed 7 of 18 in the second half.
Please stop the hyperbole it just cheapens your argument. Most conservative offense in history is plain ignorant. It wasnt even the most conservative offense in its own division that season.
A competant QB would complete at least 7 of 18.
The throws were normal throws that a QB has to make. You have now recreated history by saying even though he could only must completing 48% of his passes, and 39% in the second half, those 7 must have been the greatest 7 throws in NFL history.
They were the throws a QB makes. He completed 7 of 18.
How incredible was the throw that hit the LB between the #s?

Again, your argument is akin to saying a guy who completes 1 pass all day was good because it was one really nice pass, and that overcomes all of the bad ones.

Someone listed here that he made 9 mistakes on 21 attempts. How does 1 good pass (that was not special anyway) overcome that in your mind.

You've totally distorted my argument, and then pretended I made it, and then you call it hyperbolic, when you write things like, "One pass to the Hall of Fame." I mean, you're just making stuff up and pretending that I'm saying it.

How can anyone possibly have a conversation with you?

 

[upstater1]

But Brady was the MVP because he led the game winning drive.
That isnt the same as completing one pass from your 20 yard line to keep a drive going while your defense and special teams overcome you only putting 3 points on the board in the half.

When you're ahead, there's a big difference. You're not going to lead the team on a game winning drive when all you need to do is keep the drive going, let the air out of the ball.

What did Brady say about the near sack on the throw to Redmond? He said a sack there and they take the air out of the ball. That's exactly it, you have to look at the game situation. Being ahead is far different than being tied.

 

[upstater1]

But Brady was the MVP because he led the game winning drive.
That isnt the same as completing one pass from your 20 yard line to keep a drive going while your defense and special teams overcome you only putting 3 points on the board in the half.

It's so odd that you'll say the team overcame putting up only 3 points in a half, and yet you would never use those same words to describe Brady's 3 points in a half or zero points in a half against the Raiders.

 

[upstater1]

But in all honesty, you dont know if because you saw a flag on TV, the QB saw it from the pocket. The vantage points are night and day. I remember almost shltting my pants when he chucked it up there, so I know I didnt know there was a penalty.
In any event, I think we can all agree that the move was not smart, and we escaped it anyway, although getting a first down on the defensive hlding would have been nice.

Escaped what? There COULDN'T be an interception on that play. I aw it clear as day that the ref threw a flag for a takedown, and it was right in front of Bledsoe.

 

[upstater1]

The 2008 team tied for the best record ever by a Bledsoe team.
With us he was 11-5 once.
He was 10-6 twice
9-7 once
8-8 once
6-10 once
5-11 twice

Are you saying that every team Bledsoe ever played wasnt close to as good as the 2008 Pats? You are saying Bledsoe was much better, so those teams must have all been substantially worse.
What about the 2001 team that Drew was 0-2 with and Brady was 11-3 with, a better record than any Drew bledsoe QB'd team ever had.

I really don't enjoy pointing out all of Drews shortcomings, but damn you just dare me to.

I can't believe you're even trying to argue that you can compare the 2000 team to the 2008 team.

Here's something I know: when Belichick was a coach here in 1996, the Patriots went 11-5. Was the 2008 Belichick team better than the 1996 team? Without a doubt in my mind. That 2008 team was composed of battle-tested vets and Pro Bowl players and Super Bowl winners. The 1996 team was coming off a 5-11 season (something we haven't seen in a decade). We were lucky that Jax took Denver out. As for the Pete Carroll years, really, what more needs to be said?

Your point about 2001 is just preposterous. Uh, has anyone here argued that Brady isn't an infinitely better QB than Bledsoe?

 

[ScottieC]

Here's what Cassel has done : he was the main reason the Pats went 11-5 last season. Here's what Bledsoe has done this decade : won fewer games in more attempts.

You're right - Cassel is far superior.

Not only does your "decade" comparison make sooooo much sense - I'll give you another reason to pick Cassel: Cassel did not loose a SUPER BOWL!!!!

Good stuff. Your football intellect has no equal.

 

[upstater1]

Your the one who said it was a free play, now you are the one saying you read Bledsoes mind that he only threw the ball over his shoulder to avoid a sack because he knew it was a penalty. IF that was the case, why ground it? You would get the penalty.
The 'proof' isnt that you remember he must have seen it.

I didn't think he was grounding it. I thought he was trying to throw it up. It did go past the line of scrimmage, after all.

 

[upstater1]

Forget about what we think. Fan assessments are clouded by all manner of emotions. This is how his coaches assessed his performance:



So 9 of his 21 attempts constituted poor plays. That was one of the reasons over the course of his career his regular season attempts and yards boggled the mind while his completion %, TD to INT ratio and QB rating were pedestrian to say the least. Over that same career his playoff performance was less than pedestrian. He served a purpose, as did Parcells here. But he was no more a championship caliber QB for a Belichick coached team than Tuna was a championship caliber HC for a Kraft owned team. And those who persist in remembering him as something other than what he was - say as a tough luck QB who lacked weapons or consistent coaching or the kind of opportunities Brady is portrayed as having stumbled into or he too would have won us championships - are just letting their fond emotions cloud their judgement.

We advanced to the Superbowl in 2001 because the Steelers had a really bad day and we won the turnover battle because our QB's didn't make any costly mistakes and Troy Brown had a game for the ages. Replace Brady with 2001 Bledsoe or 2008 Cassel on that day with that same cast on both sides of the field and we still win. Replace Brady with Bledsoe a week later and we end up losing in OT if not on a pick 6 with a minute remaining in regulation... Replace 2008 Cassel with 2001 Bledsoe last season and we don't win 11 games, which in almost any other season guarantees a playoff spot if not the division.

What sold Kraft on Belichick was his grasp of the fact that in the salary cap era you could not build a consistent winner around a handful of complacent overhyped talents. You needed adaptable player/leaders. What sold Belichick on Brady was he was that. What finally ended Drew's career with the guy who drafted him was he could never be that. That's always the knock on the gunslinger. They can improvise some classic sports center moments both good and bad. In fact the 11 yard completion to Brown in the 4th was an improvisation. They generally cannot perform well consistently enough within the confines of a system to justify the compensation they command for their mere posession of a level of god given talent. Particularly not in NE under BB.

Drew had only just turned 30 when he left here. He had two more chances over 5 more years to prove it wasn't him... He was DONE at 34 because it was.

Thanks for comparing Brady to Bledsoe.

Now back to the thread.