Will BB attempt to fix the pass rush?

[slash83]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Only way the pass rush gets fixed is by BB bringing in better players, wont happen with the current crop no matter what.

 

[Seneschal2]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Yes, by addressing the TEAM DEFENSE.

DE, OLB, ILB, will probably be the three primary positions of focus, while CB may also be addressed. There was an inconsistency with the team D this past season, moreso than just a lack of pass rush.

BB is not a slacker. He'll attempt to address all areas of concern via FA and the draft, given whatever opportunities are available. He'll hit on some upgrades and may miss on others...but the effort to improve all three phases of the game will be existent.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Yes, by addressing the TEAM DEFENSE.

DE, OLB, ILB, will probably be the three primary positions of focus, while CB may also be addressed. There was an inconsistency with the team D this past season, moreso than just a lack of pass rush.

BB is not a slacker. He'll attempt to address all areas of concern via FA and the draft, given whatever opportunities are available. He'll hit on some upgrades and may miss on others...but the effort to improve all three phases of the game will be existent.

:agree: Well said.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

With a strong threat at OLB, Greens numbers will go up. He is only 30 years old, and we saw what he was capable of a few years ago. He can still produce at a high level.

Ehhh, I don't know if I can agree on this. Usually, in our system, the OLB's improve when the DE improves. Green had both TBC and AD coming in behind him all year long. TBC obviously did well for us this season, AD not so much. However, AD is still big, fast, strong, and is able to take on blockers one on one if need be (which he was doing a lot) and Green still didn't benefit from it. He managed 36 tackles despite the fact that teams were mostly running the ball down his throat (opting to run to that side more often than running on Warren's side). He also only managed one sack all season. I know he was injured, but even then... one sack for a guy who specializes in disrupting the passing game shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

You find any statistic that you can manipulate into a seeming negative for the Patriots to be "more revealing". It's because you're agenda driven rather than information driven.

I find Sacks/per Pass Attempt more revealing in general, not because it may reflect negatively on the NEP. If a tally is kept regarding Hits/per Pass Attempt, then that would also be more revealing of pass-rush effectiveness than a simple year-end total.

Besides, my Agenda is driven by the Information I have read, heard and - especially - seen for myself.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I think Jarvis Green is capable of this, IMO he is a very underrated player

Jarvis is unfortunately finished as a 3-4 DE pass-rusher, and was never very stout vs. the run. I would be shocked and very disappointed if he is re-signed. Acquiring a pass-rushing 3-4 DE should be near the top of Bill's To-Do list.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I find Sacks/per Pass Attempt more revealing in general, not because it may reflect negatively on the NEP. If a tally is kept regarding Hits/per Pass Attempt, then that would also be more revealing of pass-rush effectiveness than a simple year-end total.

Besides, my Agenda is driven by the Information I have read, heard and - especially - seen for myself.

No, your agenda is bashing the current Patriots administration, regardless of the logic and/or accuracy of your bashing. It's pathetic, really.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Jarvis is unfortunately finished as a 3-4 DE pass-rusher, and was never very stout vs. the run. I would be shocked and very disappointed if he is re-signed. Acquiring a pass-rushing 3-4 DE should be near the top of Bill's To-Do list.

Why is he finished as a 3-4 DE pass rusher? He is only 30 years old. He still has a few years left in the tank.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Ehhh, I don't know if I can agree on this. Usually, in our system, the OLB's improve when the DE improves. Green had both TBC and AD coming in behind him all year long. TBC obviously did well for us this season, AD not so much. However, AD is still big, fast, strong, and is able to take on blockers one on one if need be (which he was doing a lot) and Green still didn't benefit from it. He managed 36 tackles despite the fact that teams were mostly running the ball down his throat (opting to run to that side more often than running on Warren's side). He also only managed one sack all season. I know he was injured, but even then... one sack for a guy who specializes in disrupting the passing game shouldn't be overlooked.

It can be said in any system that when the DE improves the OLB improves and also vise versa. The way I see it if we pick up a DE we dont have anyone for him to benefit. AD's days as a Patriot are over and we dont have anyone else out there besides TBC who had his best season even with the lack of a DE. If we add a quality OLB, we have Jarvis Green to benefit from that. He is only 30 years old, he can still definitely make plays. If the only need on this team was a pass rush then we could add 2 players to help this, but unfortunately the team has more needs other than just a pass rush. We cannot spend most of our off season moves on improving the pass rush. Fixing the pass rush will take 2 seasons I believe, this off season and next. The best acquisition for us this off season would be an OLB then next off season we can look for a quality DE.

With that being said, if the opportunity for a quality value pick/signing of a DE presents its self I would hope the Patriots will be all over it. But to me we cannot have too many big signings/high draft picks addressing the pass rush since we have other pressing needs as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The lack of pass rush has been a concern the past two seasons, not just 2009. The Pats haven't produced a decent passrush since they let Willie McGinest walk. And I'm not attributing that all to the loss of McGinest, I think the defense in general declined and the Pats just have not replaced the production.

Although a passrushing OLB like a Demarcus Ware or an Orakpo looks like an obvious solution, passrushing can come from many positions, including, DE, OLB, ILB, etc. The Pats also need to retain Wilfork for the defense, otherwise, they will lose the sole player that commands double teams on the DL. When you have guys that command double teams, that frees up other players to pressure the passer because there are now less blockers in the way.

I think that these things are fairly obvious to BB. He's not a dunce. But I'd like to see him proactive in the offseason in addressing the passrush issue. And as I mentioned, there's more than one way to skin that cat. Adding a DC with aggressive, innovative scheming would also help. Pees implementation of the defense schemes was too soft and left a lot to be desired. Especially when you consider BB felt he had to go for it on 4th and 2 because of lack of confidence in his own D in the 4th quarter.

 

[Brarrell]

the lack of pass rush has been a concern the past two seasons, not just 2009. The pats haven't produced a decent passrush since they let willie mcginest walk. And i'm not attributing that all to the loss of mcginest, i think the defense in general declined and the pats just have not replaced the production.

Although a passrushing olb like a demarcus ware or an orakpo looks like an obvious solution, passrushing can come from many positions, including, de, olb, ilb, etc. The pats also need to retain wilfork for the defense, otherwise, they will lose the sole player that commands double teams on the dl. When you have guys that command double teams, that frees up other players to pressure the passer because there are now less blockers in the way.

I think that these things are fairly obvious to bb. He's not a dunce. But i'd like to see him proactive in the offseason in addressing the passrush issue. And as i mentioned, there's more than one way to skin that cat. Adding a dc with aggressive, innovative scheming would also help. Pees implementation of the defense schemes was too soft and left a lot to be desired. Especially when you consider bb felt he had to go for it on 4th and 2 because of lack of confidence in his own d in the 4th quarter.

this is all about the owners they don't want to spend the money period! They got rid of seymour and wilfork is next. He will eventually play next year under the franchise tag but he won't be a happy camper asante samuel all over again. The day brady leaves this franchise is done and the decline of the pats has started. Sorry this is how i feel everything in caps.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Why is he finished as a 3-4 DE pass rusher? He is only 30 years old. He still has a few years left in the tank.

He was invisible this season, and is starting to break down. It's the beginning of a Derrick Burgess-flavored trend.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

He was invisible this season, and is starting to break down. It's the beginning of a Derrick Burgess-flavored trend.

He didnt produce as much this season as much as others for a few reasons. One being he was hurt and he missed a few games. The other was a lack of a dominant pass rusher from the OLB position. I have addressed this before and have said that his production will go up when we have an OLB that can put pressure on the QB. Right now teams can put 2 guys on Green and not have to worry about an OLB getting pressure, with an OLB that can provide pressure offenses can not devote 2 guys to Green and that will free Green up to produce more sacks and pressure.

 

[Teenuh]

Seems like the lasy few years we wonder when were going to get a passrusher here.
We look at all the draft prospects and wonder which one they will pick, but they never do.

We hope they get one in free agency, which they did in 2007, signing AD coming off back to back double digit sack seasons. But instead of seeing him come off the edge he was turned into an ILB who stays in coverage. The one game he was let loose as a Patriot was the Super Bowl. Where he was the best pats player on the field (sans Welker). Yet 2008 was more of the same (remember what he did to favre week 2).

Last offseason Vrabel is traded, and we were all on here saying BB is up to something and has a plan. Then FA went by (dont say BB signed Tully as the passrush fix), draft went by, abd most of training camp went by....and the answer
to the passrush was trading a 3rd and 5th for a 31 year old whose sacks have steadily declined.
Then turn around a week later and trade your best passrusher on the defensive line.
So do you guys think BB will make passrush a priority this offseason?
Or will we be here in august talking up woods and crable again.

I still think trading Vrabel was a mistake but hopefully BB really does have a plan and will fix the defense problems. If not, I think we may have another season like this one.

 

[mgteich]

The patriots pay within a aoucple of million of the cap every year, and usually carryover what they don't use. It's just not the case that the patriots leave money unspent. It is a matter of which patriot players get that money.

this is all about the owners they don't want to spend the money period! They got rid of seymour and wilfork is next. He will eventually play next year under the franchise tag but he won't be a happy camper asante samuel all over again. The day brady leaves this franchise is done and the decline of the pats has started. Sorry this is how i feel everything in caps.

 

[RayClay]

I would love to get a monster pass rusher, but I think more talent at LB, Wilfork and another top DL would give us enough with TBC and Burgess.

Our line and LB core were weakened and this impacte our pass rush IMO. I don't think we;ve had any exceptional 1 on 1 rushers other than McGinest in our run, but we've had 3 linemen that demanded doubles at times and linebackers who could rush up the middle when it's there and were solid overall.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

The only way that BB is going to fix the pass rush with this current group is to sneak in a 12th man after the snap. Maybe the refs wont notice. Even then I wouldn't guarantee that would work.

 

[mgteich]

Now that is a strawman if I every saw one.

NO ONE is suggesting fixing the passrush with our current group.
EVERYONE would like to see improvements as we replace at least the following
Green
Seau
Thomas

The only way that BB is going to fix the pass rush with this current group is to sneak in a 12th man after the snap. Maybe the refs wont notice. Even then I wouldn't guarantee that would work.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Now that is a strawman if I every saw one.

NO ONE is suggesting fixing the passrush with our current group.
EVERYONE would like to see improvements as we replace at least the following
Green
Seau
Thomas

After 8 pages of replies, a joke to break up the monotony wouldn't hurt.

 

[Deus Irae]

The patriots pay within a aoucple of million of the cap every year, and usually carryover what they don't use. It's just not the case that the patriots leave money unspent. It is a matter of which patriot players get that money.

They obviously do leave money unspent. That's undeniable to anyone who's looked at the actual payouts. The question isn't whether that happens. The question is whether or not that happening has any real negative effect on the team. Generally speaking, the answer has been no, but there have clearly been some exceptions (Branch and Samuel are two that are pretty obvious).