Under the radar ... Stevan Ridley

[JackBauer]

Because it's nonsensical to claim that a player who rushed for over 1000 yards, was the 16th ranked rusher in the NFL for yards and 2nd ranked rusher for TD's in the NFL lacks talent, as another has suggested in favor of a rookie with 4 quarters of total exposure. There's no balance to that argument. None whatsoever.

I said he lacked talent vis a vis what you'd want out of your RB1. BJGE certainly has talent. He's just not dynamic enough of a player you'd ideally want leading a competing team's rushing attack.

My only contention is that BJGE needs recognition as the talented footballer that he is for the Patriots. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can only speak for myself in that my eyes tell me Ridley is more talented; whether that translates to NFL success or not remains to be seen.

 

[ausbacker]

I said he lacked talent vis a vis what you'd want out of your RB1. BJGE certainly has talent. He's just not dynamic enough of a player you'd ideally want leading a competing team's rushing attack.

Follow the rest of the conversation JB. It's an evident theme, one which I vehemently disagree with.

I'm not concerned by people claiming BJGE isn't dynamic enough. He doesn't have to be given what the Patriots generally ask him to do. Woodhead fills into the dynamic RB role nicely. BGJE is the bruiser and I'd be more than happy for Ridley to take the dynamic play making role because as mentioned, he's a volcano who looks ready to explode on every play (despite our short exposure). I'm very happy with our RB situation atm further proving BB knows what's up.

People need to get away from the fact that I'm "supporting" BJGE. I have no issue replacing him with Ridley, Vereen or Woodhead. I'm more in favor of the committee approach as Ridley, Woodhead & Green-Ellis all bring a different dynamic to the Patriots running and passing games.

According to Miguel's numbers, the cap hits for BJGE (1.9 million), Woodhead (700k), Vereen (630K) & Ridley (540K) provide us with a great deal of versatility and production for price. Use them all where appropriate. On face value that seems to be a great mix.

I can only speak for myself in that my eyes tell me Ridley is more talented; whether that translates to NFL success or not remains to be seen.

I'm not going to agree with this because Ridley's had 4 quarters of observation. After week 12 I'd be happy to revisit this and discuss further.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That would explain Vereen, but I don't think it explains Ridley. I simply think he wanted more talent at the position, as I said earlier, in a type of RB that opposing teams need to gameplan for. BJGE is a nice RB and all, but I think when you're talking playoff football against the better defenses in the league, he's not the type of guy who's going to put you over the top.

You're ignoring what I said about the non-Faulk position. The primary intent of 22 is replacing Sammy Morris and Fred Taylor.

 

[Patspsycho]

I have no bias whatsoever. I'm just a realist. We've likely seen Benji's ceiling, it's not a bad ceiling, just lots of room for improvement.

So you're saying 1,000 yards, 13 TDs, and 4.3 YPC is an unimpressive ceiling?

Again, as I've pointed out many times, I readily admit that BJGE is not a game-changer, he's not a burner, but he is a grinder, he's consistent, and he is a bruiser. What is wrong with that?

 

[Patspsycho]

If we had Adrian Peterson, would you be in favor of splitting carries 50/50 with BJGE?

I wouldn't want a loudmouth $100 million dollar man here, complaining about not getting the ball more. We're fine with what we got.

 

[Patspsycho]

He has limited talent, that should be apparent to anyone who has watched him play a few games. Kinda like the Reche Caldwell of RBs.

Caldwell was nowhere near being the 2nd top scoring WR. BJGE was the 2nd top scoring RB.

 

[Patspsycho]

That would explain Vereen, but I don't think it explains Ridley. I simply think he wanted more talent at the position, as I said earlier, in a type of RB that opposing teams need to gameplan for. BJGE is a nice RB and all, but I think when you're talking playoff football against the better defenses in the league, he's not the type of guy who's going to put you over the top.

I think that it would be infinitely harder to gameplan for 3 RBs with different styles, Woodhead out of the HB shotgun, BJGE out of the traditional one back, and Ridley who is a screen threat.

If you only had one main RB, Ridley, that's less game-planning.

By having 3 different RBs, you are keeping each one fresh, and extending their shelf life, and best of all, you can keep smashing the D without letting up because your RB is out of breath or hurting.

 

[ausbacker]

I wouldn't want a loudmouth $100 million dollar man here, complaining about not getting the ball more. We're fine with what we got.

I have to be honest and say that Peterson would be a beast at New England, however the economics of bringing him to the Patriots would be incredibly difficult.

 

[Joker]

I think in years to come, Ridley is going to be such a good back that the Boston media will be using "Ridley's Believe It Or Not" as a lead in to articles on the sports page.

 

[Patspsycho]

I have to be honest and say that Peterson would be a beast at New England, however the economics of bringing him to the Patriots would be incredibly difficult.

Understood, but his team is 0-4. Just goes to say that a superstar RB isn't everything.

 

[JJDChE]

I think it best that you simply shut up and remove yourself from this conversation now.

Why don't you answer my question? Would you really use BJGE in a committee with ADP? I don't care what his salary is, or if we'd ever sign him, this is a hypothetical question. If you had the best back in the NFL on your team along with BJGE, would you be giving BJGE a signifcant number of carries?

So you're saying 1,000 yards, 13 TDs, and 4.3 YPC is an unimpressive ceiling?

Considering the situation, yes. He's on a team that has the best QB in the NFL. Teams don't gameplan against our running attack. 4.3 ypc is marginal considering that fact. 13TDs is mostly driven by opportunity. Yes, part of it is that BJGE is good in short yardage, but it's mostly due to the fact that we score a ton of points and he probably got more goalline opportunities than any other back in the NFL...by a lot.

Again, as I've pointed out many times, I readily admit that BJGE is not a game-changer, he's not a burner, but he is a grinder, he's consistent, and he is a bruiser. What is wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it (how many times do I have to say this?). The thing is, Ridley is touted as a bruiser AND he has game changing ability, at least a bit more than BJGE. Why wouldn't you prefer the guy with BOTH skills to be getting the majority of the carries?

I wouldn't want a loudmouth $100 million dollar man here, complaining about not getting the ball more. We're fine with what we got.

You know it was a hypothetical question, right?

Caldwell was nowhere near being the 2nd top scoring WR. BJGE was the 2nd top scoring RB.

Similar in talent level. Decent stop gaps until something better comes along.

I think that it would be infinitely harder to gameplan for 3 RBs with different styles, Woodhead out of the HB shotgun, BJGE out of the traditional one back, and Ridley who is a screen threat.

Infinitely harder, really?

We'll use Ridley in pretty much the exact same way as BJGE. I don't see how they'd game plan any differently, except that they might actually have to gameplan a little bit for Ridley. I can't see anyone gameplanning for BJGE. He's the most predictable RB in the NFL. He gets the ball, runs into the hole, runs straight ahead until he hits someone then falls forward.

If you only had one main RB, Ridley, that's less game-planning.

By having 3 different RBs, you are keeping each one fresh, and extending their shelf life, and best of all, you can keep smashing the D without letting up because your RB is out of breath or hurting.

I'm not talking about giving the guy 350 carries*. Like I said earlier, I'm talking about a 60-20-20 split between Ridley-BJGE-Woody/Vereen. That's pretty much how the carries were split up last year, except BJGE was 60%, Woody was 25% and Taylor/Morris were the remaining 15%.

The game planning wouldn't be any different, except (presumably) the best runner would be getting 60%.

Of course, all of this presumes that Ridley is what he appears to be and can handle the other RB duties effectively.



*the game planning argument is pure garbage. It's much harder to game plan against one great player than three mediocre ones. If Ridley's talent proved that he could carry the rock 300+ times and be effective, we'd be stupid not hand him the ball because we're worried about the other team only having to game plan for one guy.

 

[BlueThunder]

Pats are lucky to have 3 good backs...maybe even 4 if Vereen shows something......and that doesn't even take into consideration the wiley vet Faulk.....

Solid OL with Brady at QB and a solid running game will be difficult to stop....


Quitcha B!tchin

 

[Patspsycho]

Considering the situation, yes. He's on a team that has the best QB in the NFL. Teams don't gameplan against our running attack. 4.3 ypc is marginal considering that fact. 13TDs is mostly driven by opportunity. Yes, part of it is that BJGE is good in short yardage, but it's mostly due to the fact that we score a ton of points and he probably got more goalline opportunities than any other back in the NFL...by a lot.

If we follow this logic, then since 2007, when we instituted the spread, Maroney, Morris, Taylor, and Jordan all had the same "goalline opportunities" (especially in 2007 when we scored the most points ever), but they didn't produce this kind of result.

There's nothing wrong with it (how many times do I have to say this?). The thing is, Ridley is touted as a bruiser AND he has game changing ability, at least a bit more than BJGE. Why wouldn't you prefer the guy with BOTH skills to be getting the majority of the carries?

Again, from what I've seen of the small samples in his NFL career, Ridley doesn't appear to be a bruiser, he didn't ram into anyone. Maybe this will change when he gets more opportunities, but from what I've seen so far, his talent in the NFL is skirting contact and gaining on the edge with breakaway speed.

We'll use Ridley in pretty much the exact same way as BJGE. I don't see how they'd game plan any differently, except that they might actually have to gameplan a little bit for Ridley. I can't see anyone gameplanning for BJGE. He's the most predictable RB in the NFL. He gets the ball, runs into the hole, runs straight ahead until he hits someone then falls forward.

Except they aren't using Ridley and BJGE in the same way, they often use inside "trap" plays for BJGE in regard to the blocking schemes (this is the conventional style blocking), and use an outside trap style for Ridley to give him the outside lanes where he can turn on the jets. This from what I saw in the Oakland game.

*the game planning argument is pure garbage. It's much harder to game plan against one great player than three mediocre ones. If Ridley's talent proved that he could carry the rock 300+ times and be effective, we'd be stupid not hand him the ball because we're worried about the other team only having to game plan for one guy.

All you're doing here is telling me you don't pay attention to how the D adjusts to each RB. Defenses likes to play reduced against BJGE, but with Woodhead, they'll stay extended or cheat towards zone. That is a clear difference in formation and alignment and that clearly involves more game-planning.

 

[RIpats88]

all our rb's have different skills/specialties....and i like the attack of running a 3man rotation with green-ellis/ridley/woodhead.....our running game has really taken a step up these past 2 years.

bjge might not be the best back in the game, but hes consistent and rarely loses yards...its worth noting that we used a spread attack in 09 and maroney never was able to do what green-ellis could. were just in a great situation now in the running game where we have 3-4 capable backs who can make plays(im saying 3 because i dont know what vereen can give us)

 

[BradyFTW!]

He likely wanted an upgrade over 2 injury prone old vet FA RBs. He also probably wanted to groom a successor to Kevin Faulk. His draft move says nothing about young productive reliable BJGE although were he to have found Curtis Martin like lightening in a bottle that'd be great! Too early to tell what we have though #22 looks good out there. Show me more!

You don't draft RBs in the 2nd and 3rd round if you think you have two reliable RBs already. I think it's pretty clear that Belichick likes both Woodhead and BJGE as complimentary players, but also acknowledged that they had fundamental limitations that were keeping the running game from being the type of threat that it needs to be.

I love BJGE, in particular, for what he is: a serviceable, versatile, consistent RB who doesn't really scare anybody. He does his job, and does it well, but can absolutely be upgraded.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Considering the situation, yes. He's on a team that has the best QB in the NFL. Teams don't gameplan against our running attack. 4.3 ypc is marginal considering that fact. 13TDs is mostly driven by opportunity. Yes, part of it is that BJGE is good in short yardage, but it's mostly due to the fact that we score a ton of points and he probably got more goalline opportunities than any other back in the NFL...by a lot.

BGJE's stats aren't too impressive because 1) he only got something like 14 carries a game and 2) YPC is skewed when you are the goal line/short yardage back as well. It's hard to find many RB's who fill the short yardage role with a significantly better YPC.... I think Arian Foster is the only one in the league which does at 4.9. I guess AP also if you consider 4.6 significantly better. So I'd hardly call 4.3 marginal in his role.

 

[BlueThunder]

Ridley's YPC stats are out of wack because he only carried 18 times, but even taking away his long run of 33yds...he still has about a 7ypc average.....

Nice to have a back that can make tacklers miss and get the long gainer.....and Stevan isn't exactly a lightweight for a RB....

 

[JJDChE]

If we follow this logic, then since 2007, when we instituted the spread, Maroney, Morris, Taylor, and Jordan all had the same "goalline opportunities" (especially in 2007 when we scored the most points ever), but they didn't produce this kind of result.

In '07 we were throwing more often near the goal line. I think part of the reason that we were running more near the goal line last year is because of Green-Ellis, so I give him credit for that. Bill trusts him down there. He still got more opportunities than most. So I'm not going crazy over 13 TDs. Maroney scored 9 times in 194 carries in '10 and he's not only a crappy RB, he's terrible in short yardage. So, yeah, the extra 4 TDs for Green-Ellis don't sway me all that much.

Again, from what I've seen of the small samples in his NFL career, Ridley doesn't appear to be a bruiser, he didn't ram into anyone. Maybe this will change when he gets more opportunities, but from what I've seen so far, his talent in the NFL is skirting contact and gaining on the edge with breakaway speed.

The first two sentences of Ridley's NFL.com draft profile:

Ridley is bruising running back that could be effective between the tackles at the next level. He is a no nonsense runner that explodes through the holes and is very difficult to take down in the open field.

Except they aren't using Ridley and BJGE in the same way, they often use inside "trap" plays for BJGE in regard to the blocking schemes (this is the conventional style blocking), and use an outside trap style for Ridley to give him the outside lanes where he can turn on the jets. This from what I saw in the Oakland game.

Ridley doesn't have jets. He's a 4.65 40 guy. I hate to think what BJGE is if Ridley is a 4.65 guy.

I know people were going crazy about how he got to the edge on the TD last week, but to me he didn't look fast there at all. It was more lumbering to my eyes. The difference is that he looked MUCH faster than BJGE, which is why people reacted that way to the run.

All you're doing here is telling me you don't pay attention to how the D adjusts to each RB. Defenses likes to play reduced against BJGE, but with Woodhead, they'll stay extended or cheat towards zone. That is a clear difference in formation and alignment and that clearly involves more game-planning.

Who cares how they play them? Woodhead isn't in there to force the defense to play differently, he's in there because he's more effective in certain situations. How the defense reacts to his presence (which is probably more dictated by down and distance, as opposed to Woodhead's presence anyway) is secondary.

Regardless, how does this affect who should be getting more PT between Ridley and BJGE?

 

[JJDChE]

BGJE's stats aren't too impressive because 1) he only got something like 14 carries a game and 2) YPC is skewed when you are the goal line/short yardage back as well. It's hard to find many RB's who fill the short yardage role with a significantly better YPC.... I think Arian Foster is the only one in the league which does at 4.9. I guess AP also if you consider 4.6 significantly better. So I'd hardly call 4.3 marginal in his role.

You put Foster or AP with Brady and you get 5.5+ ypc with those guys.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not surprised given your lack of objectivity and contribution to this thread other than the Ridley for President mentality you and one other poster possess.

I don't have any inclination toward either running back. I'm all for upgrading players once production dictates. What I will NOT do is throw a proven commodity under the bus in favor of flavor of the month with 4 quarters of exposure. Am I happy with Ridley? You bet I am. Could he take over the starter position? Most certainly. Will he? Performance will dictate that.

Hell, I was lambasted for saying Leigh Bodden was the best corner on our team going into this season on the basis that McCourty had to back up his stellar 2010.

Ridley is more talented than BJGE. That's just a fact. He may or may not yet be a better football player; obviously, at this point we don't know that. There's a role for both of them on this team either way, so nobody's throwing BJGE under the bus, or dismissing him, or any other melodramatic characterization that you want to make.

The running game in 2010 depended on Brady to be effective. On the rare occasions that opponents were able to stop the pass, there wasn't enough talent in the running game to beat them on the ground.