Under the radar ... Stevan Ridley

[ausbacker]

High draft position absolutely ensures you're more likely to stick on a roster than a UDFA.

That's a reasonable assertion but discounts production.

I'm not projecting anything. All I'm saying is that Ridley looks like a better runner than GreenEllis. There are still unanswered questions on Ridley, but you can't say his ceiling doesn't look higher than Green-Ellis'. They need to put him out there to answer the questions. If Ridley can hold on to the ball reasonably well and handle the pass blocking duties, Green-Ellis is all but done here.

Perhaps you should have said that Ridley looks a better runner rather than throwing mud at Green-Ellis and hoping it would stick.

Listen, I agree Ridley looks a talent. The issue is once Vereen hits the field and performs, he'll be the next flavor of the month guy. So you understand that better I really, really, really like what I've seen of Ridley. He'll get his carries as will BJGE as will Woodhead. Splitting Gronk & Hernandez is the same. They can work together and compliment each other, there doesn't have to be get rid of one in favor of the other, especially whilst they're all cost friendly to the Patriots.

1 year isn't dependable by NFL standards. He had a decent season.

A decent season which would see him get carries at other sides. He's no star but he's certainly no mug.

Green-Ellis has proven more, that doesn't make him more talented. Maybe if you are defining talent in the all-around sense. I'm aiming at the type of talent you can't teach. It doesn't take much time watching the two to see Ridley appears to have more in that department.

You're right it doesn't make him more talented, it makes him proven compared to the exciting rookie. My preference is to work all of our RB's together as a committee. There's no need to alienate any of them in preference for another, especially given the injury concerns that always seem to plague RB's.

 

[Patspsycho]

Maroney and Morris combined for 270 carries, 1219 yds, 4.5 ypc, 9 TDs

BJGE and Woodhead combined for 1,555 yards, 4.95 YPC, and 18 TDs.

 

[JJDChE]

BJGE and Woodhead combined for 1,555 yards, 4.95 YPC, and 18 TDs.

Woodhead is a change of pace back. Maroney and Morris were used more or less in the same capacity as Green-Ellis is now.

 

[Patspsycho]

Woodhead is a change of pace back. Maroney and Morris were used more or less in the same capacity as Green-Ellis is now.

That actually sounds like an endorsement of BJGE; you're dismissing Woodhead as a change of pace back and saying that the productivity of both Maroney and Morris is equal to BJGE. The stats in that regard actually support you because in their last full season together (2009), Maroney and Morris combined for 1,057 yards and 11 TDs, which is similar to what BJGE produced by himself last year.

That what you're saying?

 

[JackBauer]

That actually sounds like an endorsement of BJGE; you're dismissing Woodhead as a change of pace back and saying that the productivity of both Maroney and Morris is equal to BJGE. The stats in that regard actually support you because in their last full season together (2009), Maroney and Morris combined for 1,057 yards and 11 TDs, which is similar to what BJGE produced by himself last year.

That what you're saying?

I can't speak for him, but if it is... how is that a ringing endorsement of BJGE? Since when are Maroney and Morris considered RB1s on a championship caliber team?

 

[Patspsycho]

I can't speak for him, but if it is... how is that a ringing endorsement of BJGE? Since when are Maroney and Morris considered RB1s on a championship caliber team?

Maroney was a first round pick. When you spend a first round pick on a RB, he better be an elite, game-changing runner.

 

[JackBauer]

Maroney was a first round pick. When you spend a first round pick on a RB, he better be an elite, game-changing runner.

And everyone knows he wasn't, so I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here.

 

[JJDChE]

That actually sounds like an endorsement of BJGE; you're dismissing Woodhead as a change of pace back and saying that the productivity of both Maroney and Morris is equal to BJGE. The stats in that regard actually support you because in their last full season together (2009), Maroney and Morris combined for 1,057 yards and 11 TDs, which is similar to what BJGE produced by himself last year.

That what you're saying?

Maroney missed several games in '07, games 4-5-6. In 13 games he had 185 carries and 835 yards. In the 3 games Maroney was out Morris took over and had 52 carries for 233 yards.

So, in total for our RB1 in 2007, Maroney/Morris had 237 carries for 1068 yards. Pretty much identical to BJGE.

Maroney was a first round pick. When you spend a first round pick on a RB, he better be an elite, game-changing runner.

I think we all know Maroney has proven to be a major bust.

 

[Patspsycho]

And everyone knows he wasn't, so I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here.

My point is when we first drafted Maroney, he was thought to be the second coming. Certain posters have seen two games from Ridley and are calling for him to start, and predictably I am a lot more cautious and not ready to dismiss what is not broken.

As I've said before a triple-head threat featuring Woodhead, BJGE, and Ridley has the ability to be very potent.

 

[Patspsycho]

Maroney missed several games in '07, games 4-5-6. In 13 games he had 185 carries and 835 yards. In the 3 games Maroney was out Morris took over and had 52 carries for 233 yards.

So, in total for our RB1 in 2007, Maroney/Morris had 237 carries for 1068 yards. Pretty much identical to BJGE.

Hence, one RB was able to produce the equivalent of two RBs in 2007?

BTW, Maroney's YPC in 2007 was 4.5, BJGE's YPC last year was 4.3. That's a difference of .2 of a yard, or 7 inches.

 

[JackBauer]

My point is when we first drafted Maroney, he was thought to be the second coming. Certain posters have seen two games from Ridley and are calling for him to start, and predictably I am a lot more cautious and not ready to dismiss what is not broken.

As I've said before a triple-head threat featuring Woodhead, BJGE, and Ridley has the ability to be very potent.

Well, sure. There's always the chance Ridley starts strong before falling off the face of the earth, a la Maroney. I don't think it happens, both due to his superior collegiate pedigree and difference in running style, but it's certainly a possibility.

There's nothing wrong with BJGE, but he is limited in what he can do physically and thus isn't able to create the same favorable matchups you want to see on offense, particularly in the playoffs. I do agree with your point that spelling BJGE with a back like Ridley has the potential to increase the effectiveness of both backs, for reasons you've mentioned.

 

[JJDChE]

Hence, one RB was able to produce the equivalent of two RBs in 2007?

BTW, Maroney's YPC in 2007 was 4.5, BJGE's YPC last year was 4.3. That's a difference of .2 of a yard, or 7 inches.

I think the point is, pretty much any RB you plug in there can replicate what BJGE, Maroney and Morris have done.

 

[Patspsycho]

I think the point is, pretty much any RB you plug in there can replicate what BJGE, Maroney and Morris have done.

In the last ten years for the Patriots, only two backs out of about 8-10 over that time span have gone over 1,000 yards; one is Corey Dillon, the other is BJGE.

You can scarcely call that "plug in and replicate."

 

[JJDChE]

In the last ten years for the Patriots, only two backs out of about 8-10 over that time span have gone over 1,000 yards; one is Corey Dillon, the other is BJGE.

You can scarcely call that "plug in and replicate."

Maroney and Morris had pretty much the same level of productivity in 2007-2009 as GreenEllis has had in 2010-2011. Let's be honest here. Morris and Maroney are subpar NFL RBs. Maroney is out of the league at 26. Morris was a backup, 3.9 ypc career player before coming here. Green-Ellis is in the same mold as Morris in particular. Unspectacular, but generally makes a positive play and doesn't turn the ball over.

1,000 isn't much of a milestone these days. Green-Ellis got lucky enough to get enough carries to compile those yards. If Morris or Maroney could stay healthy they would have done it, too. The biggest thing Green-Ellis has going for him, stats-wise, is that we haven't had another healthy between the tackles runner on the roster. Now we have Ridley, so his productivity will likely suffer.

Morris '07-'09: 314 carries, 1,430 yds, 13 TDs, 4.6 ypc
Maroney '07-'09: 407 att, 1,585 yds, 15 TDs, 4.1 ypc
Green-Ellis '10-'11: 279 att, 1,203 yds, 16 TDs, 4.3 ypc

 

[sbpatfan]

Maroney and Morris had pretty much the same level of productivity in 2007-2009 as GreenEllis has had in 2010-2011. Let's be honest here. Morris and Maroney are subpar NFL RBs. Maroney is out of the league at 26. Morris was a backup, 3.9 ypc career player before coming here. Green-Ellis is in the same mold as Morris in particular. Unspectacular, but generally makes a positive play and doesn't turn the ball over.

1,000 isn't much of a milestone these days. Green-Ellis got lucky enough to get enough carries to compile those yards. If Morris or Maroney could stay healthy they would have done it, too. The biggest thing Green-Ellis has going for him, stats-wise, is that we haven't had another healthy between the tackles runner on the roster. Now we have Ridley, so his productivity will likely suffer.

Morris '07-'09: 314 carries, 1,430 yds, 13 TDs, 4.6 ypc
Maroney '07-'09: 407 att, 1,585 yds, 15 TDs, 4.1 ypc
Green-Ellis '10-'11: 279 att, 1,203 yds, 16 TDs, 4.3 ypc

Yeah, but they didn't.

 

[Patspsycho]

1,000 isn't much of a milestone these days. Green-Ellis got lucky enough to get enough carries to compile those yards. If Morris or Maroney could stay healthy they would have done it, too. The biggest thing Green-Ellis has going for him, stats-wise, is that we haven't had another healthy between the tackles runner on the roster. Now we have Ridley, so his productivity will likely suffer.

As I've pointed out, if 1,000 isn't much of a milestone, how come only two RBs in the last decade were able to pass that milestone?

Ridley saw the most snaps in the last game (10), but BJGE's productivity didn't suffer, as he put in 75 yards and 1 TD on a 4.7 YPC.

 

[JJDChE]

Yeah, but they didn't.

Yup, they didn't. But it certainly wasn't their talent level that stopped them. They would've have done the same thing if they were given the opportunities that Green-Ellis had.

As I've pointed out, if 1,000 isn't much of a milestone, how come only two RBs in the last decade were able to pass that milestone?

Because outside of Dillon and Faulk we've had terrible RBs on this team.

 

[mgteich]

Green-Ellis went over 1000 yards with zero fumbles. That was and is good enough for Belichick for his starter. That being said, Belichick brought in two players who might be the tandem to Green-Ellis. Ridley ahs been very successful, and Vareen has been injured and is last on the depth chart, but is now contributing on special teams. I don't see the problem.

Maroney and Morris had pretty much the same level of productivity in 2007-2009 as GreenEllis has had in 2010-2011. Let's be honest here. Morris and Maroney are subpar NFL RBs. Maroney is out of the league at 26. Morris was a backup, 3.9 ypc career player before coming here. Green-Ellis is in the same mold as Morris in particular. Unspectacular, but generally makes a positive play and doesn't turn the ball over.

1,000 isn't much of a milestone these days. Green-Ellis got lucky enough to get enough carries to compile those yards. If Morris or Maroney could stay healthy they would have done it, too. The biggest thing Green-Ellis has going for him, stats-wise, is that we haven't had another healthy between the tackles runner on the roster. Now we have Ridley, so his productivity will likely suffer.

Morris '07-'09: 314 carries, 1,430 yds, 13 TDs, 4.6 ypc
Maroney '07-'09: 407 att, 1,585 yds, 15 TDs, 4.1 ypc
Green-Ellis '10-'11: 279 att, 1,203 yds, 16 TDs, 4.3 ypc

 

[JackBauer]

Green-Ellis went over 1000 yards with zero fumbles. That was and is good enough for Belichick for his starter. That being said, Belichick brought in two players who might be the tandem to Green-Ellis. Ridley ahs been very successful, and Vareen has been injured and is last on the depth chart, but is now contributing on special teams. I don't see the problem.

No one is saying there's any problem, but the fact that BB would even draft two RBs indicates BB is looking to upgrade the RB position. You can certainly say that was good enough for a starter, but the jury is still out as to whether that continues to be the case. I'm of the belief that the more Ridley sees the field the better, but that's simply my opinion.

 

[sbpatfan]

Yup, they didn't. But it certainly wasn't their talent level that stopped them. They would've have done the same thing if they were given the opportunities that Green-Ellis had.



Because outside of Dillon and Faulk we've had terrible RBs on this team.

You don't know that, they were either too injured and / or not trusted enough to even get those carries.