The reason why Marquise Hill is still on this team

[pats1]

With that said, McGinest wasn't exactly a spring chicken in 2004 and Colvin was rehabbing from a serious hip injury.

With that said, we're argruging on whether a San Diego Chargers OLB would or would not have had success on the New England Patriots 3 years ago.

 

[ATippett56]

With that said, we're argruging on whether a San Diego Chargers OLB would or would not have had success on the New England Patriots 3 years ago.

You already made your point that it took a college defensive end three years to develop into a linebacker within the Patriots defensive system. Shaun Phillips would have competed as a outside linebacker for the New England Patriots in 2006. Once Junior Seau was placed on injured reserve, Vrabel moved to inside linebacker since the depth at linebacker was proven thin. So in 2006, who would you rather start at outside linebacker, Shaun Phillips or lowly seventh round draft pick Tully Banta-Cain?

 

[pats1]

You already made your point that it took a college defensive end three years to develop into a linebacker within the Patriots defensive system. Shaun Phillips would have competed as a outside linebacker for the New England Patriots in 2006. Once Junior Seau was placed on injured reserve, Vrabel moved to inside linebacker since the depth at linebacker was proven thin. So in 2006, who would you rather start at outside linebacker, Shaun Phillips or lowly sixth round draft pick Tully Banta-Cain?

Damnit! Stupid Belichick!

 

[ATippett56]

Damnit! Stupid Belichick!

Marquise Hill is a bust and hindsight is 20-20!

 

[captain stone]

-Would you rather have a 2nd round draft pick with potential filling your emergency role or someone along the lines of Eddie Freeman or Santonio Thomas?

I would rather have had Bobby Hamilton as our 4th DE.

Pats1 is correct that drafting the BPA is not the way to go.
Drafted the BPA, at a position of need, is the way to go.

Apropos of DEs, Mike Wright is not an adequate backup NT. At all. He is a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT. A legitimate backup NT/DT should be on the FO's shopping list. If that's an improved LKSmith, great. If not, then a vet needs to be signed, a Lional Dalton-type, perhaps; but certainly not a 1st-day pick, or even any pick.

 

[ATippett56]

Apropos of DEs, Mike Wright is not an adequate backup NT. At all. He is a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT. A legitimate backup NT/DT should be on the FO's shopping list. If that's an improved LKSmith, great. If not, then a vet needs to be signed, a Lional Dalton-type, perhaps; but certainly not a 1st-day pick, or even any pick.

Heck, Jonathan Sullivan couldn't even cut it.

 

[patriotsrule]

He hasn't played because only Seymour, Warren, and Green can be active.

His career numbers are abysmal? He hasn't started a game in his career. What the **** do you want him to do? Stab Seymour? Whallop Warren (Thanks, 7News).This is starting to get insane.

Once again you forgot to mention the fact that all those guys have been injured and Hill did nothing. He's had a chance to play in the preseason and he's done nothing. The Patriots get every kind of player to come in and contribute for them and you are trying to tell us that Hill just can't get "opportunities" to show his stuff. Then you go on to say that he will go to another team and have a chance to start. Are you related to this guy? I mean you are such a blind homer you are trying to defend Marquise Hill and doing so with terrible arguments. Guys were injured and an undrafted free agent played instead of Hill. They put him in for two plays against the Titans and Travis Henry ripped off about 60 yards while Hill was lying on his back. Are you serious? Why can Mike Wright come in without many reps and contribute? Ellis Hobbs? Ryan O'Callaghan? Nick Kazcur? Asante Samuel? Eugene Wilson? Dan Koppen? I guess those guys just got lucky, huh? Keep up with your ridiculous attempts trying to defend a 300-pound waste of space. It's amusing me while proving you would probably melt and die if you had to say one bad thing about any Patriots player or coach. Marquise Hill sucks. Deal with it and get on with your life.

 

[captain stone]

Speaking of Colts safeties, Antoine Bethea was taken the pick after Le Kevin Smith.

:bricks:

Thanks for reminding me.

Given Rodney's iffy status, the patsies should have come away with a possible safety of the future last year (Little Willie Andrews doesn't count). They cannot make that mistake again.

 

[pats1]

Once again you forgot to mention the fact that all those guys have been injured and Hill did nothing.

Never at the same time. Green has filled in when Seymour and Warren have been hurt.

He's had a chance to play in the preseason and he's done nothing.

Are you seriously trying to use the preseason to make your point? There are so many other variables going there it's not even funny.

The Patriots get every kind of player to come in and contribute for them and you are trying to tell us that Hill just can't get "opportunities" to show his stuff.

And the Randall Gay's and Stephen Neal's are able to contribute because they have the OPPORTUNITIES to. Without Law and Poole getting hurt, Gay could be bagging groceries right now.

Then you go on to say that he will go to another team and have a chance to start.

I wasn't aware that all, or even some NFL teams had Richard Seymour and Ty Warren as their starting DEs, with Jarvis Green in reserve.

My bad.

Are you related to this guy? I mean you are such a blind homer you are trying to defend Marquise Hill and doing so with terrible arguments.

God forbid someone try to defend Marquise Hill. I guess I forgot the 11th commandment ("Thou Shalt Not Defend Marquise Hill...")

Guys were injured and an undrafted free agent played instead of Hill.

Again you fall into that trap. Mike Wright started three games at NT and contributed in others because he was able to be active because the Pats had no one else able to beat him out as the backup NT. Once you're active, BB will find a way to use you.

But if you have Jarvis Green in your way...

They put him in for two plays against the Titans and Travis Henry ripped off about 60 yards while Hill was lying on his back. Are you serious?

Great. And Tom Brady threw an absolutely game-crushing interception 13 months ago. If you want to go on and on about individual plays, especially when they make up a microscopic sample size like Hill's, we'd be talking until next Thursday.

Why can Mike Wright come in without many reps and contribute?

Are you everlong in disguise? Do you not understand that Mike Wright and Marquise Hill's playing time, by virtue of their positions, are in NO WAY linked?

Ellis Hobbs? Ryan O'Callaghan? Nick Kazcur? Asante Samuel? Eugene Wilson? Dan Koppen?

Duane Starks? Brandon Gorin? Tom Ashworth? Nobody? Curry Burns? Nobody?

I guess those guys just got lucky, huh?

Ask Tom Brady. Ask Rodney Harrison. They preach this all the time. It takes ONE play to knock a starter out and give a lowly backup his chance. Ever see that Tiki Barber commercial where he's cruising in his luxury car?

Keep up with your ridiculous attempts trying to defend a 300-pound waste of space. It's amusing me while proving you would probably melt and die if you had to say one bad thing about any Patriots player or coach. Marquise Hill sucks. Deal with it and get on with your life.

The only amusing thing about this thread is how people like you are pathetically trying to blame Marquise Hill for Richard Seymour and Ty Warren being absolutely phenomenal football players.

Give me a break. People who have been on this forum long enough know I've had plenty of criticism for an awful amount of Patriots players and coaches over the past few years. If you want to run along with those little "you're a homer!" fools, have fun. You're only spiting yourself.

It's the clueless Pats fans that annoy me the most, not the pessimistic ones.

 

[pats1]

Apropos of DEs, Mike Wright is not an adequate backup NT. At all. He is a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT. A legitimate backup NT/DT should be on the FO's shopping list. If that's an improved LKSmith, great. If not, then a vet needs to be signed, a Lional Dalton-type, perhaps; but certainly not a 1st-day pick, or even any pick.

Meh...I was actually impressed by Wright's work filling in for Wilfork. He's certainly a different type of NT than Wilfork, but he got the job done.

 

[everlong]

And the Randall Gay's and Stephen Neal's are able to contribute because they have the OPPORTUNITIES to. Without Law and Poole getting hurt, Gay could be bagging groceries right now.

Gay was dressing and playing nickel and special teams. Neil learned how to play multiple positions on the offensive line and always dressed. Mike Wright didn't come to the Pats as a 3-4 NT he made himself one and he plays special team.

We all get that Wright is a NT and Hill isn't and is too tall to play the position but at some point he has to be accountable and find a way to get on the field. He hasn't.

We can agree to disagree and I'm sorry for my part in taking this beyond a debate and making it personal.

 

[pats1]

Gay was dressing and playing nickel and special teams. Neil learned how to play multiple positions on the offensive line and always dressed. Mike Wright didn't come to the Pats as a 3-4 NT he made himself one and he plays special team.

We all get that Wright is a NT and Hill isn't and is too tall to play the position but at some point he has to be accountable and find a way to get on the field. He hasn't.

How can you fault the guy? Have you heard him ***** or moan about not having a chance to play?

No.

He's working to be ready if the time comes for him in the next two seasons, or if he has to wait until free agency in 2009 to be ready to play for another team.

We can agree to disagree and I'm sorry for my part in taking this beyond a debate and making it personal.

Agreeable.

 

[pats1]

They put him in for two plays against the Titans and Travis Henry ripped off about 60 yards while Hill was lying on his back.

What was I saying about being moronic and clueless?

Henry's longest run of the game was for 25 yards. His second-longest was for 9 yards. There was also a 17-yarder that was negated by a penalty.

On the 25-yard run, the Titans busted out some zone blocking. The C and RG combo blocked Wright inside, with the C peeling off to pick up Vrabel backside. Wright did a decent job of holding his ground, but still opened up a sizeable hole inside. Since Colvin was in outside containment on the strongside FB, that left another large hole on the outside. Hill did his job as a 3-4 DE and took on the RT/TE double team. In this case, it's Bruschi's responsibility to fill that hole and force the run elsewhere. With two big holes to watch, Bruschi hesitated, giving the TE enough time to peel off on a combo block and give Henry plenty of running room. The safeties were playing pass and nowhere in sight. Samuel was sealed off.

At NO time was Hill "on his back." He didn't give one inch to the RT. Ideally, he would have shed the block once the TE peeled, but even Seymour wasn't making those type of plays last year. If you blame this play on Hill, I suggest you watch the tape.

On the 17-yard run, Hill wasn't in the game.

 

[captain stone]

Meh...I was actually impressed by Wright's work filling in for Wilfork. He's certainly a different type of NT than Wilfork, but he got the job done.

We can do better, though. Me likes them big-butt types, e.g. Mt. Washington, Tractor Traylor, The In-Vince-Able,...Sam Adams. Sam should have been a Patriot; he had been available on a couple of occasions. Imagine the marketing possibilities, and the free beer, perhaps.

 

[mgteich]

MY BOTTOM LINE
We have a fine 5 man DL.
It would good to fill the last two spots with players who might have some value to the team. Personally I favor jag vets: a NT and a goal-line DE

 

[PatsSteve1]

You recall correctly.

(Assuming I recall correctly, that is. )

* I recall this- Hill in his limited playing time in PS games and real games has shown no ability at all to be an NFL player. None. It's up to him to push for playing time. He's shown no push. Nothing. When he's on the field he's been a liabilty.

 

[RayClay]

Don't expect this to change any time soon, either. Unless he gets hurt, Hill won't be cut for a "new face of potential." And unless Warren or Seymour go down with long-term injuries, Hill will be inactive for the next 2 years too.

Don't hold your breath. Get used to the way things have been and will be. Hill is a good emergency defensive lineman, and that's as far as the players ahead of him have let him go with the Patriots.

You base this on what? Santonio Thomas would be a good emergency Lineman, though I base this on limited evidence.

Marquise would be a good door stop unless you've seen something no one else has.

 

[RayClay]

You put almost anyone short of a Julius Peppers in place of Marquise Hill, and you have an identical result.

I would be in favor of replacing him with an established veteran, but then again, that would be going against my theory that the Pats need to get younger.

Drafting another 4-3 DT/3-4 DE WILL produce the EXACT same result.

Simply put, no, I would not have confidence in him. He hasn't had a decent chance to develop, nor will he ever with the Patriots. You can't argue that.

I half-blame BB & co, not Hill. He IS a "bust" in that sense. If the Pats had drafted a QB in the 1st round in 2004, we're talking the SAME THING. And if that QB stuck around for 4 or 5 years and "didn't do anything" that wouldn't mean that player was "bad." When the Pats drafted him, Wilfork had just been taken hours before, Green was just coming in, and Warren had only started a handful of games. He was, quite frankly, a risky INSURANCE policy. The Pats turned out not to need it, thanks to the development of Warren, Wilfork, and Green.

The fact of the matter remains the same. You put Santonio Thomas, you put one of those college names Box was floating around (...never heard of them...), and you get the same result.

With such amazingly good starting DLs, the Pats are in quite a predicament in regards to their emergency DE spot. Do you go with a younger player with potential, where you'll NEVER likely see it develop with VERY limited playing time? Or do you go with an older player who you'd be more comfortable starting in an emergency but has no upside?

We drafted a QB in the 7th round. He's doing fine.

Face it, the gravedigger should have been ripping it up in preseason. He's had three.

He's already had more time to prove himself than most unproductive players.

Are you related to him?

 

[RayClay]

Mike Wright has replaced Hill?

When was Hill the backup NT?

Wright is active because he is the backup NT.



If Santonio Thomas beats out Marquise Hill, he beats him out. It really won't make a difference. We're kidding ourselves if we think the potential of a 4th DL on this Pats line really matters. Whoever wins out is just a filler player. If the time ever comes for that 4th DE to get significant playing time, I'd prefer the player who has been in the system 3 years and presumably would make the most of his chance to show off the stuff that got him drafted.

Quite honestly, we've delved beyond the threshold of mattering.

Three years and he hasn't yet.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Great, let's free up the roster spot for someone who will do the same exact thing as Marquise.

What the **** do you expect Marquise to do? Beat out Seymour and Warren for the starting spots? Steal playing time from them? He's the prime example of why drafting the best player available, not for need, isn't always the best.

Give me a break.

Thank you, Pats 1. He was my "steal" that year coming out of the draft. But by now I was hoping he would have been doing what Green is doing.....

Yet, he is "my" developmental guy, just as others have TBC as theirs. So thanks for the vote of support.