The misuse of Chandler Jones week one at Miami

[Urgent]

He never lined up against an interior player. He line up over the lt all day just like he always does.

My basic understanding of the difference is:
A 5-technique 3-4 DE lines up right over the tackle, and in the two-gap is responsible for the B and C gaps to either side of the tackle.
A 4-3 DE is either a 6 or 7 technique, and lines up outside the tackle. He can try to take an angle toward the QB, or make a move across the face of the tackle to stunt inside.

If Jones was primarily lined up "over the tackle" as Andy Johnson suggests he was in a 5-technique 3-4 DE.
If he was outside the tackle, he was in a traditional 4-3 DE alignment.
The 3-4 DE would not line up against an interior player.

Interior alignments are 0 technique, or 3-4 nose tackle directly over the center, 1 technique 4-3 nose tackle between center and guard, or 3 technique 4-3 DT over the guard.

Someone with a deeper understanding can correct this, if this is confused.

The classic 5-technique is someone who looks like Kelcy Quarles: 6-4 297, 4.95 40. Seymour and Warren were prototypes. If Jones was playing 5-technique, as Reiss reported he was, you would expect that he would get turned consistently on running plays.

 

[Rob0729]

I guess I was wrong since Bedard did say they primarily used Jones as a 5 technique DE, but he also said he was grossly missused that way. He said that he is not suited for that role and played poorly because of it.

 

[50-yard-line]

Maybe someone in the media will ask BB? Nah...........

Hehe, someone asked Patricia:

"I think the ability for all our guys on the front and the back end to be able to play in multiple different positions would obviously help us week-in and week-out based on what we see as our best avenue to try to defend what the opponent is doing," he said. "Certainly a guy like Chandler, who is an athletic, smart guy who can handle different positions for us, allows us to have that flexibility."

Asked if Jones was at a disadvantage at the position, going up against the bigger-bodied linemen?

"I think the good thing is you know we're going to try to find the best position for our guys and put them in the position that they can handle and we feel comfortable that they can get the job done," Patricia said. "We're certainly trying to put them in the right position to help the entire structure of the defense to try, like I said, to combat what the offense is doing."

http://www.chatsports.com/new-engla...-fit-at-defensive-end-in-34-scheme-0-10374216

Not a true BB disciple, but he may have a career as a politician. He's using too many words.

 

[Kontradiction]

I guess I was wrong since Bedard did say they primarily used Jones as a 5 technique DE, but he also said he was grossly missused that way. He said that he is not suited for that role and played poorly because of it.

He's fine being used at the 5-tech. He's not fine being used as a two-gapping DE in the 34. Outside of lining him up at WR or CB or QB, I really am hard pressed to think of a worse way to use him.

 

[VrabelJr]

Aside from his roughing the passer penalties, Chandler Jones didn't play poorly. So I would like to know the basis of Bedard saying that. We didn't get run on off tackle, we got ran on up the middle and left sides of the line.

 

[Brady6]

Wrong. Arthur is a 3 tech. Chandler played 5 tech.

Jones plays the 5 technique and 3 technique depending on alignments, back in 2012 he was primarily a 5 technique over the past 2 years he has done more of both. This article provides a good breakdown of Jones and the Colts defensive scheme.

http://coltsauthority.com/2014-articles/free-agent-profiles-de-arthur-jones.html

Chandler has been used as a 5 technique end in the base and a 3 technique DT in sub packages so he is doing a lot of the things his 337lb brother is doing, that should not be the case.

The biggest issue with this scheme is basically they want to have the 49ers 3-4 defensive front with Hightower as Brooks, Mayo as Bowman, Collins as Willis, and then Jones they want him to be Justin Smith and Aldon Smith at the same time and that is not possible. If Belichick wants to run a 3-4 the only way to do it is to concede that Jones, Hightower, and Ninkovich will not all be on the field together in a base.

They could run this front:

LDT-Vince Wilfork-Chris Jones-Joe Vellano
NT-Sealver Siliga-Vince Wilfork
RDE-Dominique Easley-Zach Moore
LOLB-Donta Hightower-Rob Ninkovich-Darius Fleming
LILB-Jerod Mayo-Donta Hightower
RILB-Jamie Collins-Jerod Mayo
ROLB-Chandler Jones-Rob Ninkovich-Michael Buchanan

This might actually work; the key is to get Easley healthy enough to play 70% of the snaps.

 

[Brady6]

They weren't 2 gapping yesterday (only Wilfork was) so Chandler Jones' position was effectively unchanged. The only person affected by the use of the 3-4 was Ninkovich.

If you're going to dislike the use of the 3-4 at least dislike it for the right reasons. Bandwagon bashing is getting old. I agree we should be in more of a 4-3 look, by the way. It' suits our DL and depth at DT.

Jones was 2-gaping on Sunday, as was Wilfork, the LDT was not he was playing a 1-gap. Wilfork had the A-gap on each side of the center. Jones had the B-gap between the LG and LT and the C-gap outside the LT. Vellano had the B-gap between the RG and RT and Hightower or Ninkovich had the C-gap on the outside of the RT.

 

[patsderoer]

Aside from his roughing the passer penalties, Chandler Jones didn't play poorly. So I would like to know the basis of Bedard saying that. We didn't get run on off tackle, we got ran on up the middle and left sides of the line.

Watch the 2nd half again

 

[Brady6]

Tommy Kelly had a tackle for a loss last night and a QB hit.

 

[PATS68]

Jones was 2-gaping on Sunday, as was Wilfork, the LDT was not he was playing a 1-gap. Wilfork had the A-gap on each side of the center. Jones had the B-gap between the LG and LT and the C-gap outside the LT. Vellano had the B-gap between the RG and RT and Hightower or Ninkovich had the C-gap on the outside of the RT.

Your 100% correct, I watched the game again and in the 2nd quarter it was Easley, Wilfork and Jones on the line. I watched Jones try and take on a OG and a OT and it was not pretty. Awful game plan, made ZERO sense for Jones to 2 gap. It got so bad they had to get Jones off the field and slide Wilfork down to his spot.

I for one think BB called out his D-coach on WEEI the other day. Best D they played in the game was in the 4th quarter when they applied pressure and went after the QB and forced a couple of three and outs. I took away from that they were day late and a dollar short and should have made the switch much faster and go after the QB.
.
How funny as I am typing this they just talked on Comcast how Jones was used wrong

 

[VrabelJr]

Your 100% correct, I watched the game again and in the 2nd quarter it was Easley, Wilfork and Jones on the line. I watched Jones try and take on a OG and a OT and it was not pretty. Awful game plan, made ZERO sense for Jones to 2 gap. It got so bad they had to get Jones off the field and slide Wilfork down to his spot.

I for one think BB called out his D-coach on WEEI the other day. Best D they played in the game was in the 4th quarter when they applied pressure and went after the QB and forced a couple of three and outs. I took away from that they were day late and a dollar short and should have made the switch much faster and go after the QB.
.
How funny as I am typing this they just talked on Comcast how Jones was used wrong

2 gapping and getting double teamed are not the same thing. You can't infer that Chandler Jones was 2-gapping just because Miami decided to dedicate the LT and LG to him.

 

[PATS68]

2 gapping and getting double teamed are not the same thing. You can't infer that Chandler Jones was 2-gapping just because Miami decided to dedicate the LT and LG to him.

I suggest to watch the film break down they just did on Comcast on how Jones was misused and when your done watching it get back to me!

 

[VrabelJr]

I suggest to watch the film break down they just did on Comcast on how Jones was misused and when your done watching it get back to me!

Saying Jones was misused is the hot thing to do this week. One person said it and the rest have copied. You don't think pundits actually think, do you?

 

[makoute]

Saying Jones was misused is the hot thing to do this week. One person said it and the rest have copied. You don't think pundits actually think, do you?

A lot of people on this site, during the game were saying this, it is not like people are making the observation after the fact.

 

[PATS68]

Saying Jones was misused is the hot thing to do this week. One person said it and the rest have copied. You don't think pundits actually think, do you?

You don't live in New England do you? I think every media person who covers the team is in agreement that Jones was not used right. I saw Jeff Howe on tv he spoke about it. Read Mike R. espn Boston he also wrote about it. Comcast did a break down the misuse of Jones. Fans on this board mostly all agree that he was used wrong.

Sort of like this story

As New England's Week 2 matchup with the Vikings approaches, we'll continue to take a closer look at the Patriots defense -- especially its front seven (or front six in nickel packages), and how it is able to defend the run.

The nearly 200 yards the Dolphins mustered on the ground in their 33-20 Week 1 win seemed to come almost at will and helped allow Miami to control the game throughout the second half.

The Patriots captain on the defensive line, Vince Wilfork, said the team needed to get better in that phase and believed that it will. But how?

One way, of course, would be to execute better fundamentals in the areas of shedding blocks and tackling. Players have admitted since Sunday's performance that both of those things could be polished.

Another would be to potentially tinker with the scheme. The Patriots ran a 3-4 look for much of Sunday's contest, often utilizing Wilfork in the middle with Joe Vellano, Dominique Easley and Chandler Jones as defensive ends.

In a 3-4, typically the linemen are big and athletic and able to take on multiple blocks. In particular, the ends are frequently asked to "two-gap," meaning they can take on a block and make a play to either side of said block, or either "gap."

The prototypes at the position -- former Patriots end Ty Warren (6-foot-5, 300 pound), Texans star J.J. Watt (6-5, 290 pounds), San Francisco's Justin Smith (6-4, 285 pounds) and Jets’ Muhammad Wilkerson (6-4, 310 pounds) -- are space eaters who could also get to the quarterback.

While Jones is extremely athletic and a talented pass-rusher, there were times on Sunday when he was sealed off by Dolphins offensive linemen in the running game.

Asked what made Jones a good fit at end in a 3-4, Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia touted Jones' versatility and his ability to be effective regardless of the scheme.

"I think the ability for all our guys on the front and the back end to be able to play in multiple different positions would obviously help us week-in and week-out based on what we see as our best avenue to try to defend what the opponent is doing," Patricia said. "Certainly a guy like Chandler who is an athletic, smart guy who can handle different positions for us allows us to have that flexibility."

At 6-5, 265 pounds, Jones is lighter than the above 3-4 end prototypes. It bears watching whether or not the Patriots continue to play him in that role, or if they use him more as a 3-4 outside linebacker or as a defensive end in a 4-3 setup. If defensive lineman Chris Jones -- who missed Sunday's game due to an ankle injury -- is able to return to the field soon, that may give the Patriots more flexibility, allowing Chandler Jones to play outside with more frequency.

No matter how he's used, Patricia explained that the Patriots would only play Chandler Jones in spots where the team believes he could be successful.

"We’re going to try to find the best position for our guys and put them in the position that they can handle and we feel comfortable that they can get the job done," Patricia said. "We’re certainly trying to put them in the right position to help the entire structure of the defense to try, like I said, to combat what the offense is doing."


Phil Perry serves as a general reporter for Comcast SportsNet, mainly covering the New England Patriots. Follow Phil on Twitter here.


The stat from last year Jones only had 1 sack rushing from inside and the rest came from the outside enough said!

 

[Ring 6]

My basic understanding of the difference is:
A 5-technique 3-4 DE lines up right over the tackle, and in the two-gap is responsible for the B and C gaps to either side of the tackle.
A 4-3 DE is either a 6 or 7 technique, and lines up outside the tackle. He can try to take an angle toward the QB, or make a move across the face of the tackle to stunt inside.

If Jones was primarily lined up "over the tackle" as Andy Johnson suggests he was in a 5-technique 3-4 DE.
If he was outside the tackle, he was in a traditional 4-3 DE alignment.
The 3-4 DE would not line up against an interior player.

Interior alignments are 0 technique, or 3-4 nose tackle directly over the center, 1 technique 4-3 nose tackle between center and guard, or 3 technique 4-3 DT over the guard.

Someone with a deeper understanding can correct this, if this is confused.

The classic 5-technique is someone who looks like Kelcy Quarles: 6-4 297, 4.95 40. Seymour and Warren were prototypes. If Jones was playing 5-technique, as Reiss reported he was, you would expect that he would get turned consistently on running plays.

He wasn't playing 2 gap
Reiss did not report anything about what technique jones was playing. You either didn't read his article or misunderstood if.

 

[Ring 6]

A lot of people on this site, during the game were saying this, it is not like people are making the observation after the fact.

This is because people saw a 34 with jones at de and thought he was playing 2 gap 34 which if course he wasn't.
BB has NEVER run this base scheme before it is a variation
The fact that a lot of people misunderstand together does not make them right.

 

[Ring 6]

Jones was 2-gaping on Sunday, as was Wilfork, the LDT was not he was playing a 1-gap. Wilfork had the A-gap on each side of the center. Jones had the B-gap between the LG and LT and the C-gap outside the LT. Vellano had the B-gap between the RG and RT and Hightower or Ninkovich had the C-gap on the outside of the RT.

This is simply not correct. Feel free to copy in the plays you reviewed to come to this conclusion though. It will be insightful.

 

[Brady6]

This is simply not correct. Feel free to copy in the plays you reviewed to come to this conclusion though. It will be insightful.

Feel free to copy some plays in to show that it isn't true. You are wrong, you should go back and watch the game again.

 

[Fencer]

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patr...plains_why_he_sees_chandler_jones_as_a_fit_at

Matt Patricia interviewed about why they played Jones where they did. His multiple paragraphs of comments, in their entirety, may be summarized as "We did what we thought was best".