Take the kid gloves off BB: Use Maroney

[DaBruinz]

It has already been pointed out that Philly's run D was rated WORSE than their pass D ... for those who are still trying to sell that story.

Lloyd - This is FALSE. Philly's run defense is the 7th ranked run defense in the league. Their Pass defense is ranked 23rd. That means their PASS defense is WORSE than their run defense.

Still, I understand the point of not running at Balt's strength.

I think the original poster does have a valid concern. This empty backfield stuff is not to my liking, especially in short yardage situations. How can that possibly improve your chance at making a 3rd and short when you just told the other team that they can forget about you trying to run the ball?

Even if we don't run Maroney (or faulk, evans, etc) a lot more, I would like to see more formations where there is at least a RB in there so that the possibility of a run remains in the minds of the defense. Some play actions and the ocassional run is better than the constant spread formation at least in short yardage situations.

What we fans want doesn't matter. I would have preferred to see some more screens in the 1st half. And I question whether or not the adjustments made during the 2nd half were the issue of the past not scoring as much then.

My issue is with people saying that MARONEY is the reason the Pats went like that. He's not. And people just don't want to accept that.

 

[DaBruinz]

as BB said, we had trouble protecting against the pass, so running the ball we wouldve got stuffed.
Also remember, we DID try screens, both receivers and maroney dropped the balls on each occasion.

Maroney and the receivers dropping the passes is a matter of execution. One of the passes to Maroney was not thrown great, but he still should have had it..

But we agree on this. The gameplan was to PASS more than run. Because of Philly's very good run defense. NOT because of issues with Maroney.

 

[BradyManny]

Give me a break - Philly has one of the best run D's in the league. Let's just play right into their strength why don't we?

They're 7th in the league in rushing defense, FYI. But there's about a 20 YPG gap between the top teams (Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Baltimore) and Philly. And we only put up 48 yards on them, so outside of the game against us, they're giving up 98 YPG, which would put them 12th in the league.

So I wouldn't necessary say they have one of the best run Ds in the league...but if we didn't run against Philly, we sure ain't planning on running against Baltimore.

 

[richpats]

...but if we didn't run against Philly, we sure ain't planning on running against Baltimore.

That's what I was saying. This Maroney-soap opera is going to continue for at least a couple of weeks b/c Balt and Pitt will eat him alive.

 

[BradyManny]

That's what I was saying. This Maroney-soap opera is going to continue for at least a couple of weeks b/c Balt and Pitt will eat him alive.

I just updated my post b/c the numbers against the Pats skewed Philly's run numbers. Their rush defense looks less impressive afterwards.

So I agree, we aren't going to see a lot of Maroney anytime soon.

 

[DaBruinz]

They're 7th in the league in rushing defense, FYI. But there's about a 20 YPG gap between the top teams (Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Baltimore) and Philly. So I wouldn't necessary say they have one of the best run Ds in the league...but if we didn't run against Philly, we sure ain't planning on running against Baltimore.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=rypg&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007

Ok. Lets get a few things straight.

While Philly allows 93.3 YPG, they are still ranked 7th in the league and its not until you get to the 13th team in the league that you break Just because Baltimore and Pittsburgh are that much better doesn't take away from how good Philly's run defense is. Especially when you consider that the worst team in the league allows 153.6 YPG.

And, you are right, the Pats probably won't be running against Baltimore or Pittsburgh. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go dink and dunk again

 

[emoney_33]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=rypg&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007

Ok. Lets get a few things straight.

While Philly allows 93.3 YPG, they are still ranked 7th in the league and its not until you get to the 13th team in the league that you break Just because Baltimore and Pittsburgh are that much better doesn't take away from how good Philly's run defense is. Especially when you consider that the worst team in the league allows 153.6 YPG.

And, you are right, the Pats probably won't be running against Baltimore or Pittsburgh. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go dink and dunk again

Pittsburgh and Philly allow the same YPC. The YPG is lower because teams have about 5 more attempts per game against Philly than Pitt. Baltimore's numbers are very impressive with their 2.8ypc (as well as minnesota's 3.0 YPC).


So since it's obvious we "shouldn't" run against the ravens, I expect a lot of early running formations, because ya know I'm never right with what I think we'll do anyway.

So we come out with 1 WR, and play action. Then run about 10 times in a row and then spread it out and go 5 WR, sounds like fun!

 

[BradyManny]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=rypg&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007

Ok. Lets get a few things straight.

While Philly allows 93.3 YPG, they are still ranked 7th in the league and its not until you get to the 13th team in the league that you break Just because Baltimore and Pittsburgh are that much better doesn't take away from how good Philly's run defense is. Especially when you consider that the worst team in the league allows 153.6 YPG.

Right, but that 93 was more like 98 before the Pats game, which moves them into 12. They are GOOD against the run, but I didn't think calling them one of the best was fair.

 

[SVN]

Maroney and the receivers dropping the passes is a matter of execution. One of the passes to Maroney was not thrown great, but he still should have had it..

But we agree on this. The gameplan was to PASS more than run. Because of Philly's very good run defense. NOT because of issues with Maroney.

yup..to repost what BB said on WEEI which not many people what to consider

"Last night was a good example of a team like Philadelphia that had quite a few guys up on the line of scrimmage and they're blitzing them. Well, if you can't block them in the passing game, you can't block them in the running game, either. I mean, they still have one more than you can block in pass protection, they have one more than you can block in the running game. And again, a lot of times those blitzes were hard to…not hard, but they did a good job of disguising them. So, you know, you think they're coming from one side and then you run to the other way and they switch their blitz at the last second and you're running right into it. That's not really the answer, either. If a team's pressuring you, then every once in a while you might split them in the running game. But for the most part you got single coverage out there with a good quarterback and good receivers, I think it would be a mistake not to take advantage of those matchups."

 

[VJCPatriot]

Damn.. you just love changing your story.. 1st you were complaining that Maroney was hurt or in the dog house. Now you are saying that BB needs to get Maroney in the game plan more?

Answer this since you have totally ignored it.

Does it make ANY SENSE AT ALL to run Maroney into the jaws of 3 of the stoutest run defenses in the league? Or does it make MORE sense to abuse those defenses weaknesses by attacking them with the Pass.

All I see is a guy who likes to think he's right all the time. Why else did you doublepost about 10 times in a row and try to disprove everything anyone else said in this thread? Somebody's ego is getting a little out of control here.

I've never changed my story. I don't have a lot of confidence in Maroney right now and his numbers HAVE been in decline since week 7. However it doesn't make sense for BB to still be using these "kid gloves" with Maroney. He is a grown man and a professional athlete.

If it is for the good of the team that the Patriots display some semblance of a running game, use what you've got. In this case it's Maroney. Who cares if the Ravens have a good run D? That doesn't mean you concede the entire running aspect of your offense before you even try.

Why would you be AGAINST using Maroney against the Ravens unless the real reason is you're afraid he's going to fall FLAT on his face? In the end, your ego doesn't matter. What matters is winning football games.

I don't care if Maroney does average only 3.1 ypc against the Ravens. So long as he forces them to at least play some defense vs the RUN and not sell out against the pass, he will have accomplished his job. This is no time to go easy on Maroney's ego or the ego of some out of control poster on some fan messageboard. We're talking about winning football games here.

A multidimensional offense has a better chance of succeeding, period. Mix in the screens and the runs, and keep that defense honest. Yes we'll pass more than we run, that's playing to the Patriots strengths, however completely eliminating the running game would be a mistake imo.

And ultimately, if you pull Maroney out of every game where he could possibly face a stiff challenge, how the hell is he going to grow as a player? Let's take the kid gloves off and let's see what Maroney has really got.

 

[DaBruinz]

They're 7th in the league in rushing defense, FYI. But there's about a 20 YPG gap between the top teams (Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Baltimore) and Philly. And we only put up 48 yards on them, so outside of the game against us, they're giving up 98 YPG, which would put them 12th in the league.

So I wouldn't necessary say they have one of the best run Ds in the league...but if we didn't run against Philly, we sure ain't planning on running against Baltimore.

If you are going to do that, you need to redo all the other teams as well. You can't just say that Philly would be 12th based on CURRENT standings while subtracting one game from their record.

 

[emoney_33]

If it is for the good of the team that the Patriots display some semblance of a running game, use what you've got. In this case it's Maroney.

And if it's not for the good of the team to use Maroney, then what? Uhhh then don't use him.

Who cares if the Ravens have a good run D? That doesn't mean you concede the entire running aspect of your offense before you even try.

Yea, I mean the ravens stopping the run with their front 7, is gonna keep that secondary honest if you try to run it. You can keep the defense honest if they are relying on their secondary to help in the run game, but if they aren't well then you better get 4 or 5 Wide and spread that damn field. We didn't need to PRETEND we could run against the Vikings last year...

Why would you be AGAINST using Maroney against the Ravens unless the real reason is you're afraid he's going to fall FLAT on his face? In the end, your ego doesn't matter. What matters is winning football games.

I'm pretty sure all BB cares about is winning football games, now and in the playoffs. So maybe instead of assuming you NEED to run to win games, you understand that BB knows a lot more than us on what you NEED to do to WIN games. I'm not against using Maroney, I'm not against running 0 times, but I'm not gonna pretend to know enough to determine which one is the best plan. On the surface, with limited information, we can assume that spreading the field against the Ravens is the likely gameplan. We don't have all the information and thus can't take into account things that will alter that decision by the coaches.

I don't care if Maroney does average only 3.1 ypc against the Ravens. So long as he forces them to at least play some defense vs the RUN and not sell out against the pass, he will have accomplished his job. This is no time to go easy on Maroney's ego or the ego of some out of control poster on some fan messageboard. We're talking about winning football games here.

I can guarantee the decision to use Maroney or not has nothing to do with anyone's ego. It's all about winning games which BB knows.

A multidimensional offense has a better chance of succeeding, period. Mix in the screens and the runs, and keep that defense honest. Yes we'll pass more than we run, that's playing to the Patriots strengths, however completely eliminating the running game would be a mistake imo.

Don't make a general statement like this that just isn't true. Again against the Vikings last year, if we tried to use a multidimensional offense we most likely would have performed WORSE. Our spread em out 1 dimensional passing attack was great and worked, running wouldn't have made it better.

And ultimately, if you pull Maroney out of every game where he could possibly face a stiff challenge, how the hell is he going to grow as a player? Let's take the kid gloves off and let's see what Maroney has really got.

It was ONE HALF OF ONE GAME where Maroney wasn't used. Get over it, it happens. It's not like Maroney has 0 rushing attempts all year. Geez

 

[spacecrime]

Maroney needs to get more INVOLVED in the Offense.
I don't carry if he averages 3.1 ypc again, I think he should run the ball at least 15-20 times against the Ravens. Making the Ravens respect the run will open up the passing game.

Open up the passing game? You think our passing offense is stifled?

Why is it that we are 11-0 and everyone wants to run different plays and change what we are doing?

The time to make changes is not when your current methods have you unde-effing-feated.

 

[richpats]

Open up the passing game? You think our passing offense is stifled?

Why is it that we are 11-0 and everyone wants to run different plays and change what we are doing?

The time to make changes is not when your current methods have you unde-effing-feated.

It's not good enough to be undefeated, you have to satisfy everyone in the world too.

 

[BradyManny]

If you are going to do that, you need to redo all the other teams as well. You can't just say that Philly would be 12th based on CURRENT standings while subtracting one game from their record.

Fair enough, but I was merely say what the Eagles were coming into the game against us, which I do think is relevant.

 

[bakes781]

Why do you refuse to believe that Philly's strength is the same? Because you want to ignore facts. Philly has the 7th ranked run defense in the LEAGUE.

Sorry, but the Pats would have been better off using the screens more often earlier in the game than running the ball. Also, since you didn't actually watch the game, Philly has a great run blitz. It was why they were in the backfield as Maroney was getting the ball.

Why is it that you just make up assinine assumptions about what people said? Philly IS the 7th ranked defense against the run. They are 23rd against the Pass.

Screens or running the ball would have been my preference in the 1st half. The stats are misleading. Why don't you look at the personel? Sheppard & Co. vs. their front 7 which I bet even you couldn't name half w/o looking it up. I'll go with their secondary! They were blitzing for the very fact that the Pats showed no threat of a running game.

 

[spacecrime]

They're 7th in the league in rushing defense, FYI. But there's about a 20 YPG gap between the top teams (Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Baltimore) and Philly. And we only put up 48 yards on them, so outside of the game against us, they're giving up 98 YPG, which would put them 12th in the league.

Yeah, and if you take away all Tomlinson's, Peterson's, Parker's, and Westbrooks long runs and runs resulting in a TD, then combined they have a poor average and no TDs.

Sheesh, talk about cherry-picking statistics.

 

[Deus Irae]

All I see is a guy who likes to think he's right all the time. Why else did you doublepost about 10 times in a row and try to disprove everything anyone else said in this thread? Somebody's ego is getting a little out of control here.

I've never changed my story. I don't have a lot of confidence in Maroney right now and his numbers HAVE been in decline since week 7. However it doesn't make sense for BB to still be using these "kid gloves" with Maroney. He is a grown man and a professional athlete.

If it is for the good of the team that the Patriots display some semblance of a running game, use what you've got. In this case it's Maroney. Who cares if the Ravens have a good run D? That doesn't mean you concede the entire running aspect of your offense before you even try.

Why would you be AGAINST using Maroney against the Ravens unless the real reason is you're afraid he's going to fall FLAT on his face? In the end, your ego doesn't matter. What matters is winning football games.

I don't care if Maroney does average only 3.1 ypc against the Ravens. So long as he forces them to at least play some defense vs the RUN and not sell out against the pass, he will have accomplished his job. This is no time to go easy on Maroney's ego or the ego of some out of control poster on some fan messageboard. We're talking about winning football games here.

A multidimensional offense has a better chance of succeeding, period. Mix in the screens and the runs, and keep that defense honest. Yes we'll pass more than we run, that's playing to the Patriots strengths, however completely eliminating the running game would be a mistake imo.

And ultimately, if you pull Maroney out of every game where he could possibly face a stiff challenge, how the hell is he going to grow as a player? Let's take the kid gloves off and let's see what Maroney has really got.

Do you have any idea just how clueless you're coming off as right now? For crying out loud, you destroy your argument in your very own post. If it's all about winning, how the hell do you get more wins out of 11 games than going 11-0? If it's all about winning and the team is 11-0, you've got no cause to be making any negative comments about Maroney, or anything else Patriot for that matter.

 

[emoney_33]

Screens or running the ball would have been my preference in the 1st half. The stats are misleading. Why don't you look at the personel? Sheppard & Co. vs. their front 7 which I bet even you couldn't name half w/o looking it up. I'll go with their secondary! They were blitzing for the very fact that the Pats showed no threat of a running game.

Yea because there's no such thing as a run blitz and if we ran it they would stop blitzing?

Their defensive hog rating is pretty good. You choose to create things, BB has explained it already. Enough with this nonsense

 

[Deus Irae]

Screens or running the ball would have been my preference in the 1st half. The stats are misleading. Why don't you look at the personel? Sheppard & Co. vs. their front 7 which I bet even you couldn't name half w/o looking it up. I'll go with their secondary! They were blitzing for the very fact that the Pats showed no threat of a running game.

You're kidding, right? The Patriots had 3 first half possessions total. That's it. They scored two touchdowns and a field goal. Would screen passes have somehow led to them recovering Philly's onside kick or something?