Should Ben TheRapist be called an elite QB?

[jcdavey]

ben may not have great stats, and may be merely a game managing system qb, but


i don't think there's a tougher qb in the nfl, and i don't think there's more of a clutch qb in the nfl

he's the guy i would want leading a gamewinning drive, he's got wheels, and he's just very clutch

over the course of 4 years spanning the 2006, 07 , 08 and 09 seasons, ben got sacked 190 times

over that same period of time, peyton manning was sacked 59 times

 

[MassPats38]

personally, I prefer "unindicted rapist."

As one who works in criminal law, District Attorneys do not tend to dismiss a case with a public statement involving lengthy readings of a police investigation (and plenty of DAs I work with had the same opinion). And the cop working security got fired, when the practice of off-duty details would not be frowned upon. All that implies the victim and primary witness got paid and declined to testify against him, forcing the State to drop its case. We will likely never know because you could easily include a confidentiality clause in a generous payout that would exceed a judgment in a civil suit. His PR guys apparently learned from Tiger Woods and Roger Clemens.

I will accept the innocent until proven guilty standard in regard to the criminal justice system, but in the court of public opinion Ben is as innocent of the offense as O.J. was of the murder charge (he was found guilty of that in a later civil suit). Ben did not get suspended for 4 games because he got liquored up one night, the NFL just did not have the judgment to back a lengthier suspension. I have no problem with his new nicknames arising from this incident.

 

[Racervx54]

My good you guys are such homers! Just in case you didnt or cant figure it out. If Ben wins this super bowl he has 3 yes 3 rings just like Tommy! So yes he is an Elite QB!! Have you forgot the Defense Tommy had when he won his 3?

 

[PittPatriot]

His alleged felony has nothing to do with him as a QB.
Win or lose vs. GB, Ben is an Elite QB. He has proven himself in the regular season and in the playoffs.
If he wins a 3rd ring, there is no reason why he should not be mentioned in the same breadth as Brady and Manning.
We disregard stats and talk about Championships when we make the argument of Brady over Manning...it that argument is valid then we can't just unimagine Ben's (if he wins this year) 3 rings.
Another impressive feat is accomplishing this goal under 2 different coaches (Cowher vs Tomlin) and OC's (Wisenhunt vs. Arayans).

 

[tuckeverlasting]

As one who works in criminal law, District Attorneys do not tend to dismiss a case with a public statement involving lengthy readings of a police investigation (and plenty of DAs I work with had the same opinion). And the cop working security got fired, when the practice of off-duty details would not be frowned upon. All that implies the victim and primary witness got paid and declined to testify against him, forcing the State to drop its case. We will likely never know because you could easily include a confidentiality clause in a generous payout that would exceed a judgment in a civil suit. His PR guys apparently learned from Tiger Woods and Roger Clemens.

I will accept the innocent until proven guilty standard in regard to the criminal justice system, but in the court of public opinion Ben is as innocent of the offense as O.J. was of the murder charge (he was found guilty of that in a later civil suit). Ben did not get suspended for 4 games because he got liquored up one night, the NFL just did not have the judgment to back a lengthier suspension. I have no problem with his new nicknames arising from this incident.

boy, i'm glad there's other people not blind to the facts. interesting that you probably deal with dbags like him on a daily basis. figured i was part of the silent majority.

 

[JMarr]

His alleged felony has nothing to do with him as a QB.
Win or lose vs. GB, Ben is an Elite QB. He has proven himself in the regular season and in the playoffs.
If he wins a 3rd ring, there is no reason why he should not be mentioned in the same breadth as Brady and Manning.
We disregard stats and talk about Championships when we make the argument of Brady over Manning...it that argument is valid then we can't just unimagine Ben's (if he wins this year) 3 rings.
Another impressive feat is accomplishing this goal under 2 different coaches (Cowher vs Tomlin) and OC's (Wisenhunt vs. Arayans).

Disagree that # of rings = elite. (and let's see if Ben even gets to three. Anyone think that, should Pitt. win the SB it will mainly be because of their defense?)

Turn your argument around and tell me that Dan Marino was never an elite QB in this league.

 

[Sivy]

ben may not have great stats, and may be merely a game managing system qb, but


i don't think there's a tougher qb in the nfl, and i don't think there's more of a clutch qb in the nfl he's the guy i would want leading a gamewinning drive, he's got wheels, and he's just very clutch

over the course of 4 years spanning the 2006, 07 , 08 and 09 seasons, ben got sacked 190 times

over that same period of time, peyton manning was sacked 59 times

you dont think playing with a broken foot/Rib/Shoulder is tough?

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Disagree that # of rings = elite. (and let's see if Ben even gets to three. Anyone think that, should Pitt. win the SB it will mainly be because of their defense?)

Turn your argument around and tell me that Dan Marino was never an elite QB in this league.

before elway ever won a superbowl, i'd take him over the rapist.

 

[PittPatriot]

Disagree that # of rings = elite. (and let's see if Ben even gets to three. Anyone think that, should Pitt. win the SB it will mainly be because of their defense?)

Turn your argument around and tell me that Dan Marino was never an elite QB in this league.

I do not mean to say that rings=Elite.
I think most of us (Brady supporters) use the rings to put Brady over Manning.
If rings carry so much weight, and Ben wins his THIRD, then he MUST be mentioned somewhere amongst the Elite.
Marino is an outlier...is numbers were so unworldly that he can't be left out.

 

[jcdavey]

My good you guys are such homers! Just in case you didnt or cant figure it out. If Ben wins this super bowl he has 3 yes 3 rings just like Tommy! So yes he is an Elite QB!! Have you forgot the Defense Tommy had when he won his 3?

also if ben wins the superbowl, he'll be 3-0 in superbowls

having lost zero of them

3-0 = 1.000 winning %

so if he can do that, that's pretty damn good, even if that sb vs seattle was one of his worst games ever, he did score a td rushing, and was able to help keep some drives alive late to preserve a win

 

[jcdavey]

you dont think playing with a broken foot/Rib/Shoulder is tough?

ben played a sb with broken ribs lol

brady's tough, rivers is tough

ben's just the toughest IMO

and i'm not a steelers fan, you however are a pats fan, correct?

 

[PittPatriot]

FWIW, Ben got molested by Mendenhall in national television:

Love it! LOL

 

[ivanvamp]

the steelers have had a top 5 defense every year for the last 20 years and never won anything untill they got big ben yes he is elite

Yes, Ben is right there in the top group. Tough SOB and makes big plays in big spots. But the Steelers win because of their defense. Look at their years since 2001:

Year: record, Def Rank (pts), Def Rank (yds), Result
2001: 13-3, #3 pts, #1 yds, lost in AFC Championship game (to NE)
2002: 10-5-1, #16 pts, #7 yds, lost in divisional round
2003: 6-10, #15 pts, #9 yds, missed playoffs
2004: 15-1, #1 pts, #1 yds, lost in AFC Championship game (to NE)
2005: 11-5, #3 pts, #4 yds, won Super Bowl
2006: 8-8, #11 pts, #9 yds, missed playoffs
2007: 10-6, #2 pts, #1 yds, lost in wild card round
2008: 12-4, #1 pts, #1 yds, won Super Bowl
2009: 9-7, #12 pts, #5 yds, missed playoffs
2010: 12-4, #1 pts, #2 yds, have advanced to the Super Bowl

So their best years (2001, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2010) they had essentially the best defense in the league. When their D slipped (never to a bad level, but just to a merely "good" level), they didn't do a heck of a lot.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Despite Brady's recent playoff struggles, he's the first QB I'd take in a playoff game tomorrrow.

If Brady's not available, I take Ben. I don't care what anybody says or how much I hate the guy myself. He threw some horrible passes yesterday but when it came down to it, who converted 2 clutch first down passes to ice the game? Before anybody tries to downplay that I'll kindly remind you of the '06 AFCGG, the 4th and 2 game, and the SD/Indy games this year we needed our defense to somehow bail us out on the final drives. His playoff record speaks for itself, yes Pittsburgh has a great defense... they've had a great defense for about 19 years now since Bill Cowher took over and guess what, Cowher did not get a ring until Ben game along.

As far as overall, I have him #4 after Brady/Peyton/Brees.

 

[Sivy]

ben played a sb with broken ribs lol

brady's tough, rivers is tough

ben's just the toughest IMO

and i'm not a steelers fan, you however are a pats fan, correct?

yes, yes I am.

and he played in a game with Broken Ribs? Brady played entire seasons with a broken something.

 

[Kid~Brady]

How can you say the he's not? Dispite people's off field feelings towards this guy, he knows how to win games. He's young too. He IS an elite QB. Not always the prettiest games but he gets the job done point blank.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

How can you say the he's not? Dispite people's off field feelings towards this guy, he knows how to win games. He's young too. He IS an elite QB. Not always the prettiest games but he gets the job done point blank.

bottom line is he's a decent game manager, not an elite qb. the only time i see pitt in the sb is either when brady gets injured or someone knocks us out before we get to pittsburgh and there's a big sigh of relief there.

 

[Its_The_Patriots]

Ben and the Steelers are my heros right now. They sent the Jets and their loud mouth coach back where they belong, on the couch eating a gotdamm snack!

 

[PittPatriot]

bottom line is he's a decent game manager, not an elite qb. the only time i see pitt in the sb is either when brady gets injured or someone knocks us out before we get to pittsburgh and there's a big sigh of relief there.

Well if your argument is that the Patriots match up well with the Steelers...I think most people will agree.
Unfortunately, Brady choked in the Divisional Round and now we will never know how handily we could have beaten Pittsburgh in the AFCCG that never was. Brady let a team that me openly hates talk trash all week long, beat him down for 3 hours, and then talk more trash afterwards. Brady's failure should not take anything away from the Steelers' exhibition of how to defend your home turf.
You don't have to like Ben (most do not) - but as a QB, he is hard to overlook in the conversation that includes Manning and Brady. IMO, I do not put Brees or Rivers at that level - especially after the 2010 season.

 

[PittPatriot]

Ben and the Steelers are my heros right now. They sent the Jets and their loud mouth coach back where they belong, on the couch eating a gotdamm snack!

Agreed. It still burns me that WE could not do it a week earlier.