Should Ben TheRapist be called an elite QB?

[Real American Hero]

Only point I am trying to make is that Ben is doing almost exactly what brady was doing from 2001-2005 with the Pats. As far as I remember Pats fans were calling Brady the best QB in the league at that time because he simply won games, he had an amazing playoff record, and was the most clutch QB in the game. Which is exactly what Ben is right now.

Almost exactly with the key difference being that Brady had to go into Pittsburgh twice to win an AFC championship, had to beat "the greatest show on turf", duel with Indy countless times. Picking a signature win for Brady is tough because there were just so damned many of them. Picking a signature win for Ben and the Steelers right now is tough because I can't think of one.

 

[BadMoFo]

Big Ben is a therapist, like Dr. Phil?

 

[Kid~Brady]

Big Ben is a therapist, like Dr. Phil?

Of course, his methods includes cornering drunk females in bar bathrooms and taking a whack at it! I heard it clears the mind, really.

 

[stavros27]

Let's see....he was part of the first team to ever win the Sb as a #6 seed and winning every game on the road to win the SB. I'm guessing you don't remember the classic game in Indy where his tackle after Bettis fumbled prevented the Colts from going up late in the game.

They topped the divisional rival Ravens in the AFC championship in 2008, and this year as well in an incredible comeback win. And of course the 2008 SB with his signature winning drive and touchdown to Holmes.

Still not enough?

 

[ivanvamp]

Almost exactly with the key difference being that Brady had to go into Pittsburgh twice to win an AFC championship, had to beat "the greatest show on turf", duel with Indy countless times. Picking a signature win for Brady is tough because there were just so damned many of them. Picking a signature win for Ben and the Steelers right now is tough because I can't think of one.

This one doesn't interest you?

YouTube - Santonio Holmes Game Winning Touchdown Super Bowl 43. Steelers 27 Cardinals 23

 

[BSR]

Only point I am trying to make is that Ben is doing almost exactly what brady was doing from 2001-2005 with the Pats. As far as I remember Pats fans were calling Brady the best QB in the league at that time because he simply won games, he had an amazing playoff record, and was the most clutch QB in the game. Which is exactly what Ben is right now.

I don't think anyone really started making that claim about Brady until after the 2004 superbowl. And even after that, it wasn't until he started putting up gaudy stats that the general media picked it up as well. I think its right to say that Ben would almost be a HOF lock if he wins a third. I don't think that is a stretch at all. I still wouldn't put him on the same level as Manning and Brady though. I mean, even back then we said Manning was at least the second best QB and he hadn't even won a SB. So winning superbowls isn't the only measure but it certainly is part of it.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Ben is an outstanding QB and if he gets his 3rd title I don't know how anyone cannot say that he has been the most consistent QB of the past decade outside of Brady and Manning.

While he does not have the stats of Manning or Brady he certainly knows how to win and knows how to make plays out of nothing.

With the exception of the SB against Seattle,When it comes to the playoffs,Ben has been a great player.

If you have daughters in their late teens or early twenties I would try to persuade the girl from Ben being their older boyfriend, but if you want a QB to lead your team,he is a fine choice.

 

[Real American Hero]

The Colts win in 2006 WAS impressive but the taint of the officiating in that SB took much away for me. That Colts game is the only time that I can honestly say to myself that they beat another team that was the class of the division.

As for the Cardinal game all I remember was that boneheaded pick 6 Warner through at the goal line that I called as they were lining up.

To me though this dynasty is just missing that big rivalry that makes it special. All the great ones had one.

 

[PittPatriot]

OT: Psycho-T is the all-time leading rebounder and scorer in ACC history and went 4-0 at Cameron Indoor Stadium. (He sold it back to Dook in a FSBO when he graduated.) Hansbrough is 12th all-time in Div 1 scoring just ahead of Larry Bird and just behind Elvin Hayes. Hansbrough is 1st all-time in free throws - 100 ahead of the scond place finisher Pete Maravich. Toughest guy ever. Jury's out on Singler, but another title is far from only criteria. JJ's turning into a solid pro - better than Psycho-T.

Agreed on Tyler - my 2nd favorite Heel of all time behind Jeff Lebo.

 

[ivanvamp]

The Colts win in 2006 WAS impressive but the taint of the officiating in that SB took much away for me. That Colts game is the only time that I can honestly say to myself that they beat another team that was the class of the division.

As for the Cardinal game all I remember was that boneheaded pick 6 Warner through at the goal line that I called as they were lining up.

To me though this dynasty is just missing that big rivalry that makes it special. All the great ones had one.

I think the Pats-Steelers-Colts of the last decade has been incredible to watch.

Regular season records:
Patriots: 121-39 (.756)
Colts: 115-45 (.719)
Steelers: 96-64 (.600)

Playoff records:
Patriots: 14-5
Colts: 9-8
Steelers: 11-3

Super Bowl Titles: (5 or 6 out of a possible 10)
Patriots: 3
Colts: 1
Steelers: 2 (going on 3?)

Conference Titles: (9 out of a possible 10)
Patriots: 4
Colts: 2
Steelers: 3

Division Titles: (22 out of a possible 30)
Patriots: 8
Colts: 7
Steelers: 7

Head-to-Head (Regular season)
Patriots:
- vs Pit: 4-2
- vs Ind: 6-4
Colts:
- vs Pit: 2-1
- vs NE: 4-6
Steelers:
- vs NE: 2-4
- vs Ind: 1-2

Head-to-Head (Post season)
Patriots:
- vs Pit: 2-0
- vs Ind: 2-1
Colts:
- vs Pit: 0-1
- vs NE: 1-2
Steelers:
- vs NE: 0-2
- vs Ind: 1-0

TOTAL Head-to-Head
Patriots: 14-7 (.667)
Colts: 7-10 (.412)
Steelers: 4-8 (.333)

This is Ali-Frazier-Foreman of the NFL the past decade.

 

[PittPatriot]

Almost exactly with the key difference being that Brady had to go into Pittsburgh twice to win an AFC championship, had to beat "the greatest show on turf", duel with Indy countless times. Picking a signature win for Brady is tough because there were just so damned many of them. Picking a signature win for Ben and the Steelers right now is tough because I can't think of one.

Well, ask a Steelers fan. We are Patriots fans so every little thing Brady does is magic...I am sure Steelers fans would call the 2005 playoffs a series of "signature wins." To be the top 3 seeds (Cincy, Indy, and Denver) on the road and then win the SB is pretty amazing. Even Seattle was the #1 seed out of the NFC.
How about in 2008 when they beat a hot Chargers team or defended their home turf in the AFCCG against their archrival (Baltimore) enroute to another SB? If the Pats had not pissed away the Jets game, we would have called that a "signature" win for the ongoing dynasty.

 

[Real American Hero]

Well, ask a Steelers fan. We are Patriots fans so every little thing Brady does is magic...I am sure Steelers fans would call the 2005 playoffs a series of "signature wins." To be the top 3 seeds (Cincy, Indy, and Denver) on the road and then win the SB is pretty amazing. Even Seattle was the #1 seed out of the NFC.
How about in 2008 when they beat a hot Chargers team or defended their home turf in the AFCCG against their archrival (Baltimore) enroute to another SB? If the Pats had not pissed away the Jets game, we would have called that a "signature" win for the ongoing dynasty.

Yet Indy is the only team on that list with a recent championship.

I guess I'm going back to the great rivalries we have seen with other dynasties. The Steelers had the Raiders and Cowboys (and Vikings) in the 70s, the 9ers had the Cowboys, Giants and Bears in the 80s, the Cowboys in the 90s had the 9ers, the Pats had the Colts, Steelers, Rams (and Chargers) in the 00s. With the exception of the teams in parentheses all the teams listed won at least one SuperBowl in the same time frame.

I'm not knocking the Steelers, they are doing what we can't do lately - win the playoff games that we should be winning. I'm just scratching my head at what appears to also be some great luck in getting there, including dodging the Pats every time.

 

[D-Money]

The guy's a tough QB and he can move out the pocket.He's more nimble then TB.He has a chance to win 3 now and he's only 28.Brady might have company now.TB needs to start playing better come the playoffs!

 

[Garbanza]

You 'gotta give the devil his due. He's a "winner" on the field (a total loser off of it). He wins with his toughness and his legs. He's clutch. He could suck for three quarters and then pull a brillant series out of his arse when its needed. This is the only way to explain yesterdays 30+ passer rating, 10-19 completions and two interceptions....and one rushing TD. Didn't he have a passer rating of 20+ in his first SB victory? Meh.

 

[Ron Sellers]

also if ben wins the superbowl, he'll be 3-0 in superbowls

having lost zero of them

3-0 = 1.000 winning %

so if he can do that, that's pretty damn good, even if that sb vs seattle was one of his worst games ever, he did score a td rushing, and was able to help keep some drives alive late to preserve a win

A lot of NFL fans (and almost all Steeler fans) like to use the record in Super Bowls stat as some sort of be-all end-all stat. I think it's kind of ridiculous.

Reason for that is by that logic losing in a conference championship (or earlier - or losing regular season games to miss the playoffs entirely) does not count against a player or team at all - yet winning those same exact games (but losing in the final game) is something horribly bad.

Sorry, but that makes no sense - though both fans and the media will continue to recite won-loss records in the Super Bowl for eternity as if it was some deeply meaningful stat.


Back to the original topic: yes, Roethlisburger is currently one of the NFL's best quarterbacks even if his style is markedly different from that of Brady, Manning, Brees and Rivers.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

If **** LeBeau and his defense was not the heart and soul of that team, Ben would be nowhere and probably look more like Bubby Brister or Mark Malone in terms of winning percentage,but he still deserves credit for keeping an offense just good enough to stay ahead on the scoreboard.

 

[BSR]

I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet but is 3 out of 6 (if they win) a dynasty? It sure doesn't feel like it but it would be difficult to say that this hasn't been a great run by them.

 

[Coach42]

I hate the guy but he is a great QB. He might not get things done the conventional way but he does get things done. With the pass defense rules being what they are today I think all QB's playing now are hard to compare to QB's of yesterday. I mean are we really in the "Golden Age" of QBs (Rodgers, Brady, Rothelisberger, Manning, Brees, Rivers etc.) or is the game just now slanted in the passing offenses favor?

 

[Rob0729]

He wins in the clutch. He will never be a classic QB, but he can make plays. Elite is tough because I don't know if he can win games on his own like a Brady, Manning, Rivers can. But he is a very good QB.

 

[NEPatriot]

I don't think you should be calling him a rapist given he wasn't convicted of anything. If you added alleged...

It's quite poor taste to be honest.

Agreed. While he might not have the best QB style, he wins. I don't see how you can't call him an elite QB.