Should Ben TheRapist be called an elite QB?

[eagle eye]

He's elite but he's not in the top tier. He's just below the top tier QBs in the league. My reasoning being that he's the type of QB that can make crucial throws to win games but he's not the type of QB who can take his team on his back and score lots of touchdowns to win games on a consistent basis, like for instance what Rodgers did last week or what guys like Brady, Manning, Rivers, and Brees do on a consistent basis. You take away that defense and Roethlisberger has 0 rings.

Top Tier QBs: (Doesn't really matter which order you rank them as they're all good enough to win super bowls and put up impressive stats):

Brady, Rivers, Manning, Rodgers, Brees


Second Tier QBs: (Roethlisberger is the top of this list.)
Roethlisberger, Vick (based on his performance this season), Schaub, Romo, Eli Manning, etc.

No way that Rivers is in that top tier for me. He hasn't proven his ability in the clutch at any stage, in fact he has crumbled in big playoff games all too often.
For me to be elite you have to be proven when it counts. Thats why for me Montana is the greatest in my lifetime so far with Brady just behind him.

Brees made that top tier elite list for me last year, Roethlisberger is there too. Lets see how Rodgers does in the big one before we add him.

 

[stavros27]

If If If If If If If If

How can Pats fans of all people discredit Ben as a big time elite QB when the biggest debate ever had been ongoing for nealy a decade about their own qb for the same reason?

 

[lightningbolt]

No way that Rivers is in that top tier for me. He hasn't proven his ability in the clutch at any stage, in fact he has crumbled in big playoff games all too often.
For me to be elite you have to be proven when it counts. Thats why for me Montana is the greatest in my lifetime so far with Brady just behind him.

Brees made that top tier elite list for me last year, Roethlisberger is there too. Lets see how Rodgers does in the big one before we add him.

He's proved his ability to be clutch countless times in the regular season. For instance, this great comeback against the Chiefs a few years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86A_MlcOazo&feature=related

Or this one against the Giants last season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btx0TWOgFjE

There are many more examples like these in Rivers career. He's also either the first or second in terms of QB rating in the 4th quarter; I remember it was him and Brady so I'm not sure which one of them has the first place spot at the moment but the fact that he performs best in the 4th quarter lets you know he's clutch. He also has the highest QB rating of any QB in NFL history and he's never had a game where he's thrown more than 2 interceptions, which is an NFL record for how many games he's played.

Regarding the playoffs, if you've watched the Chargers recent playoff games you'd know that idiotic antics by some of our players and a kicker who chokes in every playoff game is what has prevented him from getting anywhere, not to mention the fact that Norv Turner is his coach. For instance last season, our kicker missed all three of his attempts against the Jets in our divisional round playoff game.

If he had just hit one of those kicks the game would have went to overtime and if he had hit two out of the three we would have won. Compare that to Brady who had Adam Vinatieri all those years making crucial game winning kicks in the post season.

 

[JMarr]

It's a team game, so why would winning make you an elite QB? If Ward wins 3 SBs is he an elite WR? What about Farrior? I could go on and on.

It just doesn't make sense to group players when it comes to team statistics.

Exactly. He wins, but it's ugly to watch, and except for him being nearly impossible for one defender to take to the ground, he's a middle tier QB at best. He made maybe 3 or 4 decent throws at the most, as he usually does. The rest was crap.

 

[TriplecHamp]

He's on the same level as Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers IMO. There are only 2 ELITE QB's in the NFL.

 

[tests]

Agreed. Roethlisberger is like Bradshaw; a 2nd tier type of QB who had a great team around him. You give Dan Marino the team that Roethlisberger has now when he was in his prime and you give Roethlisberger the Dolphins that Marino played on and I guarantee you Marino would have just as much if not more super bowls than Roethlisberger and Ben would have 0. Roethlisberger can't be considered the best QB playing currently in the NFL when he's not even the best QB from his draft class. Philip Rivers is superior to him; he's just stuck having Norv Turner as his coach.

thats a bad argument imo. give brady the dolphins or manning, do you see them performing well too?

 

[lightningbolt]

thats a bad argument imo. give brady the dolphins or manning, do you see them performing well too?

No. But, I consider Marino on the level of those two. So, if Marino couldn't get it done on that team, then neither could Brady or Manning if they played on that team back then. It's a team sport; having the best QB ever will not help if other aspects of your team are lacking.

 

[lightningbolt]

He's on the same level as Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers IMO. There are only 2 ELITE QB's in the NFL.

Rivers, Brees, and Rodgers will retire with stats that are comparable to Manning and Brady and one among them already has a ring with another one probably on the way in two weeks if Rodgers gets it done, so how can you say that they aren't comparable to Brady and Manning? Quit being a homer. Do you honestly believe that if Tom Brady swapped places with Philip Rivers that he'd be able to do any better than Rivers considering that his coach would be Norv Turner and he'd have a horrible kicker whereas Rivers would have Bill Belichick as his coach and the greatest clutch kicker in NFL history?

 

[condon84]

He wouldn't have needed to make those crucial plays if the Steelers had managed to score some points on offense in the second half. Roethlisberger did nothing for the whole second half until that crucial third down pass. Why is he praised for making one play when he missed a dozen previous opportunities that a guy like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, etc. would have capitalized on.

He made some critical third down runs (at least two in the second half) that kept drives going at the very least and stem the tide from completely going the Jets way. Those were critical in keeping the Jets momentum at bay when it looked like they were at the cusp of completely taking over the game.

I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I realize that he's as clutch as they come when the moment sometimes is too big for certain individuals.

I would take Ben over Manning in a big game any day.

 

[robbomango]

No. But, I consider Marino on the level of those two. So, if Marino couldn't get it done on that team, then neither could Brady or Manning if they played on that team back then. It's a team sport; having the best QB ever will not help if other aspects of your team are lacking.

Brady's a better team player than marino that's what sets him apart from most to me. Marino's antics chewing out receivers on the field, pointing fingers in their faces, he wasn't a great team player.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't think you should be calling him a rapist given he wasn't convicted of anything. If you added alleged...

It's quite poor taste to be honest.

FWIW, a good friend of mine is a Squealers fan (she's from Pittsburgh), and she flat out says, "My quarterback's a rapist."

 

[brady199]

Think of it in theese terms... Will Ben make it into the Hall of Fame? Maybe a little early to answer, but I would say if he continues his current playing trend and keeps his nose clean, then Yes he does.

So for Me...

HALL OF FAME = Elite

 

[ausbacker]

FWIW, a good friend of mine is a Squealers fan (she's from Pittsburgh), and she flat out says, "My quarterback's a rapist."

No doubt we all have our own observations on the matter (much like we do with OJ). I just find it difficult to label someone something as disgusting as such without an actual conviction.

 

[lightningbolt]

Think of it in theese terms... Will Ben make it into the Hall of Fame? Maybe a little early to answer, but I would say if he continues his current playing trend and keeps his nose clean, then Yes he does.

So for Me...

HALL OF FAME = Elite

Two ways for a QB to get into the Hall of Fame:

1 - Put up impressive stats

2 - Win multiple Super bowls


Troy Aikman only did #2 and he got in on that basis. You take away his rings and he doesn't make it in. Marino made it based on #1. He was a stat machine and still holds many QB records and the ones that Favre broke are only because he hung around for so long like all time TD total or all time yard total, etc.

Brady will get in for doing both #1 and #2. Roethlisberger will get in solely because of #2. Does anyone honestly think he's HOF worthy based solely on his stats? If Rivers never wins a super bowl he'll probably still get into the HOF based on his career stats in the same way that Marino got in.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Rivers, Brees, and Rodgers will retire with stats that are comparable to Manning and Brady and one among them already has a ring with another one probably on the way in two weeks if Rodgers gets it done, so how can you say that they aren't comparable to Brady and Manning? Quit being a homer. Do you honestly believe that if Tom Brady swapped places with Philip Rivers that he'd be able to do any better than Rivers considering that his coach would be Norv Turner and he'd have a horrible kicker whereas Rivers would have Bill Belichick as his coach and the greatest clutch kicker in NFL history?

Wait so doing good with what you have constitutes being elite? Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have proven time and time again that they are on a different level than other QB's in the league. You can play the what if game all day long, I will go buy their resume's. Rivers had a great season but one great one doesn't put you in the same sentence as Brady or Manning. What was Rivers defense ranked this season BTW? Don't act like he was a one man team. The kid is good but GFY if you think he's elite...I don't think I have ever heard one analysts say that he's in the same boat as Manning or Brady.

 

[TriplecHamp]

If If If If If If If If

How can Pats fans of all people discredit Ben as a big time elite QB when the biggest debate ever had been ongoing for nealy a decade about their own qb for the same reason?

I don't care what the Steelers do in the Superbowl, Ben is Clutch and he's proven that but being clutch isn't the only thing that constitutes being elite.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

No doubt we all have our own observations on the matter (much like we do with OJ). I just find it difficult to label someone something as disgusting as such without an actual conviction.

it is disgusting. but what if the shoe(sorry rex) was on the other foot(again sorry) and brady was accused by two women of rape but was not convicted. would steeler fan have the IQ to tell the difference. i don't think so. brady is a rapist would be the first words out their mouths.


for me, rapistburger is a sexual predator and should be incarcerated. simple as that. look out women of dallas.

 

[eagle eye]

Two ways for a QB to get into the Hall of Fame:

1 - Put up impressive stats

2 - Win multiple Super bowls


Troy Aikman only did #2 and he got in on that basis. You take away his rings and he doesn't make it in. Marino made it based on #1. He was a stat machine and still holds many QB records and the ones that Favre broke are only because he hung around for so long like all time TD total or all time yard total, etc.

Brady will get in for doing both #1 and #2. Roethlisberger will get in solely because of #2. Does anyone honestly think he's HOF worthy based solely on his stats? If Rivers never wins a super bowl he'll probably still get into the HOF based on his career stats in the same way that Marino got in.

Roethlisberger is only 28 and is very likely to land somewhere in the 40k/50k career yardage area. He is top ten all time in career QB rating. He is the fastest starting QB to 50 wins. He has a bunch of rookie records. He has had 3 perfect passer rating games.
I really hate what I'm doing here.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

convicted of nothing - give the guy a break - he is a great playmaker - elite yes elite - deal with it - he did us a great service today - has always spoken highly of the pats - i'll root for the packers but am fine with him winning a third - enjoy your elite status Ben - you deserve it

 

[ausbacker]

it is disgusting. but what if the shoe(sorry rex) was on the other foot(again sorry) and brady was accused by two women of rape but was not convicted. would steeler fan have the IQ to tell the difference. i don't think so. brady is a rapist would be the first words out their mouths.


for me, rapistburger is a sexual predator and should be incarcerated. simple as that. look out women of dallas.

If you want to be considered a classless pig then be my guest. I would have hoped that Patsfans would enjoy a greater reputation than fans of any other organization.