Patriots Slot Corner

[townes]

Eugene Wilson played like one of the best free safeties in the league his rookie year, but his career didn't exactly pan out. I'm not predicting McCourty's demise, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say one year of production isn't enough to place him above a quality proven veteran like Bodden.

Rodney Harrison said after Wilson's first season that he had all the talent in the world but wasn't doing the work he needed to. Wilson's work ethic was the reason he tailed off, McCourty was known for his work ethic and film study before they drafted him so i don't think you will see the same demise.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Part 4
YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 4 (Steelers+Colts)‬‏

 

[Professor Frink]

I 'hear' you, and I don't disagree with your overall point. I just look at Wilson's career as one that was derailed by injuries, as opposed to being a situation where he just dropped off the map.

Perhaps that's that case. But he started 16 games in 05 and played pretty subpar football, so I'm not so sure. I tend to believe he looked better playing behind one of the best front 7s in the NFL and alongside one of the best SS to ever play.

 

[Ring 6]

Refusing to assess in the face of uncertainty is better than making an assessment based on insufficient data.

No it is not because the discussion calls for an assessment. And there is suffiucient data. Otherwise the answer to every question would be wait and find out later. It will be easy to answer who was a better player in 2011 after the season is over, but we don't have that information to base this discussion on.

Whether or not that's actually the case is a whole other story. Ausbacker is right to not assume that McCourty will imrpove, and to acknowledge that even regression is possible. OTOH, Bodden is an even bigger question mark, in my eyes, so I'd be pretty comfortable labeling McCourty as the #1 either way.

McCourty played better as a rookie than Bodden has ever played. That is enough for me to be reasonably confident that McCourty is a better player. Bodden also hasnt played football for a year and a half.

 

[Ring 6]

You're gerrymandering my comments to suit your own misguided interpretation of my position. I suggest re-reading my comments in their entirety because it's simple to comprehend.

Do you understand what a ? means? When I put a ? at the end it is to ask of that is what you mean, not to change your comment.
I would assume, as I typed that your comments indicate that players who have played at a lesser level for a long time are better than players who played at a higher level for a short time becuase of your comments.
You stated "Bodden has more runs on the board than McCourty" (surprisingly you think I was supposed to understand what that means) while saying McCourty played better than Bodden ever did.
Isn't my comment the exact conclusion that would reasonably be drawn from those comments?
Doesn't more runs on the board never playing as well mean he played at a lesser level for a longer time?

There is only 1 certainty at the moment. McCourty's best season is better than Bodden's best season. It's over to McCourty to replicate that moving forward.

Actually McCourty played better as a rookie than Bodden played in any of his NFL seasons. I would say that also means he is more talented, wouldn't you?
But in the end, it isn't a question of certainty. The question is who is better. All we can base that on is what has happened to this point. I suppose you could say McCourty is better, but both more apt to improve or decline from his current level than Bodden (although that is quesitonable based on Bodden missing a year) I don't think there is a way to say with anything close to certainty that Bodden is better.
In fact that would be the other thing that is certain. There is no way right now you can say Bodden is a better football player based on everything at our disposal.

Perhaps you want the discussion to be "We can't have one because there are possiblities that things could change" but I was under the impression we were discussing, to the best of our ability at the moment, who is the Patriots best corner.

 

[ausbacker]

Do you understand what a ? means? When I put a ? at the end it is to ask of that is what you mean, not to change your comment.
I would assume, as I typed that your comments indicate that players who have played at a lesser level for a long time are better than players who played at a higher level for a short time becuase of your comments.
You stated "Bodden has more runs on the board than McCourty" (surprisingly you think I was supposed to understand what that means) while saying McCourty played better than Bodden ever did.
Isn't my comment the exact conclusion that would reasonably be drawn from those comments?
Doesn't more runs on the board never playing as well mean he played at a lesser level for a longer time?

Actually McCourty played better as a rookie than Bodden played in any of his NFL seasons. I would say that also means he is more talented, wouldn't you?
But in the end, it isn't a question of certainty. The question is who is better. All we can base that on is what has happened to this point. I suppose you could say McCourty is better, but both more apt to improve or decline from his current level than Bodden (although that is quesitonable based on Bodden missing a year) I don't think there is a way to say with anything close to certainty that Bodden is better.
In fact that would be the other thing that is certain. There is no way right now you can say Bodden is a better football player based on everything at our disposal.

Perhaps you want the discussion to be "We can't have one because there are possiblities that things could change" but I was under the impression we were discussing, to the best of our ability at the moment, who is the Patriots best corner.

I made my position abundantly clear. Devin McCourty's scope for improvement is far greater than Leigh Bodden's career, however, I am waiting to see if McCourty can replicate his rookie season before I place him at #1 on my depth chart over the proven veteran.

I never argued Leigh Bodden is more talented than Devin McCourty. That's a silly position to hold.

 

[Professor Frink]

Why do you completley discount the fact that Bodden has a much larger body of work? If McCourty had a subpar rookie year everyone on this board would say you can't just judge him based on one year, but because he played well, one year is suddenly acceptable? If McCourty follows up his rookie campaign by playing at a similar level, or even a slight drop off, I'll be ready to say he is better than Bodden. Until then, there just isn't enough evidence.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I made my position abundantly clear. Devin McCourty's scope for improvement is far greater than Leigh Bodden's career, however, I am waiting to see if McCourty can replicate his rookie season before I place him at #1 on my depth chart over the proven veteran.

Bodden will be the RCB by default since he usually lined up as the team's RCB (Usually the 1st CB lines up in that spot) back in 2009. I also think he will be the sole CB out of the field on goaline and 1 WR set's just because of his height (6'1) compared that to McC (5'10) just to deal w. fade throws.

 

[ausbacker]

Bodden will be the RCB by default since he usually lined up as the team's RCB (Usually the 1st CB lines up in that spot) back in 2009. I also think he will be the sole CB out of the field on goaline and 1 WR set's just because of his height (6'1) compared that to McC (5'10) just to deal w. fade throws.

To be perfectly honest it doesn't bother me who is number 1 or number 2. All I want from Bodden & McCourty is to see them on the field for the entirety of season 2011/2012 together performing as well as they did in their respective first seasons with the Patriots.

That will go a long way to fixing many defensive problems. And yes, they can both rush the passer .

 

[NinjaZX6R]

To be perfectly honest it doesn't bother me who is number 1 or number 2. All I want from Bodden & McCourty is to see them on the field for the entirety of 2011 and 2012 together performing as well as they did in their first seasons with the Patriots.

This.
Speaking of McCourty
Better Draft Pick: Jason or Devin McCourty? | ProFootballFocus.com

 

[sbpatfan]

This.
Speaking of McCourty
Better Draft Pick: Jason or Devin McCourty? | ProFootballFocus.com

Is this the site no one takes seriously? I can never remember, but it's funny to see Butler ranked #2 among 2009 corners.

Also.. McCourty >>> Bodden. Simple eye test.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Is this the site no one takes seriously? I can never remember, but it's funny to see Butler ranked #2 among 2009 corners.

Also.. McCourty >>> Bodden. Simple eye test.

I think so..not sure.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I remember seeing this somewhere about Bodden.

FO's 2009 CB Charting data,
10th in success rate
4th in yards per pass (against)
1st in YAC (against)

Edit
FO's pages for Bodden and McC...
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/15445/leigh-bodden
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/24341/devin-mccourty

 

[Deus Irae]

Bodden showed that his time in Detroit, not Cleveland, was the aberration. That's great news for the Patriots. Now, he just needs to show that he's healthy and back up to snuff. If he can do that, and if Ty Warren is able to get back to being Ty Warren, the outlook for the defense should certainly be considered rosier than it was at the start of last season.

 

[supafly]

Bodden showed that his time in Detroit, not Cleveland, was the aberration. That's great news for the Patriots. Now, he just needs to show that he's healthy and back up to snuff. If he can do that, and if Ty Warren is able to get back to being Ty Warren, the outlook for the defense should certainly be considered rosier than it was at the start of last season.

RETURN OF THE INJURED

Bodden and Ty Warren getting back to form, the return of Wright, and Pryor (possibly McGowan if re-signed).

SECOND YR IMPROVEMENTS

Second year improvements from Cunningham, McCourty, Spikes and (maybe?) Deaderick and or/ Brown.

ANOTHER YR OF EXPERIENCE

Another year in the system for guys like Ninkovich, Chung, Arrington and (possibly Page).

ROCK SOLIDS

And the same consistent play that we have grown to expect from guys like Wilfork, Mayo, and Meriweather sound pretty damn good to me.

There's also the expected consistency of the role/specialty/sub-package players such as Sanders, and Guyton.

--Lots of reason for optimism, in my opinion--

 

[Fencer]

What makes a CB great is a combination of two abilities:

* Torturing the man he covers
* Dominating a whole region of the field

The more he's skewed to the second one, the less you want to bring him into the slot.

I'm not convinced McCourty is a Revis/Asomugha/NeonDeion field-eater yet, which makes bringing him inside less crazy.

 

[supafly]

What makes a CB great is a combination of two abilities:

* Torturing the man he covers
* Dominating a whole region of the field

The more he's skewed to the second one, the less you want to bring him into the slot.

I'm not convinced McCourty is a Revis/Asomugha/NeonDeion field-eater yet, which makes bringing him inside less crazy.

Certainly anything is possible, but that is a TOUCHY subject right there...

I would hate to mess with such a strong area, one that we have grown to be extremely confident and optimistic about.

McCourty was only the 4th rookie in the history of the franchise to go to the pro-bowl, has quickly gotten a tremendous amount of respect as a 'shutdown CB' here, and is incredibly talented in going up for the point of impact in regards to where the ball will be. That is certainly a talent that bodes well for outside CB coverage. He literally has the ability to practically take away the other teams' #1 WR.

Why mess with a good thing? Especially when we have a plethora of guys who could play the slot, but who have not exactly make us comfortable on the outside :

Arrington
Wilhite
Butler

(I don't want ANY of these guys replacing McCourty on the outside, as they are all better suited for the slot)

Which then brings us to the next question---Can Dowling essentially take over for McCourty on the outside, as Dowling has never even played the slot at all in the NCAA's, and his height and outside skills best suit him for the standard, outside CB spot?

I would not base anything off of Dowling 'potential' as of right now. He could be good, he could struggle as we saw with other 'high CB' picks such as Wheatley and Butler (both guys that we had such high hopes for)

You may have your opinion, and you may even be right---but I would not even consider messing with McCourty's position. Not for all of the money in the world

 

[NinjaZX6R]

YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 5 (Lions+Jets 2)‬‏

McC part 5

 

[sbpatfan]

YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 5 (Lions+Jets 2)‬‏

McC part 5

Nice videos man, you just torrenting the games and editing them from there?

 

[townes]

RETURN OF THE INJURED

Bodden and Ty Warren getting back to form, the return of Wright, and Pryor (possibly McGowan if re-signed).

SECOND YR IMPROVEMENTS

Second year improvements from Cunningham, McCourty, Spikes and (maybe?) Deaderick and or/ Brown.

ANOTHER YR OF EXPERIENCE

Another year in the system for guys like Ninkovich, Chung, Arrington and (possibly Page).

ROCK SOLIDS

And the same consistent play that we have grown to expect from guys like Wilfork, Mayo, and Meriweather sound pretty damn good to me.

There's also the expected consistency of the role/specialty/sub-package players such as Sanders, and Guyton.

--Lots of reason for optimism, in my opinion--

This how i see it as well, and i think they are much better positioned to deal with injuries than they were heading into last season.