Patriots Slot Corner

[BradyFTW!]

Refusing to assess does not make your assessment good.
We have seen on the field that McCourty has played better than Bodden.
If you must assess who is a better player, saying I want to wait, is saying you refuse to answer the question isnt it?

You aren't being asked to proclaim anything, but to discuss who is our best corner. Based on every logical piece of evidence it is McCourty.

Refusing to assess in the face of uncertainty is better than making an assessment based on insufficient data. Whether or not that's actually the case is a whole other story. Ausbacker is right to not assume that McCourty will imrpove, and to acknowledge that even regression is possible. OTOH, Bodden is an even bigger question mark, in my eyes, so I'd be pretty comfortable labeling McCourty as the #1 either way.

 

[SONS_OF_BELICHICK]

Personally ...I think our DB play this year is going to be excellent....we have the personnel/depth to match up with any team. People need to understand that we had 2nd and 3rd stringers in there covering last year. We also had a depleted dLine.
I hope we get some additional help in other areas in free agency.... but I think we are going to be fine.....we are getting younger, faster, and better quickly....thanks to the draft :rocker:

 

[ausbacker]

So you are saying a lesser player who has been in the league many years is better than a better player who has been in the league fewer years?
I would think that McCourty playing better as a rookie than Bodden has ever played in his career would be pretty convincing evidence.
Do you really think players peak as rookies?

You're gerrymandering my comments to suit your own misguided interpretation of my position. I suggest re-reading my comments in their entirety because it's simple to comprehend.

There is only 1 certainty at the moment. McCourty's best season is better than Bodden's best season. It's over to McCourty to replicate that moving forward.

 

[spacecrime]

McCourty's best season is better than Bodden's best season. It's over to McCourty to replicate that moving forward.

So Bodden with years of experience cannot match McCourty's rookie year. That matches my nonprofessional observation.

It is possible that McCourty won't improve, and it could be true. The race is not always to the swiftest nor the contest to the strongest, but that's the way to lay your bets.

Far and away most rookies improve year two. That's a tough trend to bet against. McCourty doesn't even have to improve. He can take astep backwards and still be better than Bodden has ever been.

It seems pretty simple and straightforward to me. Not sure what all the fuss is about (though I confess I didn't real the entire thread. I skipped the neener-neener-you're-a-weener type posts, which bore me unless they are really hot.

 

[spacecrime]

Personally ...I think our DB play this year is going to be excellent....we have the personnel/depth to match up with any team. People need to understand that we had 2nd and 3rd stringers in there covering last year. We also had a depleted dLine.

+1,000,000

Better DB play plus DLine IR folks back + OLBs Cunningham/Moore going into their second year...I think the defense will be fine.

Offense? Brady, Gronk-Hernadez, Branch-Welker, Woodhead or one of the two rooks or BJGE...

Can't see how we can go wrong.

 

[mgteich]

We all know where we were at the end of the year, a playoff team, with a slightly below average defense. For the season, we were 8th is points allowed. (Of course, the key stat we failed at was allowed 3rd down conversions).

To the secondary at the end of the year, we will add Bodden, Darling and Page, and McCourty will be a more experienced player. This has to be a major plus.

 

[jsull87]

You're gerrymandering my comments to suit your own misguided interpretation of my position. I suggest re-reading my comments in their entirety because it's simple to comprehend.

There is only 1 certainty at the moment. McCourty's best season is better than Bodden's best season. It's over to McCourty to replicate that moving forward.

I have no idea why people are attacking you for this opinion. It's perfectly reasonable to want to see more than 1 year of production from a player before making your judgement. JUst look at jenkins from dalas last year. In 2009 people would have taken him over most corners in the NFL after 1 good year. Thuis year he flat out sucked. A great player is measured over years of production not 1 year of success (see one tully banta cain).

I persoonally think all this is Moot as they will just play LCB and RCB which is each's strength. I'm hoping for either Butler to emerge from his cacoon and reach his potential and be our 3rd cb or for Ras I to suprise as a rookie. But i have great hopes for our ytoung talented DB's

 

[RayClay]

McCourty is already adjusting for next year when QBs start to learn what his name is and maybe test him and detect his tendencies the 2nd, 3rd time around.

Since nothing these top QBs and coaches can do will be beyond the incredible anticipation of this former "special teams" pick (ESPN), it's only left for the new wing in Canton to be built to house his trophies.

...unless he has a bad first game next year, in which case he's a bust and the whole draft was a waste.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Devin McCourty Part 2
YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 2 (Ravens+Chargers)‬‏

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Damn. This thread has made me yearn for the days the Pats could do no wrong. Remember when we could just insert guys like Earthwind Moreland into the lineup without a hitch? Now, we have a much more perfect roster than those teams of old, at least on paper, and according to physical attributes and draft status- it's time to put it all together and get that fourth ring.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Devin McCourty Part 3
YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 3 (Vikings + Browns)‬‏

 

[Professor Frink]

Devin McCourty Part 3
YouTube - ‪No. 32 Devin McCourty 2010 season Part 3 (Vikings + Browns)‬‏

Eugene Wilson played like one of the best free safeties in the league his rookie year, but his career didn't exactly pan out. I'm not predicting McCourty's demise, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say one year of production isn't enough to place him above a quality proven veteran like Bodden.

 

[Kasmir]

I think you left out one huge name when it comes to the slot corner and that is Chung.

I think ideally Butler shakes the jitters and he Chung split that role. I think at this time the evidence has shown Arrington to be the better corner than Butler but Butler has or at least obviously came in with a higher ceiling so I would hope he could. That said I think Chung and Arrington have to be considered the leaders for that role. (not Chungs only role as he will be in the normal safety spot plenty)

This brings up the puzzling question of what the "Star Position" is. I've been trying to research this with mixed results. Some sources claim that it's just another name for a slot corner, but I've also seen claims that while it often lines up over the slot receiver, it's a safety variant with primarily press coverage, short zone, and run support responsibilities. Chung was certainly playing that role in the 1st Miami game, where he was pressing Brandon Marshall for most of the game.

Does anyone out there have definitive knowledge of in what college (or HS) defensive system the "Star Position" originated, what its responsibilities are, and how it differs from a 3rd corner?

 

[charlie2]

McCourty? The guy that looks to be our future shutdown corner would go play the slot?

Wtf are you smoking?

It's like the Jets moving Revis to cover the slot man and leaving Andre Johnson alone.

McCourty stays where the **** he is at and battling opposing #1's.

You are thinking about things too rigidly- this isn't Madden where your #1 corner on your depth chart is on one side of the field of the field every play. You can be flexible based on matchups, down and distance situations, or catching the offense off guard. I think McCourty will see a LOT of action in the slot especially in crucial situations like 3rd down, with Dowling, Arrington, and Bodden manning the outside. Your point ignores the fact that sometimes a team's best receiver does line up in the slot- for instance Percy Harvin- where there were several plays McCourty defended him there. Regardless, things will be mixed up a lot but one thing is for certain- Chung can not play this position matched up against a wide receiver.

Overall, while i see the point about not messing with a great thing, I see no reason why McCourty can't develop into a Woodson/Revis type player who plays all over the field, taking away a teams best options. He absolutely has the physicality and skills to play both inside and out.

 

[randomk1]

You are thinking about things too rigidly- this isn't Madden where your #1 corner on your depth chart is on one side of the field of the field every play. You can be flexible based on matchups, down and distance situations, or catching the offense off guard. I think McCourty will see a LOT of action in the slot especially in crucial situations like 3rd down, with Dowling, Arrington, and Bodden manning the outside. Your point ignores the fact that sometimes a team's best receiver does line up in the slot- for instance Percy Harvin- where there were several plays McCourty defended him there. Regardless, things will be mixed up a lot but one thing is for certain- Chung can not play this position matched up against a wide receiver.

Overall, while i see the point about not messing with a great thing, I see no reason why McCourty can't develop into a Woodson/Revis type player who plays all over the field, taking away a teams best options. He absolutely has the physicality and skills to play both inside and out.

I want McCourty on the #1 receiver and deep threat on every play.If it is somebody like Harvin moving inside i don't have a problem with McCourty following him. Other than that i don't see the reason to move him.

If somebody is killing us over the middle then we have 10 other players on the field who's job is to stop it.

If a Austin Collie/Keller/some steeler is killing us over the middle would you move McCourty inside and leave a Reggie Wayne/Santonio Holmes/Mike Wallace with our #2 CB on the outside?

 

[Deus Irae]

Eugene Wilson played like one of the best free safeties in the league his rookie year, but his career didn't exactly pan out. I'm not predicting McCourty's demise, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say one year of production isn't enough to place him above a quality proven veteran like Bodden.

Wilson was a very good safety, for more than just his rookie year. The injuries finally made him gun shy, and he needed a change, but he's been able to to rebound a little bit, and to keep his NFL career going. He's not the player he once was, but he's back to being a starting NFL safety.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

This brings up the puzzling question of what the "Star Position" is. I've been trying to research this with mixed results. Some sources claim that it's just another name for a slot corner, but I've also seen claims that while it often lines up over the slot receiver, it's a safety variant with primarily press coverage, short zone, and run support responsibilities. Chung was certainly playing that role in the 1st Miami game, where he was pressing Brandon Marshall for most of the game.

Does anyone out there have definitive knowledge of in what college (or HS) defensive system the "Star Position" originated, what its responsibilities are, and how it differs from a 3rd corner?

The Star position in college is the nickel position of a formation. The star is close to the LOS and the 3rd WR, usually in the slot. Oregon plays that formation a lot and so do a lot of other college football teams.
They play the run, blitz a lot, and often cover. I believe Brandon Meriweather played that position during nickel formations in his senior year at the U.

From the formations I've seen in college, usually there are 4 down lineman, 2 LB's, 2 CB's and 3 Safeties. Sometimes it's 3 CB's and 2 Safeties.
I've seen it run from a 3-3-5 set too.
The Star is either a CB or a SS/FS, mostly SS, since they have the size to deal w. the run and cover too.

 

[charlie2]

I want McCourty on the #1 receiver and deep threat on every play. He has shown he has all the skills in the world to be great outside so i don't see the reason to move him.

If somebody is killing us over the middle then we have 10 other players on the field who's job is to stop it.

If a Austin Collie/Keller/some steeler is killing us over the middle would you move McCourty inside and leave a Reggie Wayne/Santonio Holmes/Mike Wallace with our #2 CB on the outside?

As I mentioned- I think it is going to be flexible and based upon Bodden's health and Dowling/Butler's development. Obviously, McCourty will be lined up outside for a majority of his snaps. However, I can see plenty of 3rd down situations where McCourty is guarding the slot, particularly in the red zone where the deep threat is significantly mitigated (this is PRECISELY how McCourty was used on Harvin).

On a side note, McCourty was not matched up against Holmes or Wayne for the most part- a majority of his snaps were on Garcon or Edwards (with Arrington and safety help on Wayne/Holmes). If Dowling or Bodden can handle this role adequately then I am all for McCourty defending a guy like Collie in the slot in a critical situation.

.

 

[Professor Frink]

Wilson was a very good safety, for more than just his rookie year. The injuries finally made him gun shy, and he needed a change, but he's been able to to rebound a little bit, and to keep his NFL career going. He's not the player he once was, but he's back to being a starting NFL safety.

The purpose of my post wasn't to bash Wilson. He was excellent for his first two years, but after that he was a significantly less impressive player. He is a starter, but only for the worst pass defense in the league. I'm not saying that is entirely his fault or anything, but I don't think he would be more than a rotational safety on a quality defense.

The only point I was trying to make is that while McCourty had an extremely impressive rookie campaign, that one year isn't enough evidence to definitively state that he is better than a guy like Bodden, who has been playing corner at a high level for several years.

Perhaps a better example would be Mark Anderson. He was drafted by the Bears in 06 and in his rookie year got 12 sacks and 4 FFs. In the 4 years since he has gotten 13.5 sacks and 1 FF, and is nothing more than a role player.

I'm not saying McCourty is destined for that kind of drop-off, I'm simply making the point that it remains a possibility.

 

[Deus Irae]

The purpose of my post wasn't to bash Wilson. He was excellent for his first two years, but after that he was a significantly less impressive player. He is a starter, but only for the worst pass defense in the league. I'm not saying that is entirely his fault or anything, but I don't think he would be more than a rotational safety on a quality defense.

The only point I was trying to make is that while McCourty had an extremely impressive rookie campaign, that one year isn't enough evidence to definitively state that he is better than a guy like Bodden, who has been playing corner at a high level for several years.

Perhaps a better example would be Mark Anderson. He was drafted by the Bears in 06 and in his rookie year got 12 sacks and 4 FFs. In the 4 years since he has gotten 13.5 sacks and 1 FF, and is nothing more than a role player.

I'm not saying McCourty is destined for that kind of drop-off, I'm simply making the point that it remains a possibility.

I 'hear' you, and I don't disagree with your overall point. I just look at Wilson's career as one that was derailed by injuries, as opposed to being a situation where he just dropped off the map.