Patriots decline was years in the making

[Deus Irae]

Yeah I'm already sick of reading that line.

Who's to say that Tom Brady can't be Steve Young? It's amazing how fast some of you have written him off.....

Tom Brady is Joe Montana. He's the first elite QB in the dynasty. My comment had nothing to do with writing off Brady. I've been saying since his injury that I expected this to be a down year for him because of time needed for both physical and mental rehabilitation. I expect him to be better, more consistent, and much less timid next season.

That said, the team hasn't found Steve Young yet. Until they do, don't get your hopes up. Brady's probably not going to be Brady in 2016, even if he's still an excellent QB at that time. It's just the nature of getting old, particularly after having suffered a major injury to a knee.

 

[Ryan]

Tom Brady is Joe Montana. He's the first elite QB in the dynasty. My comment had nothing to do with writing off Brady. I've been saying since his injury that I expected this to be a down year for him because of time needed for both physical and mental rehabilitation. I expect him to be better, more consistent, and much less timid next season.

That said, the team hasn't found Steve Young yet. Until they do, don't get your hopes up. Brady's probably not going to be Brady in 2016, even if he's still an excellent QB at that time. It's just the nature of getting old, particularly after having suffered a major injury to a knee.

I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm just not writing Brady or the Patriots off going into the next decade of football.

 

[mgteich]

As I've said before, if the patriot record over the past 5 years sin't good enough for you, I suggest that you become a lion fan.

The patriots have nothing to apologize for.

Last time I looked McGowan played well FOR A PORTION of the season,otherwise James Sanders would still be sitting on the bench - McGowan was decent but not worthy of mentioning as successful otherwise he would never have seen the pine.

Banta-Cain should never have been let go in the first place,that was another Belichick error,Banta Cain was coming into his own when the Pats let him go to SF and they were lucky to be able to get him back and apparently right now he is no sure bet to stick around in 2010.

Randy moss was a good addition but he goes into hibernation in ALL 4 playoff games for the Patriots..great WRs find a way to become factors in big time games..

Randy is a great regular season asset but don't trust him in do or die games,You can say teams blanketed him for excuses, but teams also blanketed Jerry Rice in his day but still he found a way to get the job done,Randy has been a decoy in the playoffs,nothing more.

Both FAs,most draft selections and trade pickups have been failures the past few years with some exceptions like Gostkowski,perhaps Mayo and Meriweather and taking Cain back when he should not have left in the first place..but the failures have outweighed the exceptions lately and Belichick has not been anywhere near good in the office as he has been on the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

As I've said before, if the patriot record over the past 5 years sin't good enough for you, I suggest that you become a lion fan.

The patriots have nothing to apologize for.

The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004. I'm reasonably certain that the Patriots ownership and front office considers that unacceptable, so why should fans believing that be called out for thinking the same way?

 

[mgteich]

I will leave the red xox fans to discuss among themselves.

It is not acceptable to lose. That does not mean than 31 teams are failures and should not celebrate what they did accomplish.

I do understand that I am in the minority. Red sox fans abound.

And yes, you and I agree on some of the specific failures of this past year in the decisionmaking of the Front Office. That doesn't mean the team is in the toilet and that we should celbrate what has been accomplished.

That I agree that we might have done bettter with better decsions does not make the kind of crap posted by others any more palatble or reasonable. Of course, in Boston it is understandable.

The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004. I'm reasonably certain that the Patriots ownership and front office considers that unacceptable, so why should fans believing that be called out for thinking the same way?

 

[Disco Volante]

1) Anyone who thinks that the 2007 season was part of long spiral downward is an idiot. We we were one crazy play away from being one the consensus top three or four teams of all time.

2) Anyone who whines and moans about being 11-5 without Brady in 2008 is a moron and/or a mediot.

and finally,

3) Anyone who considers a division winning season an aweful result of a long decline in the making shouldn't be paid for writing sports columns or should be a beat writer for a paper in Detroit instead of New England.

just my 2 vents and 2 cents

^

This...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

As I've said before, if the patriot record over the past 5 years sin't good enough for you, I suggest that you become a lion fan.

The patriots have nothing to apologize for.

Who said they have something to apologize for?...Any logic football fan with any type of brain knows that being on the top of the NFL is not a long term thing and going back more than 30 years of teams of the decade,it shows a team will eventually head towards the middle of the pack sooner or later and while this team MAY or MAY not go through it starting next season,you better be prepared for it,in case more offseason blunders continue and guys like Wilfork and/or Mankins and/or Gostkowski leave ect .

Sometimes its good to see what REAL fans are when the team is not so good....We may find that out next year but heres hoping we won't.

I must confess,it would be very interesting to see what a 5-11 Patriots team would look like in Patsfans.com but of course I don't want that any time soon even though it would seperate the true spirited fans from the bandwagoners by those that "go on vacation" from the site until they win the SB again.

I know I would be here when they have a good year or totally suck...will you?

I have an old shirt that says "I survived the 1990 season"...that pretty much tells you I will be there thick or thin

 

[makoute]

Yes. I don't know if my wording is the same as yours, but I agree that what your saying has been Bills biggest boo boo in FA.

It's like he wants to go after all these "what if" fill ins for cheap, thinking that he if he can bring out their potential he'll get maximum value for little dollar. This has to stop. We need to stop "patching" up our needs in FA and start landing what we need. No we don't need to go crazy, we just need to find the right, proven guys. Not what ifs, none of that.

I wasn't a big Gaffney fan either, but I'd take him over signing Lewis, Galloway in a minute.

Well teams do not allow their good players to leave nowadays. They keep these players, when was the last time did you hear of team not being able to sign their good players because of the salary cap. That's why drafting is very important nowadays. That's probably the only place a team will be able to find playmakers in this era.

 

[Disco Volante]

it would be very interesting to see what a 5-11 Patriots team would look like in Patsfans.com

Just look at the first page now.

 

[spacecrime]

How you can argue that HORRIBLE FA pickups like Thomas,Burgess,Galloway,Beisel,Brown,Starks,Caldwell ect: and the loss of some top players and BAD drafts in the past 2-4 years is not a reason for a decline? - you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

I think that being an idiot is using winning the division as proof that a team is in decline.

First make the playoffs. Anything can happen from there. A team like the 2001 Pats can win the superbowl, and a team like the 2007 Pats can lose.

Losing in the playoffs is disappointing, not a sign that the team must be dismantled.

It is very popular among media and some here to declare every year that the Patriots run is over, that they are dead, and they use as proof that the Pats didn't win the superbowl, as though every year there is one good team and 31 teams that suck.

I'm sure if the Pats get to the AFCCG next year but not the SB, they will again declare the dynasty over.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004. I'm reasonably certain that the Patriots ownership and front office considers that unacceptable, so why should fans believing that be called out for thinking the same way?

They don't, though, because they are realists. Their goal is to compete every season. They feel they have. They would love to win it all every season, but they know that no team ever has or will. Jonathan made it pretty clear this week they are quite proud of their record of playoff appearance seasons over the course of the last 14 years during which they've owned this team. He said there is a difference between not having a goal of winning it all and not realizing that for a myriad of reasons it won't always pan out. Some teams will surprise you while others disappoint based on what your assessment is heading into a season. I think as new owners and long time fans the Krafts thought it was unacceptable that the franchise hadn't won in 42 seasons, but since 2001 they feel pretty good...about everything. I wish more fans could adopt that perspective.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Just look at the first page now.

LOL...I think it might be a little worse than that!

 

[spacecrime]

The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004. I'm reasonably certain that the Patriots ownership and front office considers that unacceptable, so why should fans believing that be called out for thinking the same way?

B.S. There is no way an owner or coach calls the last five years unacceptable.

Disappointing, not meeting goals, wish it were different,sure.

But the Pats have been the best team in the decade, and anyone who finds that unacceptable is simply unrealistic. Like the parent who berates his kid for getting a B along with four A's, there are people out there who will accept nothing but perfection from others, but there aren't many of them and the list doesn't include BB or Kraft.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

They don't, though, because they are realists. Their goal is to compete every season. They feel they have. They would love to win it all every season, but they know that no team ever has or will. Jonathan made it pretty clear this week they are quite proud of their record of playoff appearance seasons over the course of the last 14 years during which they've owned this team. He said there is a difference between not having a goal of winning it all and not realizing that for a myriad of reasons it won't always pan out. Some teams will surprise you while others disappoint based on what your assessment is heading into a season. I think as new owners and long time fans the Krafts thought it was unacceptable that the franchise hadn't won in 42 seasons, but since 2001 they feel pretty good...about everything. I wish more fans could adopt that perspective.

I myself am a realist that knows we won't win the Super Bowl every season and also realizes that this team as we know it could fall to the bottom as quickly as it rose to the top and just because Brady and Belichick are both here guarantees NOTHING but great talent of those two but it takes more to winning than just 2 guys,no matter how good they are at thier job.

The bottom line is a true fan should be HAPPY that their team has made the playoffs and a playoff team is a team that has succeeded to do more than 20 other teams have failed at..anything more than playing in the wildcard round is simply an extended bonus round for fans.

 

[Deus Irae]

I will leave the red xox fans to discuss among themselves.

It is not acceptable to lose. That does not mean than 31 teams are failures and should not celebrate what they did accomplish.

I do understand that I am in the minority. Red sox fans abound.

And yes, you and I agree on some of the specific failures of this past year in the decisionmaking of the Front Office. That doesn't mean the team is in the toilet and that we should celbrate what has been accomplished.

That I agree that we might have done bettter with better decsions does not make the kind of crap posted by others any more palatble or reasonable. Of course, in Boston it is understandable.

Instead of addressing the "Red Sox fans" in derogatory fashion after they put fans in the seats pretty much every year, despite not having won a World Series since Babe Ruth was traded, perhaps you could stick to the situation at hand. When you have elite talent and an opportunity to win it all, you do all you can to accomplish that, and try to stay on top for as long as possible. And your insulting the "Red Sox fans" doesn't change the stark reality that not one player from the 2009 defense's back 8 would have started on the 2003 team.

 

[emoney_33]

Bingo. This has been discussed before, but I don't think enough. If we can see who Brady is going to throw to on a TV, then defenders will have a field day.
Third, fourth and fifth options were scarce, but how much did his injuries, the play calling, and the OL affect this aspect? We will never know, but he still threw to inferior receivers in past years. Was it just a case that Moss and Welker were just too enticing to pass up?

Let's use facts, and not some delusional revisionist history. The 2009 Patriots were 1st in TOP, 3rd in Yards, and 6th in Points. So much for defenders having a "field day". The 2009 Patriots scored more points than the 2001 and 2003 teams by far. The 2009 Patriots scored 10 less than the 2004 team that consisted of the workhorse year from Corey Dillon and a better defense.

In 2009 Tom Brady posted a better QB rating, completion %, TD/INT ratio, Yardage total than any other year aside from 2007.

There is not ONE single shred of evidence that the offense played better in years where Brady spread the ball around more. The only evidence there exists is that having a RB like Corey Dillon of '04 is better for the team.

The 2003 Patriots scored 17 against the Titans and 24 against the Colts in the playoffs. The 2004 Patriots scored 20 points against the Colts and 24 against the Eagles in the playoffs. Please quit pretending that the offense is somehow hurt by having great receivers like Moss and Welker.

Tom Brady was FORCED to 'spread the ball' around against the Ravens, and that led to an atrocious outing filled with turnovers because not a single receiver other than Moss has enough talent to even get open. We -need- another receiver opposite Moss true, but the reason the offense was putrid in the playoffs was NOT because of this delusion that Brady unnecessarily "locks on" to his targets all of a sudden. It's because the talent of the WR as a whole (when missing Welker) is pitiful. Caldwell would be an upgrade to Aiken.

As for this stupid article, the NFL isn't the same today as it was in 2001 either. What kind of stupid article is this after a year in which we MADE THE PLAYOFFS. 2002 was mixed between 01/03 and we MISSED the playoffs. Teams adapt, teams grow, teams change. This is not an "end of an era", it's at most a "changing of the guard".

Or maybe Belichick has stockpiled too much cache, maybe he doesn't feel the need to keep fighting for his job or to evolve with the rest of the league, and feels like it's okay to take stunning risks (fourth-and-2 anyone?).

It certainly seemed like the Patriots were stuck in a kind of arrogantly predictable mode all year. Brady was going to look for Welker on every key pass play no matter what the defense did. Moss was going to line up wide and run deep no matter what. The defense was going to play soft with any big lead, no matter what happened earlier in the game (see the Indianapolis game). Maroney was going to keep getting the ball no matter how bad he looked or how healthy Fred Taylor or Sammy Morris became.

This guy is an absolute clueless buffoon, I'm sorry. On one hand the team is drastically different than 03-04 and on the other hand BB is stubborn and hasn't "evolved"? HUH?

He was never FIGHTING for his job, his job has always and will always be to do what is best for the team and consistent with the New England Patriots' mission statement, and he HAS done exactly that for a decade. 4th-and-2 was debated ad naseum but again it was the right friggin move. Morris is not nearly a good an overall back as Maroney, and Taylor got healthy at the last game of the season...

The run is done. It's time for the Patriots to rethink and retool.

Hey Tim, are you stupid? We just made the playoffs. 6 out of 16 teams in the AFC made the playoffs. What "run" is done?

Rethink and retool? Have you seen the roster lately? How many YOUNG guys are on the team? Does that not consist of a "retooling" over the past 3-4 years?

The defense was drastically different in 04 than in 01, but yet since we won the superbowl both years then nothing changed right? Damn ass clowns and their stupid articles.

 

[emoney_33]

Instead of addressing the "Red Sox fans" in derogatory fashion after they put fans in the seats pretty much every year, despite not having won a World Series since Babe Ruth was traded, perhaps you could stick to the situation at hand. When you have elite talent and an opportunity to win it all, you do all you can to accomplish that, and try to stay on top for as long as possible. And your insulting the "Red Sox fans" doesn't change the stark reality that not one player from the 2009 defense's back 8 would have started on the 2003 team.

Compare the last decade of Patriots seasons with any other team.

 

[Deus Irae]

If the team had found it acceptable to "compete" each season, that 2007 season wouldn't have happened. I wish more homers would take the blindfolds off and actually pay attention to what's happening instead of just being content with acting as unpaid shills. Randy Moss isn't being paid $9 million to catch passes because just competing is acceptable. The team was able to "just compete" with Reche Caldwell & company as its receiving corps.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Instead of addressing the "Red Sox fans" in derogatory fashion after they put fans in the seats pretty much every year, despite not having won a World Series since Babe Ruth was traded, perhaps you could stick to the situation at hand. When you have elite talent and an opportunity to win it all, you do all you can to accomplish that, and try to stay on top for as long as possible. And your insulting the "Red Sox fans" doesn't change the stark reality that not one player from the 2009 defense's back 8 would have started on the 2003 team.

Would anyone from the past 3 drafts who survived the cuts have started over anyone from 2003 or 2004 based on early indicatons?...I can't think of any

 

[Deus Irae]

Compare the last decade of Patriots seasons with any other team.

Why? That's just a red herring.