Patriots decline was years in the making

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I agree that we should have kept a fullback on the team. have gone after a more effective #3 receiver, and a 3rd TE. The fact is that we failed on the #3 receiver, hopeing that Lewis and Galloway would work out. After annointing Edleman in camp and in preseason, Edelman was injured twice. It is not that Belichick did not try. He tried and failed. Gaffney was NOT worth what he was charging. Edelman's prodcution was indeed as much.

Unfortunately trying and failing and doing it too many times ALWAYS leads to decline and fall of dominance...I said it yesterday and I will say it again,Belichick is human and makes mistakes and cannot read into the future but the bottom line is that he needs to make decisions that are MISTAKE-FREE this year to get back up to prominance..enough of the errors in judgment even though all moves are never guaranteed .

We must avoid errors in judgment like picking up FAs like old has beens or dumb moves in the draft anymore,we can't afford it,the league has caught up and is passing the Patriots slowly but surely - we need to keep the pace,its not going to be easy - teams have copied the Patriots way to success.

 

[mgteich]

I understand you inability to distinguish between trades and free agents, but let's accept that. You look at our acquisitions and see only failures. Perhaps you need to see Moss and Welker instead of Caldwell and Galloway. Perhaps you need to see Bodden instead of Starks. You need to see Banta-Cain and McGowan instead of Burgess and Beisel.
============
Let all judge your two positions for themselves
1) You believe that we have had 5 years of aweful production.
2) You believe that the acquisitions in trade over the past 5 years have been terrible.

How you can argue that HORRIBLE FA pickups like Thomas,Burgess,Galloway,Beisel,Brown,Starks,Caldwell ect: and the loss of some top players and BAD drafts in the past 2-4 years is not a reason for a decline? - you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

Belichick has been caught looking too far ahead the past few years throwing away potential game changing 1st rounders so he could stockpile for the next year or two - Why do this when a man named Tom Brady is heading into his mid to late 30s by the time those drafts picks develop?..IF they develop that is.

Lets face it Belichick may be a great coach and one of the best of all time but since 2006 and off the field and when he heads into the F.O. he has been far from being a good decision maker in terms of adding additions to his team (only the Moss and Welker deal would stand out). - Bad decisions or decisions that don't turn out well are why dynasties and dominance fall,it happens every decade since the NFL was born and the Patriots are almost sure to be another.

The 70s Steelers were very mediocre for most of the 80s
The 80s 49ers were mediocre for a good portion of the 90s
The 90s Cowboys were horrid for most of the 2000s

Why you think suddenly the Pats will not go into decline is of pure hope that Brady and Belichick are all that we really need....it could happen but history says we fall where the others have fallen...its only natural that you can't keep competitive and super bowl caliber teams forever and you have to grow up and realize this.

Does this mean the 2010 Patriots will be challenging for the 2011 #1 draft pick?..certainly not but I also don't expect them to be plowing through the schedule with reckless abandon either.

To sum it all up Belichick has been one helluva coach for the New England Patriots..a wheeler and dealer in the F.O. not so much..... People don't realize what a loss a talented scout like Dimitroff was who made far great suggestive college player choices than bad ones when he was here....The loss of Pioli is already hurting IMO

To think this team can make enough deals to become one of the elite teams on an NFL field again and in less than 8 months from now is purely hoping for miracles in such short of time. - IMO unless that happens and the team has a sudden fantastic offseason then my guess at this time is that the 2010 Patriots are a 8-8 to a 10-6 team heading into the fall..its a long offseason so we shall see.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree that we should have kept a fullback on the team. have gone after a more effective #3 receiver, and a 3rd TE. The fact is that we failed on the #3 receiver, hopeing that Lewis and Galloway would work out. After annointing Edleman in camp and in preseason, Edelman was injured twice. It is not that Belichick did not try. He tried and failed. Gaffney was NOT worth what he was charging. Edelman's prodcution was indeed as much.

I think most rational human beings looking back on that 2009 offense would agree that the team should have paid Gaffney what he got from Denver. My gripe has never been that they didn't bring him back. The problem was a replacement failure. They spent money and draft picks trying to replace him with inexpensive players and failed. In this team's offense, without a suitable replacement, he most definitely was worth the money, given that they paid Galloway and gave up a pick for Lewis, and ended up settling for a special teams player who's simply not up to snuff.

And I'm not a big Gaffney 'fan'.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I realize the Patriots will fade in time. But you people are goddamn idiots and need to go be Dolphin fans (Sorry for the harsh comment but this is pissing me off) if you think this team will EVER be below .500 with #12 at QB and BB as HC. If that ever happens, I'll jump off a building. The 49ers during THIS point in their run has 2 trophies. They ended up with 5. Now lucky for them, they found their Steve Young I doubt we'll be THAT lucky.

Anyway, look. This dynasty isn't in its "shiny" stage, but this run will not be over until one of the 2 pillars crumbles, and I can assure the Patriots will always be a factor until than. While they are here we're a few additions away from being a serious contender, am I wrong? I hear you people talk about this team like we're about to go 7-9

 

[Mr. Pollard]

mgteich's refrigerator is stocked with lots and lots of Kool-aid.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The reason this organization was the best of the decade was precisely the mentality that "anything less than winning the super bowl is considered unacceptable."

Actually, their mission statement is to consistently compete for championships. They know they're not going to win a Super Bowl every year, but they want to be a part of the conversation every year, and it's worth pointing out that the last time they were "playing out the string" was Week 17 of 2000.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I think most rational human beings looking back on that 2009 offense would agree that the team should have paid Gaffney what he got from Denver. My gripe has never been that they didn't bring him back. The problem was a replacement failure. They spent money and draft picks trying to replace him with inexpensive players and failed. In this team's offense, without a suitable replacement, he most definitely was worth the money, given that they paid Galloway and gave up a pick for Lewis, and ended up settling for a special teams player who's simply not up to snuff.

And I'm not a big Gaffney 'fan'.

Yes. I don't know if my wording is the same as yours, but I agree that what your saying has been Bills biggest boo boo in FA.

It's like he wants to go after all these "what if" fill ins for cheap, thinking that he if he can bring out their potential he'll get maximum value for little dollar. This has to stop. We need to stop "patching" up our needs in FA and start landing what we need. No we don't need to go crazy, we just need to find the right, proven guys. Not what ifs, none of that.

I wasn't a big Gaffney fan either, but I'd take him over signing Lewis, Galloway in a minute.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference between contract he signed in Denver and what we offered what not that huge. Given the comfort factor Brady had with him and that fact that he is a known devil and established #3, was it worth letting him go and experiment with new receivers ?

Retaining talent that we develop has never been a priority for us and I really don't know why.

I used to be pissed when I used to read from media personalities that Belichick has become extremely arrogant since his old days where he could drop any player for another and still be successful..it worked then..DOES NOT work anymore - He needs to keep his talented players and try to pay them within the boundaries of the top of the cap which may not be around in a few years,the take it or leave it approach to players is losing ground.

 

[Deus Irae]

I used to be pissed when I used to read from media personalities that Belichick has become extremely arrogant since his old days where he could drop any player for another and still be successful..it worked then..DOES NOT work anymore - He needs to keep his talented players and try to pay them within the boundaries of the top of the cap which may not be around in a few years,the take it or leave it approach to players is losing ground.

If you've got the great QB and 11 other top shelf talents, you can let a top player walk. When your QB is banged up and you're down to about 4-5 talents, you can't afford to lose any of them.

 

[FalconHeavy]

I used to be pissed when I used to read from media personalities that Belichick has become extremely arrogant since his old days where he could drop any player for another and still be successful..it worked then..DOES NOT work anymore - He needs to keep his talented players and try to pay them within the boundaries of the top of the cap which may not be around in a few years,the take it or leave it approach to players is losing ground.

We are in agreement I guess Now if only somebody can send this message to BB and the front office

 

[BionicPatriot]

Actually, their mission statement is to consistently compete for championships. They know they're not going to win a Super Bowl every year, but they want to be a part of the conversation every year.

Exactly. Are they not? They were screwed out last year, at 11-5. In ten years, with BB and Brady together the Pats missed the playoffs once, without Brady, they missed them twice on a freaking tiebreaker (both times they lost the division was over tie breakers) To say this team is not in the playoff chase year in and out is just being ridiculous.

05 - Divisional

06 - AFC ship'

07 - SB

08 - none

09 - WC

Out of five years, they were final 8 teams or better three times. So while this run hasn't produced 3 titles like 01-04, I doubt any fan in the NFL would die over that (That's more consistant than anyone but the Colts, which while they made the playoffs both years we didn't they were one and done.)

As you can see, the performance is declining. This team is like the the old Chevy that jsut needs a serious tune up to tear up some street again. If we can make additions to most of, it not all : C, RG, RT? DE, OLB, MLB, WR than this team is again top 4 at the worst.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick picked up fine free agents in Bodden, Baker, Taylor, McGowan and Banta-Cain.

I agree that it order for the team to do better this year, he will likely need to do at least as well as finding 5 contributers.

Unfortunately trying and failing and doing it too many times ALWAYS leads to decline and fall of dominance...I said it yesterday and I will say it again,Belichick is human and makes mistakes and cannot read into the future but the bottom line is that he needs to make decisions that are MISTAKE-FREE this year to get back up to prominance..enough of the errors in judgment even though all moves are never guaranteed .

We must avoid errors in judgment like picking up FAs like old has beens or dumb moves in the draft anymore,we can't afford it,the league has caught up and is passing the Patriots slowly but surely - we need to keep the pace,its not going to be easy - teams have copied the Patriots way to success.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I understand you inability to distinguish between trades and free agents, but let's accept that. You look at our acquisitions and see only failures. Perhaps you need to see Moss and Welker instead of Caldwell and Galloway. Perhaps you need to see Bodden instead of Starks. You need to see Banta-Cain and McGowan instead of Burgess and Beisel.
============
Let all judge your two positions for themselves
1) You believe that we have had 5 years of aweful production.
2) You believe that the acquisitions in trade over the past 5 years have been terrible.

Last time I looked McGowan played well FOR A PORTION of the season,otherwise James Sanders would still be sitting on the bench - McGowan was decent but not worthy of mentioning as successful otherwise he would never have seen the pine.

Banta-Cain should never have been let go in the first place,that was another Belichick error,Banta Cain was coming into his own when the Pats let him go to SF and they were lucky to be able to get him back and apparently right now he is no sure bet to stick around in 2010.

Randy moss was a good addition but he goes into hibernation in ALL 4 playoff games for the Patriots..great WRs find a way to become factors in big time games..

Randy is a great regular season asset but don't trust him in do or die games,You can say teams blanketed him for excuses, but teams also blanketed Jerry Rice in his day but still he found a way to get the job done,Randy has been a decoy in the playoffs,nothing more.

Both FAs,most draft selections and trade pickups have been failures the past few years with some exceptions like Gostkowski,perhaps Mayo and Meriweather and taking Cain back when he should not have left in the first place..but the failures have outweighed the exceptions lately and Belichick has not been anywhere near good in the office as he has been on the field.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Belichick picked up fine free agents in Bodden, Baker, Taylor, McGowan and Banta-Cain.

I agree that it order for the team to do better this year, he will likely need to do at least as well as finding 5 contributers.

You think Baker was a fine pick up?...really?

 

[RobertWeathers]

You think Baker was a fine pick up?...really?

Why do you think he was a poor one? The guy was rarely ever thrown the ball. As a whole, his contributions were average at best, but not terrible (terrible was Galloway).

We all knew he wasn't going to be a marquee- TE.

 

[Ryan]

The 80s 49ers were mediocre for a good portion of the 90s

No, they weren't.

14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6, 13-3, 11-5, 12-4, 13-3, 12-4, 4-12

Aside from the 4-12 year when Young was taken out and the dynasty officially ended, the Niners were a great team year in and year out. 8 playoff appearances, 5 trips to the NFC Championship game, and 1 Super Bowl championship. If the Cowboys weren't so great they would've had more.

They carried over their greatness from the 80's for 9 full years into the next decade. It's not impossible that the Patriots could do the same thing. I think it's just a matter of reloading the roster and getting Brady healed up.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, they weren't.

14-2, 10-6, 14-2, 10-6, 13-3, 11-5, 12-4, 13-3, 12-4, 4-12

Aside from the 4-12 year when Young was taken out and the dynasty officially ended, the Niners were a great team year in and year out. 8 playoff appearances, 5 trips to the NFC Championship game, and 1 Super Bowl championship. If the Cowboys weren't so great they would've had more.

They carried over their greatness from the 80's for 9 full years into the next decade. It's not impossible that the Patriots could do the same thing. I think it's just a matter of reloading the roster and getting Brady healed up.

Until the Patriots find their Steve Young, don't get your hopes up.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Why do you think he was a poor one? The guy was rarely ever thrown the ball. As a whole, his contributions were average at best, but not terrible (terrible was Galloway).

We all knew he wasn't going to be a marquee- TE.

We need a TE who can do it all...we haven't had one of those since Coates left.

 

[Ryan]

Until the Patriots find their Steve Young, don't get your hopes up.

Yeah I'm already sick of reading that line.

Who's to say that Tom Brady can't be Steve Young? It's amazing how fast some of you have written him off.....

 

[wilfork is beastin']

When Brady does retire/leave, who's to say the Patriots won't have a suitable replacement set up? No one thought Cassel would do anything in the NFL, so for all we know Hoyer could have a great future with the team.