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Patriots decline was years in the making

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, Jan 14, 2010.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Concord Monitor - Decline was years in the making

    If I had to write an article of why the Patriots domination is starting to have big chinks in the armor,this article would pretty much sum it all up..very well written although its something we are not happy to agree with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  2. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I agree with all of it. The "value" Patriots are dead. Either they pull out the wallet and spend some money or things will only get worse. Charlie and Romeo would have been great here, but like all of the Patriots defections "value" over rides everything. Lets use our first 4 picks in the draft and fill some holes in this team. Trading them out to next year has caught up with us.
     
  3. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) Anyone who thinks that the 2007 season was part of long spiral downward is an idiot. We we were one crazy play away from being one the consensus top three or four teams of all time.

    2) Anyone who whines and moans about being 11-5 without Brady in 2008 is a moron and/or a mediot.

    and finally,

    3) Anyone who considers a division winning season an aweful result of a long decline in the making shouldn't be paid for writing sports columns or should be a beat writer for a paper in Detroit instead of New England.

    just my 2 vents and 2 cents
     
  4. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

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    Great read. Athough I'm sure some people on this board will say this article exemplifies the "spoiled fan" syndrome, I think the vast majority of us would agree with it. It's ironic to think that the 2007 season really illustrates a lot of the reasons why the Pats are where they are today, i.e. needing a major "re-assessment."
     
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed. We won 10 freakin' games this season and won the division, and idiots like this think it's time for an obituary.
     
  6. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Posters like you deserved a 6-10 rebuilding season in 2007 and in 2009. Personally, I rather appreciated that Kraft and Belichick felt differently and traded for Moss and Welker.

     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  7. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    bingo we have bingo. why people seek out crap from sports writers is beyond me.
     
  8. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why some Pats fans (and writers) seem to want to act like JEST fans (and writers) is beyond me.
     
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The seeds of destruction are often the same seeds that bring great success. For all of its greatness, 2007 was the first time in the 'dynasty' run that a quality Patriots team used the team's offense to cover up defensive question marks. It also began the transition from "my favorite receiver is the open receiver" to "Brady locks on to Moss and Welker". I'm thrilled to have Moss and Welker on the team, but let's not pretend that it hasn't has some problematic side effects.
     
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure there were problem side effects. The 2001-2004 patriots weren't perfect either. You prefer the resource emphasis on the defense rather than the offense. You prefer for the start to be defesive players and a Qb working with a rag-tag set of players. I get it. But both the 2004 and the 2007 teams were great teams.

    And just BTW, did the 2004 team have the seeds of destruction that kept us from getting to Super Bowl for the next five years?

     
  11. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    How you can argue that HORRIBLE FA pickups like Thomas,Burgess,Galloway,Beisel,Brown,Starks,Caldwell ect: and the loss of some top players and BAD drafts in the past 2-4 years is not a reason for a decline? - you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

    Belichick has been caught looking too far ahead the past few years throwing away potential game changing 1st rounders so he could stockpile for the next year or two - Why do this when a man named Tom Brady is heading into his mid to late 30s by the time those drafts picks develop?..IF they develop that is.

    Lets face it Belichick may be a great coach and one of the best of all time but since 2006 and off the field and when he heads into the F.O. he has been far from being a good decision maker in terms of adding additions to his team (only the Moss and Welker deal would stand out). - Bad decisions or decisions that don't turn out well are why dynasties and dominance fall,it happens every decade since the NFL was born and the Patriots are almost sure to be another.

    The 70s Steelers were very mediocre for most of the 80s
    The 80s 49ers were mediocre for a good portion of the 90s
    The 90s Cowboys were horrid for most of the 2000s

    Why you think suddenly the Pats will not go into decline is of pure hope that Brady and Belichick are all that we really need....it could happen but history says we fall where the others have fallen...its only natural that you can't keep competitive and super bowl caliber teams forever and you have to grow up and realize this.

    Does this mean the 2010 Patriots will be challenging for the 2011 #1 draft pick?..certainly not but I also don't expect them to be plowing through the schedule with reckless abandon either.

    To sum it all up Belichick has been one helluva coach for the New England Patriots..a wheeler and dealer in the F.O. not so much..... People don't realize what a loss a talented scout like Dimitroff was who made far great suggestive college player choices than bad ones when he was here....The loss of Pioli is already hurting IMO

    To think this team can make enough deals to become one of the elite teams on an NFL field again and in less than 8 months from now is purely hoping for miracles in such short of time. - IMO unless that happens and the team has a sudden fantastic offseason then my guess at this time is that the 2010 Patriots are a 8-8 to a 10-6 team heading into the fall..its a long offseason so we shall see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  12. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    While the wider perspective is appreciated we're not talking about side effects or double edges. This current of thought believes the Patriots have been shown to be rotten at the core.
     
  13. tbrown

    tbrown Rookie

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    Bingo. This has been discussed before, but I don't think enough. If we can see who Brady is going to throw to on a TV, then defenders will have a field day.
    Third, fourth and fifth options were scarce, but how much did his injuries, the play calling, and the OL affect this aspect? We will never know, but he still threw to inferior receivers in past years. Was it just a case that Moss and Welker were just too enticing to pass up?
     
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) Actually, while I do have a preference for defense over offense, it's not something that keeps me awake at night. Both can win as the lead 'side' on the field.

    2.) I prefer for the start to be what works for a particular group. I love Moss/Welker, as you well know. However, Moss/Welker has led to $9 million dollars being tied up in one receiver while the team's WR3 left for greener pastures in Denver, to the fullback position being completely eliminated and then reconstituted as an offensive lineman trying (and often failing) to block for the halfback, and to the running game being treated like it's the ugly step-child.

    3.) The 2001-2006 teams were built upon successful free agent hits and a lot of players from a previous coaching administration that had emphasized different positions in drafting, along with some very fortuitous drafting occurrences. If you can't see where the seeds of destruction are in a plan like that, I really don't know what to tell you, because they're quite apparent. We saw an example in 2005.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  15. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    How does this fit in with the rest of your post?
     
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know, and it's the typical overreaction to a bad situation, even if that situation isn't all that bad. The same people looking for bridges to jump off today would still be lording it over every human being on the planet if the last 3 minutes of the 2007 NFL season had ended differently. But, that's human nature.

    The reality is that the main reason for this team's 'decline' is pretty easy to see. It's not style (although there does seem to be a mental 'softness' that accompanies this sort of passing team). It's talent drain. Last night, while posting on another site, I made the point that not a single player in this 2009 team's back 8 would have started for the 2003 team, and that the only possible change to that with the 2004 team would be Bodden starting over Gay. You then toss in the huge drop from Seymour to his replacement, and you're looking at about 9 of 11 positions that were superior for the 2003-2004 seasons.

    Failed free agent signings, injuries, poor trades, lack of elite players in the draft.... that's why the team is declining. Let's just hope that Belichick can turn things around. The league is set up so that this happens to teams on top. Belichick and Polian have been the only people able to buck this tide during this decade, although one could argue for Pittsburgh in that mix as well, and they both had an edge that others didn't. Both were using systems that used unconventional defensive players who would not fit in the systems of others.

    The question now is whether or not Belichick can once again begin to bring in the right players to keep it going, especially when the 3-4 is no longer a rarity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  17. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

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    :confused: I don't get your point. People like me "deserve" a couple of 6-10 seasons, exactly why again?

    All of you "we won 10 frickin games this year!" crowd need to buy a clue. The reason this organization was the best of the decade was precisely the mentality that "anything less than winning the super bowl is considered unacceptable." Let me make it very simple for you: the point of the article is the Pats organizational philosophy may not be the same as it was at the beginning of the decade. Losing appears to be more acceptable as long as you make sound business decisions, consider "value" first and foremost, and keep stockpiling draft picks for its long term future.
     
  18. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Because people like Mgteich are thinking that the Patriots will be competitive forever or at least as long as Brady and Belichick are running the show..I don't swallow that theory,The other 99.9% of the team needs to be playing at a high level as well ..2 guys don't and can't carry a team and if we didn't see that this year then I don't know what to say.

    The bottom line is its pure stupid and moronic to say that as long as we have Brady and Belichick this team will be in the hunt..Brady plays one position and Belichick coaches plays in,he does not carry them out on the field...the old days had all players on one page with one goal and had a hell of a lot more talent to carry out Belichick's schemes.

    Take Brady,Belichick,Wilfork,Faulk and Welker away and could you really put many more players on this list whose mindset are on a direct path to success where winning is everything and playing is for more than just money?..I can't select too many more from the current team than those guys.

    I long for the days when a Patriots team was LOADED with guys that not only wanted to make a lot of money to play football but also wanted to have fun while doing it to the best of thier ability and to have the drive and desire to earn a ring and to be known as a CHAMPION..Can you really say the majority of our 2009 roster had these types of guys on it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that we should have kept a fullback on the team. have gone after a more effective #3 receiver, and a 3rd TE. The fact is that we failed on the #3 receiver, hopeing that Lewis and Galloway would work out. After annointing Edleman in camp and in preseason, Edelman was injured twice. It is not that Belichick did not try. He tried and failed. Gaffney was NOT worth what he was charging. Edelman's prodcution was indeed as much.

     
  20. parthasas

    parthasas Patriots Nation PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference between contract he signed in Denver and what we offered what not that huge. Given the comfort factor Brady had with him and that fact that he is a known devil and established #3, was it worth letting him go and experiment with new receivers ? The amount of scrubs that brady had to work with barring Moss, Welker is mind boggling.

    Retaining talent that we develop has never been a priority for us and I really don't know why.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
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