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Our Seven Linebackers (with 1-3 open spots)


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It is quite possible that Belichick considers Ninkovich/Cunnningham a better option than Burgess.

uh...... We don't have LB named Ninkovich/Cunnningham Mgteich.

Ninkovich will need to earn a spot like anyone with his very limited resume who is transitioning. Cunningham was brought here to win a job and hopefully will when he's ready.
 
Updated prefered depth chart:

TBC - Spikes - Mayo - Burgess
Crable - McK - Guyton - Cunningham
Ninko - Murrell - Davis

Woods - Alexander - Williams - Fletcher; all = TC fodder
 
Why not? You could say the same thing about TBC. Who are our pass rushing OLBs in the base defense, assuming woods hasn't shown that ability?

TBC plays OLB in the 34, Burgess does not.
You could say Brady can play OLB but he cant either.
We don't have 'pass rushing OLBs in the base'. We have OLBs.
In the sub package we move to a 4 man line and use the same guys that play 34 DL inside and some of the same guys that play 34 OLB at DE. That is what Burgess plays.
In an emergency, if he had to play in the base, he would line up at OLB but he isn't suited to play it unless there is an emergency.
Its what the guy is, why does that bother you?
 
TBC plays OLB in the 34, Burgess does not.
You could say Brady can play OLB but he cant either.
We don't have 'pass rushing OLBs in the base'. We have OLBs.
In the sub package we move to a 4 man line and use the same guys that play 34 DL inside and some of the same guys that play 34 OLB at DE. That is what Burgess plays.
In an emergency, if he had to play in the base, he would line up at OLB but he isn't suited to play it unless there is an emergency.
Its what the guy is, why does that bother you?

TBC was let go (not offered a contract) because he couldn't play OLB in the 3-4. He's a DE to OLB conversion the same as every player we have that might play OLB.

There are no players on the Patriots who played 3-4 OLB on their former college or pro team.
 
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TBC was let go (not offered a contract) because he couldn't play OLB in the 3-4. He's a DE to OLB conversion the same as every player we have that might play OLB.

There are no players on the Patriots who played 3-4 OLB on their former college or pro team.

I am talking about what they can do. TBC has been an OLB since we drafted him 6-7 years ago. He was an OLB in SF.
Yes, our system requires very large OLBs. All players that are large enough to be OLBs in our system are playing DE in college. You imply that we take other NFL DEs and convert them to OLB? When?
Phifer
Vrabel
Colvin
Thomas
are the examples that I can think of brought in from other teams and all of them were LBs on their other teams too (TBC played 34 olb in SF too btw)

So, yes, their is a 'conversion' for college players, simply because a player that fits the size requirements of our OLB doesnt exist as an OLB in college.
This idea that we take career 43 DEs and convert them is silly, and really only based on fans on this board hoping we do every time someone like Peppers is available and they want us to sign and misuse them.

Is there a list of NFL DEs that we coverted to OLBs that I'm missing out on?
 
TBC was let go (not offered a contract) because he couldn't play OLB in the 3-4. He's a DE to OLB conversion the same as every player we have that might play OLB.

There are no players on the Patriots who played 3-4 OLB on their former college or pro team.

BTW, TBC wasn't let go, that is very different than being signed away for large $$ because he couldn't play OLB, in fact his last games here he was the starter due to injury and he signed a large contract to be an OLB in SF.
You are either 100% misinformed or making that up.
 
BTW, TBC wasn't let go, that is very different than being signed away for large $$ because he couldn't play OLB, in fact his last games here he was the starter due to injury and he signed a large contract to be an OLB in SF.
You are either 100% misinformed or making that up.

TBC was benched in a playoff game and we started a scrub special teamer at ILB so we could move Vrabel to his position because Tomlinson was leaving cleat markson his face.

TBC is too short for the position, as is Nincovich. Yet they are ideal for OLB, while Burgess, who is exactly as tall, can't possibly ever play OLB, even though that is our base defense.

If you want to say all these unproven OLBs are naturals, while the identical size player with more experience has some deformity preventing him from ever playing in our base defense, that's fine.

By the way, who was our previous 260 DE before Burgess, since we seem to have a position for a defensive end who cannot possibly ever play in our base defense, which requires 300 lb DE types.
 
And now there are nine for folks to try to beat out.

Banta-Cain, Woods, Burgess, Ninkovich, Cunningham
Mayo, Spikes, Guyton, McKenzie
 
I keep at least 8, if not all 9 on my roster.
 
To me you cant make a stab at who will play Lb without considering who will play Dline, If the pats go back to a more 3-4 look consistantly or do they continue the progression to more 4-3 alignments?

TBC and Burgess can play with a hand in the dirt. Cunningham can but IMO bb will only feed him 3-4 olb responsibilities.

IMO Guyton is a OLB in a 3-4 set

Spikes, Mckensie and Mayo will man the middle, I see Mayo playing some OLB in some disguised coverages

I think the base 3-4 will look like if BB has his way

Warren-Wilfork-Warren
Crable-Mayo-Spikes-Banta-Cain

With a 4-3 look of

Burgess-Brace-Wright-Price (the Brace position being my pipe dream)
Mayo-Spikes-Guyton

This leaves Cunningham and Mckensie as the two B/U

Woods is let go if Crable makes it through camp.
 
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And now there are nine for folks to try to beat out.

Banta-Cain, Woods, Burgess, Ninkovich, Cunningham
Mayo, Spikes, Guyton, McKenzie
Don't sleep on #98
 
I'd be happy enough if #98 won a roster spot. I just think that he is on the outsiide looking in at the moment.

Don't sleep on #98
 
Mike Reiss May 14
Burgess played approximately 57 percent of the Patriots’ defensive snaps in 2009, in a variety of roles in the team's multiple system.

He was used as a nickel rusher early in the season. He later played some 3-4 outside linebacker. Against the Bills in December, he put his hand on the ground and played defensive end on early downs in a three-man front...
As for the Patriots' current depth chart at outside linebacker, Tully Banta-Cain appears to be one starter, but there is a question who will line up on the opposite side. Second-round draft choice Jermaine Cunningham of Florida, 2008 third-round draft choice Shawn Crable (0 career regular-season games) and five-year veterans Rob Ninkovich and Pierre Woods are also in the mix, although Ninkovich and Woods have been mostly special teams contributors to this point of their careers.

Burgess provides veteran presence - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
 
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TBC was benched in a playoff game and we started a scrub special teamer at ILB so we could move Vrabel to his position because Tomlinson was leaving cleat markson his face.

TBC is too short for the position, as is Nincovich. Yet they are ideal for OLB, while Burgess, who is exactly as tall, can't possibly ever play OLB, even though that is our base defense.

If you want to say all these unproven OLBs are naturals, while the identical size player with more experience has some deformity preventing him from ever playing in our base defense, that's fine.

By the way, who was our previous 260 DE before Burgess, since we seem to have a position for a defensive end who cannot possibly ever play in our base defense, which requires 300 lb DE types.

Again, you are inserting your opinion as fact. TBC didn't play in that game because we wanted a better coverage LB on the field, so we put Alexander in to cover, and moved Vrabel to OLB. IT was

I don't know why you are limiting your argument to height and weight. There is a lot more that goes into a players ability to play a position than what their height and weight are.
We have not have a 260lb DE before nor have we had a guy at LB with no LB skills.
Burgess is a unique player on our roster. He is a specialist who can rush the passer from the sub packages. That is half of the job of guys who are on our team as OLBs. He is not capable of doing the other half of the job, not by a longshot.
If you must identify a position for him in the 34, its OLB.
It IS possible to play him there, but it creates issues.
First, it would force us to make him the 4th rusher on every play he is in. He can't be in coverage. Ideally, we like to split the job of 4th rusher equally between both OLBs in the base....one will rush on every down if its a pass. But we prefer to use both interchangeably.
Secondly, Burgess is horrendous at playing run duties as a 34 OLB. I recognize BB made positive comments about his run D, but that was as a nickel DE, which is night and day different from 34 OLB.

Your argument seems to be he has the height and weight of an OLB, and since he can't play any other position in the 34 that makes him our starting OLB. The fact is he can't really play that position either. If forced to put him out there, thats his best spot. That doesn't mean he is good enough at it to be out there.

An example would be teams that use huge blocking FBs who can do nothing else. Thats 50% of the snaps in the I that they play, but when you go to 1 back, spread, your argument would tell me the guy is a TE or RB or something, because his spot (for Burgess thats DE in a 4 man front) doesn't exist.

If what you are saying is that if we were down to 11 defensive players and had to pick a place in the 34 for Burgess, its OLB, I agree. If what you are saying is that Burgess is anywhere but the last man on the depth chart to play there in a real game (but for unique situations where he is basically a standing DE in a specialized scheme and call) you are ignoring that in addition to having the proper height and weight you need the skillset for the position.
 
To me you cant make a stab at who will play Lb without considering who will play Dline, If the pats go back to a more 3-4 look consistantly or do they continue the progression to more 4-3 alignments?

TBC and Burgess can play with a hand in the dirt. Cunningham can but IMO bb will only feed him 3-4 olb responsibilities.

IMO Guyton is a OLB in a 3-4 set

Spikes, Mckensie and Mayo will man the middle, I see Mayo playing some OLB in some disguised coverages

I think the base 3-4 will look like if BB has his way

Warren-Wilfork-Warren
Crable-Mayo-Spikes-Banta-Cain

With a 4-3 look of

Burgess-Brace-Wright-Price (the Brace position being my pipe dream)
Mayo-Spikes-Guyton

This leaves Cunningham and Mckensie as the two B/U

Woods is let go if Crable makes it through camp.

Who is Price? Why would you bench our 2 best DL in a 43? Why would you bench TBC in a 43?

Also, there has not been a progression toward a 4-3 to continue. We are a 34 team, were last year, will be this year, and sometimes we mix in 43 but not too often.
 
If what you are saying is that Burgess is anywhere but the last man on the depth chart to play there in a real game (but for unique situations where he is basically a standing DE in a specialized scheme and call) you are ignoring that in addition to having the proper height and weight you need the skillset for the position.

I am not saying anything of the kind.

They have no proven OLBs of the Caliber they used to have, All I'm saying is Burgess could get some minutes at OLB.

Since Reiss, who measures the amount of snaps for every player, says he already has, then I am right in the very modest and limited statement I was making.

According to Reiss,

Mike Reiss May 14


He was used as a nickel rusher early in the season. He later played some 3-4 outside linebacker. Against the Bills in December, he put his hand on the ground and played defensive end on early downs in a three-man front...
 
Again, you are inserting your opinion as fact. TBC didn't play in that game because we wanted a better coverage LB on the field, so we put Alexander in to cover, and moved Vrabel to OLB. IT was

So you're saying TBC did a good job of setting the edge against San Diego, previous to his benching in favor of the outstanding Eric Alexander?

That would indicate his ability to play OLB, as opposed to just a DE like he was in college.
 
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So you're saying TBC did a good job of setting the edge against San Diego, previous to his benching in favor of the outstanding Eric Alexander?

That would indicate his ability to play OLB, as opposed to just a DE like he was in college.

His run D vs Sd was not the reason he didnt play that game and yes, he did a very good job at OLB, which is why SF paid him big money.
 
I am not saying anything of the kind.

They have no proven OLBs of the Caliber they used to have, All I'm saying is Burgess could get some minutes at OLB.

Since Reiss, who measures the amount of snaps for every player, says he already has, then I am right in the very modest and limited statement I was making.

According to Reiss,

I'll have to look back but I wasn't under the impression your argument was he might play a few snaps there, but that he would play A LOT.
Reiss comments simply indicate the special circumtances, and the end of the bench snaps I mentioned, not any more.
 
I'll have to look back but I wasn't under the impression your argument was he might play a few snaps there, but that he would play A LOT.
Reiss comments simply indicate the special circumtances, and the end of the bench snaps I mentioned, not any more.

Actually, you responded to someone else and my "why not" was referring to the fact that we don't have outside linebackers like McGoo Vrabel and Colvin, so why think non entities like Ninchovich etc. are locks and Burgess couldn't be considered for some snaps at the position.

I guess my basic position is, if TBC has actually improved against the run, that's one, who else do we have? Cunningham has obviously a ways to go and Ninchovich has all of 17 career tackles and one sack.

A lot of teams go no huddle too, if they know your players have no versatility.

It's relative.

We've got two 4-3 tackles we're counting on to play 3-4 end too.
 
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