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Our Seven Linebackers (with 1-3 open spots)


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Cunningham or Ninkovich or Crable

Yeah Crable has definitely shown more than Burgess in his career.:rolleyes: I've been one to say let's hope he's being kept around for something, but he's a ghost.

None of those names has proven anything in the NFL. Obviously, we would love them to turn into McGinest, Vrabel and Colvin overnight, but they're just names on a list now.

Burgess has been around and could learn the position quicker than a rookie and be a decent transition guy. Since when do you worry about sub package ends stopping the run or playing every down? How does a limited player like that even play every down in a 3-4 base? Don't take my word for it.

Q: How has Derrick Burgess been coming along?

BB: Derrick has done a good job for us all year. He really has. He's been productive both in the passing game and in the running game. I think overall his run play has been good. He's a very consistent player. There are some players that rush the passer and they kind of rush the passer on every play and that's great on the passes, but then sometimes that can hurt you in the running game. Derrick really plays consistently on everything and he's done an excellent job in the running game for us - probably as good as we've had as a run player and a pass rusher. When they run the ball, he does a good job. When they throw the ball, he's competitive on the pass rush. I think sometimes guys lean a little more towards one than the other, but I'd say overall his play has been consistent on a down-after-down basis at a position that everybody kind of focuses on the passing part of it. But he's been in there on a lot of running plays and he's done a good job on the draws, the screens, the sub runs. He's made a number of plays for us on that. I think he's had - right from the beginning, going all the way back to the Buffalo game - he's had a good, solid year.

Q: Is it fair to say you got what you wanted out of him?

BB: He's definitely what we needed as an edge player. He's given us that. He's done a good job for us. It's different than Tully [Banta-Cain], but both Tully and Derrick have given us very good play on the perimeter of the defense.

Q: As an older player, at any point earlier in the year, did you think about limiting his snaps?

BB: I think we felt that he could play every down because he's done that throughout his career and he did it last year in Oakland. As you know, in games this year, there were some games where he has played almost every down, like last week, like the first Buffalo game. And then there were other games that his plays were less than that. And of course, then that flips for other players. Other players play more while ... You can only have 11 in there at a time. I think he can do it. I think it just comes down to game planning, matchups and sometimes how the game unfolds. But I think he's definitely capable of doing that. I don't know if would really consider him an older player. He's no rookie, I'm not saying that, but I think this guy has got some football left.
 
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Yeah Crable has definitely shown more than Burgess in his career.:rolleyes: I've been one to say let's hope he's being kept around for something, but he's a ghost.

None of those names has proven anything in the NFL. Obviously, we would love them to turn into McGinest, Vrabel and Colvin overnight, but they're just names on a list now.

Burgess has been around and could learn the position quicker than a rookie and be a decent transition guy. Since when do you worry about sub package ends stopping the run or playing every down? How does a limited player like that even play every down in a 3-4 base? Don't take my word for it.

Even if Crable shows he's a complete OLB he will get broken again and be on IR by week 2.

Day 1 starting OLB's will probably be TBC and Ninkovich. If they pick up Ellis I think he would leapfrog Ninkovich as a day 1 starter. Let's just hope Cunningham is a quick learner.
 
Even if Crable shows he's a complete OLB he will get broken again and be on IR by week 2.

Day 1 starting OLB's will probably be TBC and Ninkovich. If they pick up Ellis I think he would leapfrog Ninkovich as a day 1 starter. Let's just hope Cunningham is a quick learner.

I don't see that as a strong starting corps? When did Ninkovich go from a scrub to a sure thing, anyway? I'm not putting him down, but he's a pleasant surprise who's proven nothing in the NFL yet and is still transitioning from DE, which makes him the same as Burgess, minus the experience, double digit sack years and Pro Bowls.

I'm not Burgess's Press agent, but we certainly have the tendency to take unknowns with a few games where they didn't bump into their own team mates and start measuring them for a Hall of fame suit.

Everyone except TBC and Woods are complete unknowns as OLBs and they are both one dimensional until proven otherwise. I'm real optimistic about Cunningham, but I believe my assessment of the current situation is realistic, as opposed to wishful thinking.
 
I don't see that as a strong starting corps? When did Ninkovich go from a scrub to a sure thing, anyway? I'm not putting him down, but he's a pleasant surprise who's proven nothing in the NFL yet and is still transitioning from DE, which makes him the same as Burgess, minus the experience, double digit sack years and Pro Bowls.

I'm not Burgess's Press agent, but we certainly have the tendency to take unknowns with a few games where they didn't bump into their own team mates and start measuring them for a Hall of fame suit.

Everyone except TBC and Woods are complete unknowns as OLBs and they are both one dimensional until proven otherwise. I'm real optimistic about Cunningham, but I believe my assessment of the current situation is realistic, as opposed to wishful thinking.

I don't see them as a strong starting corps either.

Ninkovich is a rotational caliber player at best. In my opinion He has a better overall game than burgess at this point in his career. I would like to see them
bring in Greg Ellis who would be an upgrade over Ninkovhich or burgess.

I'm high on Cunningham, he has a great initial burst and has a really high upside and could be very good in the future. But he is a rookie DE who will most likely be converting to an OLB, so it will take time (he could probably do with adding a little bit of strength as well).
 
I may have missed a few posts along the way. But Why has Brian Davis been left out of the discussion concerning OLB/rush linebacker.
My research going back to his days with UCLA indicates He has some talent.
He was resigned according to some sources, to replace Burgess.
Based on what little I know about this kid, He has as much potential as many of the young players that came out this year, plus a couple years of getting coached up in the pro's. Not saying He is the answer, but He has been left out of the discussion. Any reason for that?
Scout.com: Bruce Davis Profile
 
I may have missed a few posts along the way. But Why has Brian Davis been left out of the discussion concerning OLB/rush linebacker.
My research going back to his days with UCLA indicates He has some talent.
He was resigned according to some sources, to replace Burgess.
Based on what little I know about this kid, He has as much potential as many of the young players that came out this year, plus a couple years of getting coached up in the pro's. Not saying He is the answer, but He has been left out of the discussion. Any reason for that?
Scout.com: Bruce Davis Profile

Probably because he is a completely unknown quality, the fact that Pitt cut a 3rd rounder after just one year doesn't bode well either.

His 2008 draft profile from FFToolbox

2008 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
person
Bruce Davis, DE, UCLA
Davis is a hybrid 3-4 outside linebacker or 4-3 defensive end. He does not have great size at 240 pounds, but plays with a great motor. Davis is at his best when he is able to pin his ears back and rush the passer. He has a tendency to get stonewalled by mammoth defensive tackles, but could benefit greatly from being moved around in the right defensive scheme. Davis is lightning quick and can beat most tackles with his first step. If he is playing against a tackle without sound footwork, he will harass the quarterback all day. He does play too high at times and can get stalemated when this happens. He moves very well laterally, which NFL coaches look for in a "tweener" prospect who may have to drop back into coverage. Davis struggles when teams pound the ball at him and he lacks ideal closing speed, but there's a lot to like about his upside. Davis finished the season with 45 tackles (15.5 for a loss) and 12 sacks in 13 games. He has the athletic ability to develop into a productive pass rusher in any scheme and the tenacity to develop into an every-down outside linebacker in a 3-4-scheme. Davis disappeared a little bit at Senior Bowl practice. This may be because of all of the talent around him, or due to a position change as he is no longer playing with his hand on the ground. Davis will flourish if put in the right system. Davis had a good combine running a 4.72 forty yard dash, but weighed in at just 252 pounds. Davis will be a project player and will likely take a few seasons to grow into a starting outside linebacker in the NFL. Davis is the type of player that Bill Belichick has molded into an All-Pro. He is a high motor player that won't quit on a play and will likely contribute for many years in the NFL.

SSDD
 
As of now, we are replacing two players who each played over 50% of the defensive reps.

I agree that expecting Ninkovich to go from 20% to over 70% (picking up the reps of Burgess) is unreasonable. There is no reason to believe that Ninkovich is up to this.

Do you really think that Woods is up to taking a major role?

I agree that bringing back Burgess would help. We would then have Ninkovich and Cunningham with more reps in place of Thomas.

I don't see that as a strong starting corps? When did Ninkovich go from a scrub to a sure thing, anyway? I'm not putting him down, but he's a pleasant surprise who's proven nothing in the NFL yet and is still transitioning from DE, which makes him the same as Burgess, minus the experience, double digit sack years and Pro Bowls.

I'm not Burgess's Press agent, but we certainly have the tendency to take unknowns with a few games where they didn't bump into their own team mates and start measuring them for a Hall of fame suit.

Everyone except TBC and Woods are complete unknowns as OLBs and they are both one dimensional until proven otherwise. I'm real optimistic about Cunningham, but I believe my assessment of the current situation is realistic, as opposed to wishful thinking.
 
Burgess is not on the team. As of now, we are discussing what we have.

Yeah Crable has definitely shown more than Burgess in his career.
 
actually, mckenzine,woods, and cunningham are the 8th,9th, and 10th LB's

TBC and spikes are (or should be) part of the 5th, 6th, and 7th LB's

the pats have only 2 starting caliber LB's on the team and they are both inside.
 
I don't see them as a strong starting corps either.

Ninkovich is a rotational caliber player at best. In my opinion He has a better overall game than burgess at this point in his career. I would like to see them
bring in Greg Ellis who would be an upgrade over Ninkovhich or burgess.

I'm high on Cunningham, he has a great initial burst and has a really high upside and could be very good in the future. But he is a rookie DE who will most likely be converting to an OLB, so it will take time (he could probably do with adding a little bit of strength as well).


Why would Greg Ellis be an improvement at this point? He's old, and he doesn't even want to play in a 3-4. I think the best thing that Pats fans can hope/wish for, is that Cunningham will come out and give you an unexpected great rookie season (since he is really the only unknown at this point). I don't really think anyone on the roster or any potential cuts are really going to make the OLB corp any better then it currently is.
 
Burgess is not on the team. As of now, we are discussing what we have.

Yeah Crable has definitely shown more than Burgess in his career.

Well, they aren't civil servants, so players with experience in the system, or unknowns that have been acquired have as much chance as most of those you posted IMO. Unless Burgess signs elsewhere, he could be on the team in five minutes.

I'd only list TBC Woods and Cunningham as having roster spots, and I'm not sure of all of them
 
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On Guyton and McKenzie playing OLB: they both are going to get plenty of reps there. Just not in the 34. When they go 43, Guyton is going to be the Will and McKenzie is going to be the Sam. So while they don't wit the 34, they are both damn good fits as OLB's in the 43.
 
You are certainly free to believe that both Ninkovich and Crable would be better in 2010 than Ellis.

Why would Greg Ellis be an improvement at this point? He's old, and he doesn't even want to play in a 3-4. I think the best thing that Pats fans can hope/wish for, is that Cunningham will come out and give you an unexpected great rookie season (since he is really the only unknown at this point). I don't really think anyone on the roster or any potential cuts are really going to make the OLB corp any better then it currently is.
 
On Guyton and McKenzie playing OLB: they both are going to get plenty of reps there. Just not in the 34. When they go 43, Guyton is going to be the Will and McKenzie is going to be the Sam. So while they don't wit the 34, they are both damn good fits as OLB's in the 43.

If they go to the 4-3 whose is on the DL ? RDE Warren, DTs Wilfork Lewis LDE Banta-Cain ? I love Ty Warren but he's not a great pass rusher. To me this doesn't fix the problem it just moves it from OLB to DE.
 
We have two players gone. Both Thomas and Burgess played over 50% of the defensive reps.

As of now, I would expect Ninkovich or Cunningham to be the RDE in the 4-3, replacing Burgess. Of course, Burgess himself could be competing for this role if he is signed.

If they go to the 4-3 whose is on the DL ? RDE Warren, DTs Wilfork Lewis LDE Banta-Cain ? I love Ty Warren but he's not a great pass rusher. To me this doesn't fix the problem it just moves it from OLB to DE.
 
The Patriots have had months to sign Burgess. While it's possible that there's been some good reason that no deal has yet gotten done and that he'll return, it's time for people to move forward with the assumption that he will not be back with the team.
 
It is quite possible that Belichick considers Ninkovich/Cunnningham a better option than Burgess.

The Patriots have had months to sign Burgess. While it's possible that there's been some good reason that no deal has yet gotten done and that he'll return, it's time for people to move forward with the assumption that he will not be back with the team.
 
Thanks to Pats1, here's the up-to-date roster:
List of current NFL team rosters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on who is here (and ass-uming full health), this is my prefered vertical depth chart:

OLB
TBC - Cunningham
Crable - Ninko
Davis - Fletcher
Woods

ILB
Mayo - Spikes
Guyton - McKenzie
Murrell - Williams
Alexander

The horizontal chart would then be:
TBC - Spikes - Mayo - Cunningham
Crable - McK - Guyton - Ninko
(Davis - Murrell as the 9th/10th LBs)

If Burgess is re-signed, then he would replace Ninko, who would replace Davis, who would become the 11th LB. Even if this happens, this is prob. the worst set of 3-4 OLBs in football. Thanks, Bill.

The Mistakes that are Woods & Alexander Must End, ASAP.
 
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We have started the camps. We have seven linebackers who seem to be almost locks for the 53, barring injury:

Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Spikes, Banta-Cain, Woods and Cunningham.
====================================================
:singing: ...one of these things is not like the other...
 
Why would Greg Ellis be an improvement at this point? He's old, and he doesn't even want to play in a 3-4. I think the best thing that Pats fans can hope/wish for, is that Cunningham will come out and give you an unexpected great rookie season (since he is really the only unknown at this point). I don't really think anyone on the roster or any potential cuts are really going to make the OLB corp any better then it currently is.

THIS.

Greg Ellis is still an FA at this point because hes not an upgrade on ANYONE. :bricks:
 
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