Merged again and again: I do/don't like the Moss trade because...

[TruthSeeker]

it's a stupid, stupid trade. makes the chances of winning the superbowl go from slim (which it was with moss), to none (without Moss).

oh well, let's look forward to 2014, when these young players and draft picks finally start to develop. we'll just find another tom brady!

The chances aren't none. And if they are, it's because of the defense, not the offense. The Patriots may (or may not) have moved from an elite offense to a very good offense but certainly no more than that.

Our SB chances this year are dependent on a defense that plays a lot better and a lot more consistently than they've shown so far this year. There's hope that they may learn to do enough by December, but the odds are against it.

Yes, almost everyone here thinks the Patriots would be a better SB contender with Randy than without him. But I don't really think this changes our chances of winning that much since the offense has so many other weapons. The real story of any SB run will be the Patriots defense (or lack thereof) with an occasional sprinkling of special teams play like Monday night.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This move shows me Bill isn't the same guy, he's TOO infatuated with draft picks. This is why this team gets worse every year. We pass up top talent in the draft for value, now we're losing veterans pn our roser for "value"

They could have traded Asante Samuel when they franchised him in 2007, but they didn't.

Let me ask you this: do you really believe that BB woke up a couple of days ago and said, "F*** it, I'm just going to trade Moss away for the heck of it?"

 

[Deus Irae]

One could argue the true opportunity cost to the Pats of the trade was Moss + 7th + 2012 5th conditional for 3rd.

Well, if we're going for full 'accuracy' including said opportunity cost:

Moss
2012 7th
2012 5th compensatory

For
2011 3rd

 

[Synovia]

We have alot of people on this board infatuated with draft picks.This offense is going down the tubes and it doesnt help that u have Bill O'Brien as an OC.People here are drinking alot of Kool-Aid.

We also have a lot of idiots on this board.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

One could argue the true opportunity cost to the Pats of the trade was Moss + 7th + possible 2012 5th conditional for 3rd.

Again, comp picks aren't guaranteed.

 

[tombonneau]

I want o grab some of you morons talking about value and grab you by your stupid neck and show you the Crable's, Ellis Hobbs of the world. Moss could've brought this ******* team a championship, you think a 3rd rounder will ever do that? BB can't even find a good players in the 3rd round, let alone hoping for it. You trade a guy that could have been our main weapon THIS season for a guy who has an 80% of not even making the final rostr?!

This move shows me Bill isn't the same guy, he's TOO infatuated with draft picks. This is why this team gets worse every year. We pass up top talent in the draft for value, now we're losing veterans pn our roser for "value"

There is NO value in a 3rd rounder. There is no justifyiong this. I would have taken a 50-0 loss compared to Moss being traded. You people think Welker who has never done anything w/out Moss is going to be productive when Welker has not been 50% of his old self this season? You guys think Tate is going to do something suddenly as a WR? You think this offense is going to move?

This year, our D is straight garbage. We NEED the offensive fire power....and we just lost it. As my fan, I'm ******* annoyed that the last 2 seasons BB's has wasted Tom's career. Folks, it will be more miraculous if THIS team wins the SB than our 01 team. We need the offense, we have no running game, and now we just lost our ultimate threat. This season just took a big hit.

And people saying Brady is the same guy without Moss, get serious. Brady put up the best number's of his career with career. His career high with Moss is almost Brady's career best doubled. Brady threw up his 2nd best career numbers when he was playing terrible half the season throwing to Moss. No way this passing attack is the same, I just can't believe this.

Not the most eloquent post, but I agree fully with your thesis.

The trading back all of these stockpiled picks has to stop starting with the 2011 draft. If these 8 picks aren't turned into three impact 2011 rookies (one of whom needs to be AJ Green or Julio Jones) then the dream of Brady winning 1-2 more rings is over.

 

[TruthSeeker]

- Where are you getting the 17 percent stat?
- Adam Carriker. Really? LOL. No, wait. Really? And your evidence that we should have signed him is that he has more tackles than our DLmen?

Man, reading your posts never gets old. I'll give you that, cousin.

Actually I skipped reading the rest of it after the 17% claim...

 

[tombonneau]

Again, comp picks aren't guaranteed.

I would say that 5th comp is about 95% guaranteed. I don't see too many realistic scenarios where it doesn't happen. You expect him to bolt to the CFL or UFL?

 

[shmessy]

Well, if we're going for full 'accuracy' including said opportunity cost:

Moss
2012 7th
2012 5th compensatory

For
2011 3rd

No.

"full accuracy" would be:

Less than one year of the 2010 Moss
2012 7th
2012 5th compensatory

For
2011 3rd

 

[Deus Irae]

No.

"full accuracy" would be:

Less than one year of the 2010 Moss
2012 7th
2012 5th compensatory

For
2011 3rd

Ummm.... "Moss" IS 12 regular season (+ playoffs) games of Moss + the potential to sign him to a longterm extension before he hits free agency.

Is your need to stalk me really so bad that you thought your post had meaning?

 

[Rob0729]

We have alot of people on this board infatuated with draft picks.This offense is going down the tubes and it doesnt help that u have Bill O'Brien as an OC.People here are drinking alot of Kool-Aid.

In three wins, 7 catches for 101 yards and two TDs combined. You can't find many WRs in this league that can produce 2.3 catchs for 33.7 yards and 0.7 TDs a game.

Losing Moss hurts, but let's not make it like he is getting 7 catches for 101 yards and 2 TDs a game. He was invisible on Monday night. Against the Bengals he had one great play for 32 yards and four more decent plays. He has been more valuable as the role of decoy for stretches in this season than anything else. Let's not make it sound like he was on his way to a 1,300 yard, 20 TD season.

 

[shmessy]

Ummm.... "Moss" IS 12 regular season (+ playoffs) games of Moss + the potential to sign him to a longterm extension before he hits free agency.

Is your need to stalk me really so bad that you thought your post had meaning?

Don't flatter yourself. I'm arguing your point. Sorry if you take that personally.

But this begs the question: The "potential" to sign the 33 year old Moss to a long-term contract - - is that a positive asset or a negative asset when tallying up the values?

 

[51Hits]

In three wins, 7 catches for 101 yards and two TDs combined. You can't find many WRs in this league that can produce 2.3 catchs for 33.7 yards and 0.7 TDs a game.

Losing Moss hurts, but let's not make it like he is getting 7 catches for 101 yards and 2 TDs a game. He was invisible on Monday night. Against the Bengals he had one great play for 32 yards and four more decent plays. He has been more valuable as the role of decoy for stretches in this season than anything else. Let's not make it sound like he was on his way to a 1,300 yard, 20 TD season.

Answer, has the offense been productive on the field with Moss, yes or no? Do you think it's in spite of Moss? You don't think Moss draws attention, allowing others to get open? Cmon man. Brady has been spreading the ball all around all season. Moss was just an elite deep threat option, now we lost that. Unless Tate becomes a miracle.

 

[Deus Irae]

Don't flatter yourself. I'm arguing your point. Sorry if you take that personally.

But this begs the question: The "potential" to sign the 33 year old Moss to a long-term contract - - is that a positive asset or a negative asset when tallying up the values?

Only a fool would think it a negative, since "potential" does not equal "requirement".

 

[D-Money]

O'Brien is a terrible OC.Moss has been used basically as a decoy for Welker.

 

[Garbanza]

Do you all really think the Pats were SB caliber WITH Moss?

Honest to betsy - he shot himself out of town. Like a baby, he had a tatrum because he did not get passes thrown his way - except for the one TD he should have caught. Personally, I am glad the "Randy Ratio" is dead and gone in New England. Sure - great talent - best ever. Spreads the field. Makes Welker's life easier. Blah, blah, blah.....but I have been saying this since late in the season of 2007 - they put TOO much emphasis on getting the ball to him. I never understood if that was a pursuit of history, espn highlights reels or trying to keep Randy happy. I suspect it was all three. Hated it. I want TEAM football. This team will now be forced to play it. It will force them to be creative and to grow up real quick on defense. Sure, it weakens the team short term - but it WILL pay dividends in the future. I truly beleive that. That said, this is not an SB caliber team, with or without Moss. The defense is too poor - yes, it will get better - but c'mon people. Could I be wrong? Yes. Doubt it. And no, just because I do not think they are a SB caliber team, does not make me a bad fan. It makes me realistic.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I am not as upset as some of Randy leaving because he was more decoy than a weapon,but I am upset at a lack of BB and the F.O. looking to use that 3rd rounder as ammo to do a trade with another team for a replacement unless they intend to.

 

[Rob0729]

Answer, has the offense been productive on the field with Moss, yes or no? Do you think it's in spite of Moss? You don't think Moss draws attention, allowing others to get open? Cmon man. Brady has been spreading the ball all around all season. Moss was just an elite deep threat option, now we lost that. Unless Tate becomes a miracle.

Is Moss an elite deep threat option anymore? He hasn't been since last November. Other than that one handed TD catch, has he really done anything that Tate or another receiver couldn't do? I think Hernandez has been far more dynamic and wow-enducing than Moss has been this year. I will give you that Moss has been a good decoy this year, but does that make him irreplaceable?

I didn't say Moss leaving wouldn't hurt the offense. I am saying I doubt this offense would collapse without him. There is still a lot of talent on it and one of the best QBs of all time on it. Moss has not been a consistent playmaker this season and that is only way this offense would completely implode with his loss. It isn't as good as it was yesterday, but it is still pretty good.

 

[cjets1]

O'Brien is a terrible OC.Moss has been used basically as a decoy for Welker.

So who stretch the field now? Woodhead This dink and dunk now made it easy now for all teams. Good luck you going to need it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Can we stop belittling great players with obviously stupid comments impugning their abilities? It's a pathetic attempt by the homers to try justifying yet another unforced error by BB. Y'all pulled that same crap with the Seymour trade last year. It was ridiculous then, and it's ridiculous now.