Merged again and again: I do/don't like the Moss trade because...

[jetsfanri]

As a Jets fan who rarely posts here but enjoys reading...a couple of thoughts.

The real question will be how will Welker/Gonzalez/Tate perform with coverages rolling in totally different ways? Welker is now going to face constant double coverage, at least until Tate makes someone pay. Also, can Tate stretch defenses to provide the underneath to both the tight ends and Welker?

As always, the results remain to be seen...but it would be hard to argue that game planning against the Pats just got a lot easier.

 

[pheenix11]

I suspect Brandon Tate is going to be seeing a lot of bombs coming his way.

 

[Boston.T.Party]

I'm loving this trade. First post but I had to say something. They obviously didn't trade moss without thinking of the future. I think the front office looked at the young, stand out talent that he has in Brady's arsenal and realized that a draft pick could easily be used as a bargaining chip for a veteran (Vincent Jackson?) or be used to pick up another young stud in the upcoming draft.


This is what the patriots do. Of course I'm sad to see Moss go but everyone knows that BB is going to find a way to win games without him. I think other teams are getting a little worried about the Pats now that young guns like hernandez, gronkowski, tate, and welker are still putting up respectable numbers and are going to develop into superstars.

 

[tombonneau]

I think you need to wait and see how it plays out.

I had no idea it was trade protocol to poll other coaches and see if they are doing a happy dance. Because if they lose to us anyway, I think it was a good move, don't you? I mean, happy dance notwithstanding.

As the Jet fan above just stated, game planning for the Pats just got easier. Thus, opposing coaches should be happy. Their jobs just got simpler.

As far as if we beat a team it was a good move to trade Moss, that's some twisted logic. Obviously the Pats are still going to win football games and beat teams. I'd like to think that the teams we beat without Moss we still would have beat with him. Unless you contend he was helping them lose games?

 

[shmessy]

Re: I give the deal a 'thumbs up'

Some of those egos were based on what's the word? Talent?

Can team cohesion make up for lack of elite talent?

Can someone send this guy a DVD of the 2001 season?

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Brady's favorite receiver used to be "the open one". Now we should see box scores where 7-10 different players have receptions. Brady has always been great with moving through his progressions, whether those progressions included Moss, Twig, Caldwell, Welker, it shouldn't matter.

 

[shmessy]

Re: I give the deal a 'thumbs up'

jets are filled with huge egos, it's really costed them right?

Look at all the SB rings on their fingers.

Thanks for the entertaining judgement based on 1/4 of the regular season.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: I give the deal a 'thumbs up'

Can someone send this guy a DVD of the 2001 season?

We did lose McGinest and Smith to IR that year, so point taken.

The best player that we lost that season was Bledsoe who had a pretty good replacement. Who replaces Moss?

 

[Bella*chick]

As the Jet fan above just stated, game planning for the Pats just got easier. Thus, opposing coaches should be happy. Their jobs just got simpler.

As far as if we beat a team it was a good move to trade Moss, that's some twisted logic. Obviously the Pats are still going to win football games and beat teams. I'd like to think that the teams we beat without Moss we still would have beat with him. Unless you contend he was helping them lose games?

OK, OK, I didn't put it well.

If we continue to win without Moss, the trade is not a bad one.

However, the effect the trade might have on removing a distraction from the locker room of a young and impressionable team is something you CANNOT gauge.

As for opposing coaches gameplanning, um, good for them it just got easier. But they still have to play the game. And if we beat them I really don't give two craps about how many happy dances they are doing.

 

[DW Toys]

The point is they gave up more for Burgess than they got for Randy Moss. That is just embarassing and inexcusable.

Have to agree.
Dear Pats F.O.
It appears nobody in the F.O. has a clue on trading or acquiring decent players. Yes I will say it now and I don't care what anyone says, unless it's for a "g.d." mediocre draft pick that works out only as a documented, very weak ....17% of the TIME!!!!, we can't figure out how to trade or pick up talent anymore. We do O.K. with the Draft "gamble", you might say but for every Mayo, Vollmer, Hernandez and Gronk and a steal or two like Edleman, we now see the embarrassments such as Maroney, Brace, Jackson, Wheatley, Thomas, O'Connell, Butler, Ornberger or lets look at it this way for a Hall of Fame player like Moss....we get a Taylor Price type quality pick back. How is this for your visual....Randy Moss for Taylor Price!!!!!!!!!

I am guessing the 17% is very accurate for the Pats draft as far as success.We have eight picks in the first four rounds of the 2011 Draft (make that about ten in the first five and a few in 2012 that does not make our team any better next year or the year after because it is our genius plan and oh by the way, let's look at who we missed by trading down. But we did get Slater by trading up I forgot). So two will make an impact we hope. another two will make the roster as JAGS and the other four will not make three years on the Pats. That is just Ducky.

So now when Welker gets triple teamed and we have no down field threat, let's go to the Felgers of the world for advice. I hope Brady has new track shoes and starts wearing lineman pads.

Now lets talk about your stupid trade record:
Burgess for a third and fifth, that super-duper first rounder Maroney for a fourth, trade up for Slater, and speaking of trades we made draft day we wiff on Matthews, Collie even a WR who we traded our top pick to Jerry for.

Please riddle me this?
What good is stock piling picks if you do not use them? Are we in eternal rebuilding (scuse me "retooling") mode?

Nice job F.O.!!! Struck out again didn't you?
You have a cowboy idiot guard you have not even attempted to move who should have been a priority if you had such a damned itchy trigger finger and were desperate for another third rounder.

F.O., your best years were sprinkled with great trades and FA pick ups. After we got our ass kicked by Al Davis on Burgess you have let the Bolden deal urinate down your leg, you have missed on Adam Carriker who you could have stolen, who is not great but has more tackles for the Redskins D Line than any of our D Linemen (Oh yeah, I forgot. It is our scheme that our D Lineman don't have to Tackle), Santonio Holmes for a fifth, Kamerion Wimbley who has more sacks than any of our LBs and is only 26, we wiff at Anderson who leads the Bears in QB pressures over even Peppers and is only 27 year old DE. Yep it is official I grade you out as a c-. The good news is a c- still keeps you eligible.

Keep in mind how the SB Saints and 2007 Pats were built. Trades and FA. Our Draft wasn't great so there ya go.

We laugh at the Jets, but with their pick ups are they not a better team since Rex started wheeling and dealing?

Yes DW Toys is available and way better talent evaluator than one would think and I dare say, certainly better than your track record the last few years. You gave away our best down field threat for a lousy 3rd rounder that you suck at picking anyway, handcuffed the rest of our WR and your multi-million dollar QB. You have NOT bettered the 2010 Patriots. You listened to Felger and all of the rest of those haters and I for one will giggle when Moss catches about 10 for a buck fifty in the Vikes game (chalk that up as a loss guys),

The talent evaluators there make what...$500k per year? I will do it for 10% of that with better results.
When do I start?
DW Toys

 

[Simkin]

Re: I give the deal a 'thumbs up'

Yes the Raiders are very good without Moss that year lol . He impresses the youngs and its bad for the locker room, because of this now the Raiders are a 3X SB champions since Moss is gone to the Pats

 

[fair catch fryar]

Brady has performed admirably without Moss but he's never been better than when Moss was in tow.

Exactly! In fact I said the same thing in 2001 when Terry Glenn was de-activated by BB for being a possible locker room distraction. How is this back-up QB going to do anything without a deep threat like Glenn. I still stand by it too d%#*!@t!!:bricks:

Seriously, we have become quite spoiled and forgotten how ******* good Brady is.

 

[Modest]

The Vikings went after Moss to appease Favre. You have essentially placed the Moss threat in the hands of a media whore who might decide to retire if this plan doesn't work the way the Vikings would like it to. What happens when they in turn offload Moss to lets say- the Jets?

TLDR- I don't like the trade because this could very well be a one season rental of Moss. I'm going to have some serious LOLs if he in turn ends up in this division on another team.

 

[D-Money]

This franchise is in the dumps!Dont like the trade unless u have a vincent jackson trade in the works.Brady is 33 and not 23.Its always the same crap with this organization!Not paying!

 

[D-Money]

No way the vikings are trading Moss!!!This already makes them superbowl contenders and basically the team to beat even with a 40 year old Favre.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Like the trade or not, it makes the season alot more interesting IMO.

We were going to have to replace him next offseason, at least now we are going to get a look at the replacements. It's no longer just a transition year on defense. Now we have a 3rd year UDFA as our starting RB, an essential rookie as our lead wideout, top 2 TE's are rookies. I hope Brady has at least 5 more good years left in him because the next couple years is likely going to see your fair of growing pains.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

Since when was Moss high maintenance? He's been pretty much a perfect citizen for 3 years, while putting up ridiculous numbers at below market.

It's like some of you only took your heads out of the sand to watch his highlight reel receptions...which have been fewer and farther between for almost three seasons now and recently exceeded by his increasingly costly miscues. He has always been high maintenance. That's why he had to cry and beg to even get a shot at a prove it contract here. What happened thereafter was a series of seasons where Randy had to be cajoled, coddled, engaged, defended, reassured constantly when the going got rough. Even down the stretch in the ultimately ringless season for the ages. He is a finesse receiver on a team that historically valued physical and mental toughness and accountability and selfless focus on winning.

I remember in the Carolina game when he was called out by Panthers players and everyone had to rally to his defense less the truth render him useless for the remainder of the season, he came off the field at one point and Belichick was positively glaring at him like he couldn't comprehend who this stiff in a Patriots uniform was - only to have to defend him post game for fear of the repercussions in the alternative. I think the team began to realize at that point he simply could not be counted on from week to week for whatever reason. I said at the time they should just move on in the offseason and I was eviscerated for even suggesting that...

Tyrone McKenzie tweeted his disappointment in losing his homie and mentor who taught him so much this AM. Here's a thought for Tyrone, get the F off twitter and pay attention to your coaches and focus every fiber of your disappointing being on getting your sorry ass on the field or before your gone for a bag of used balls...

 

[JackBauer]

Have to agree.
Dear Pats F.O.
It appears nobody in the F.O. has a clue on trading or acquiring decent players. Yes I will say it now and I don't care what anyone says, unless it's for a "g.d." mediocre draft pick that works out only as a documented, very weak ....17% of the TIME!!!!, we can't figure out how to trade or pick up talent anymore. We do O.K. with the Draft "gamble", you might say but for every Mayo, Vollmer, Hernandez and Gronk and a steal or two like Edleman, we now see the embarrassments such as Maroney, Brace, Jackson, Wheatley, Thomas, O'Connell, Butler, Ornberger or lets look at it this way for a Hall of Fame player like Moss....we get a Taylor Price type quality pick back. How is this for your visual....Randy Moss for Taylor Price!!!!!!!!!

I am guessing the 17% is very accurate for the Pats draft as far as success.We have eight picks in the first four rounds of the 2011 Draft (make that about ten in the first five and a few in 2012 that does not make our team any better next year or the year after because it is our genius plan and oh by the way, let's look at who we missed by trading down. But we did get Slater by trading up I forgot). So two will make an impact we hope. another two will make the roster as JAGS and the other four will not make three years on the Pats. That is just Ducky.

So now when Welker gets triple teamed and we have no down field threat, let's go to the Felgers of the world for advice. I hope Brady has new track shoes and starts wearing lineman pads.

Now lets talk about your stupid trade record:
Burgess for a third and fifth, that super-duper first rounder Maroney for a fourth, trade up for Slater, and speaking of trades we made draft day we wiff on Matthews, Collie even a WR who we traded our top pick to Jerry for.

Please riddle me this?
What good is stock piling picks if you do not use them? Are we in eternal rebuilding (scuse me "retooling") mode?

Nice job F.O.!!! Struck out again didn't you?
You have a cowboy idiot guard you have not even attempted to move who should have been a priority if you had such a damned itchy trigger finger and were desperate for another third rounder.

F.O., your best years were sprinkled with great trades and FA pick ups. After we got our ass kicked by Al Davis on Burgess you have let the Bolden deal urinate down your leg, you have missed on Adam Carriker who you could have stolen, who is not great but has more tackles for the Redskins D Line than any of our D Linemen (Oh yeah, I forgot. It is our scheme that our D Lineman don't have to Tackle), Santonio Holmes for a fifth, Kamerion Wimbley who has more sacks than any of our LBs and is only 26, we wiff at Anderson who leads the Bears in QB pressures over even Peppers and is only 27 year old DE. Yep it is official I grade you out as a c-. The good news is a c- still keeps you eligible.

Keep in mind how the SB Saints and 2007 Pats were built. Trades and FA. Our Draft wasn't great so there ya go.

We laugh at the Jets, but with their pick ups are they not a better team since Rex started wheeling and dealing?

Yes DW Toys is available and way better talent evaluator than one would think and I dare say, certainly better than your track record the last few years. You gave away our best down field threat for a lousy 3rd rounder that you suck at picking anyway, handcuffed the rest of our WR and your multi-million dollar QB. You have NOT bettered the 2010 Patriots. You listened to Felger and all of the rest of those haters and I for one will giggle when Moss catches about 10 for a buck fifty in the Vikes game (chalk that up as a loss guys),

The talent evaluators there make what...$500k per year? I will do it for 10% of that with better results.
When do I start?
DW Toys

- Where are you getting the 17 percent stat?
- Adam Carriker. Really? LOL. No, wait. Really? And your evidence that we should have signed him is that he has more tackles than our DLmen?

Man, reading your posts never gets old. I'll give you that, cousin.

 

[Metaphors]

I don't think like/dislike is really the question. The real question is whether or not Moss HAD to go...meaning was he a distraction in the locker room. If he was, then this was a necessary (and therefore fine) trade. If he wasn't, then this was an awful trade. I'm usually a shades-of-gray guy, but this one is pretty black and white.

Belichick is being methodical about restoring the locker room to a point where everyone is accountable for their actions and opportunities are there for the players willing to work hard and fly right.

Burgess didn't have the drive. Maroney didn't have the production. Moss apparently wasn't fulling invested in the team/season. They had to go. Mankins has yet to find the appropriate balance between business and team...and won't be on the field until he does.

Butler, TBC and Meriweather have seen consequences for dumb or substandard play. A whole bunch of youngsters have stepped up with varying degrees of success. It should be abundantly clear to everyone in that locker room that they need to pull together to succeed. It should also be abundantly clear that these expectations apply to every single player...no exceptions.

The Pats have less talent today than they did yesterday. No sense quibbling over that. It remains to be seen if this brings the team together and gives them a laser-like focus. And will that team focus and unity lead to success in the absence of Burgess, Maroney, Mankins and Moss on the field.

 

[Wolfpack]

3 years earlier the Raiders gave away a future HOFer for a 4th round pick

So what's your point? I mean are you suggesting that "the Raiders did it, therefore it's an OK thing to do"...?