Measuring "Cheap"

[Brady2Moss]

No team has gone to more SB's in the past "garbage" 8 years than the Pats.

they lost both by mere inches.

If you think the miraculous Tyree play and the Welker drop are the result of poor team building, then that is your problem. You obviously have no perspective whatsoever.

I never said the years were "garbage" or the years were "garbage" I said you pointing out their regualr season success and playoff failures as a sign of huge success was "'garbage". Let me say this again before you try to attribute something I did not say to my name: I didn't say the team was "garbage". Your ability to comprehend what you read however is "garbage"

Your ability to count is "garbage".
Steelers have gone to 3 Super Bowls since the Patriots last won, they won two.

Here is a lesson for you. 3 is more than 2.

Two teams have been slightly more successful than the Patriots because they appeared just as many times and actually um... won the super bowl?

Colts 2 appearances 1 win (before you start going insane about how I used the early colts as an example of garbage I said early 2000. 2006 and 2009 were not in the early parts of the 2000s in case you were confused about that.

Giants 2 apperances 2 wins :bricks:

Patriots 2 appearances 2 miracle losses that shouldn't count when discussing problems/flaws with the team.

 

[shmessy]

I'm sorry but i thought actually winning a Superbowl was the point.Do we get gold stars for those AFCCG and Superbowl appearances. Please none of this we were unlucky business no we weren't unlucky we were beaten. The other teams had play makers that made plays and we had our try hard guys.

You mean like that top-end free agent we just lost who dropped the penultimate catch in the most recent SB loss?

 

[shmessy]

I never said the years were "garbage" or the years were "garbage" I said you pointing out their regualr season success and playoff failures was "'garbage". Let me say this again before you try to attribute something I did not say to my name: I didn't say the team was "garbage". Your ability to comprehend what you read however is "garbage"

Your ability to count is "garbage".
Steelers have gone to 3 Super Bowls since the Patriots last won, they won two.

Here is a lesson for you. 3 is more than 2.

Two teams have been slightly more successful than the Patriots because they appeared just as many times and actually um... won the super bowl?

Colts 2 appearances 1 win (before you start going insane about how I used the early colts as an example of garbage I said early 2000. 2006 and 2009 were not in the early parts of the 2000s in case you were confused about that.

Giants 2 apperances 2 wins :bricks:

Patriots 2 appearances 2 miracle losses that shouldn't count when discussing problems/flaws with the team.

Oooh, nice edit on your original "Giants 2 appearances 1 win".

Your edit was just a touch faster than mine.

And, YES, the two losses by the Pats could have gone either way.

So could the 2001 and 2003 wins by the Pats.

The ball bounces a different way doesn't mean the 2001 and 2003 teams were better than the 2007 and 2011 teams. stuff happens. Life is full of happenstance.

To lay that hairline difference to "poor drafting" or "not paying up for premium FA's" (I'm still waiting for the premium FA's from the 2001 and 2003 teams from you) is ignorant..

 

[Brady2Moss]

Oooh, nice edit on your original "Giants 2 appearances 1 win".

Your edit was just a touch faster than mine.

Hahaha you just got completely destroyed and resort to calling me out on an edit, my finger hit 1 instead of 2 it didn't type a sentence of bravado how no other team had more appearances than the Patriots.

How about you respond to what was said. Actually don't I'm sure it will be some BS how I shouldn't be pissed that the team crapped its pants in the AFC Championship game.

It is ignorant to think what worked in 2001-2004 will still work today. The teams are in totally different places the team is totally different in terms of what its strength is. This argument is going nowhere. The Patriots have had holes at wr, cb, and pass rush for years now and until it is properly addressed with young talent instead of old guys they are going to falter in the playoffs. I don't care if its FAs or draft picks it better get addressed soon.

 

[shmessy]

I don't care if its FAs or draft picks it better get addressed soon.

You spent the first two pages of this thread "caring" pretty clearly whether its FA's. Nice revisionism there.

Go ahead and keep complaining how badly the Patriots are run. I could care less if you spend your time completely missing the greatest story of major sports league dominance in the 21st century.

In the meantime, I'm going to sleep, I have to get up and run my business in the morning advising my clients and mentoring nervous interns from "top 15 universities".

Good night, kid, and don't drink too much Red Bull.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You spent the first two pages of this thread "caring" pretty cleatrly if its FA's. nice revisionism there.

Go ahead and keep complaining how badly the Patriots are run. I could care less if you spend your time completely missing the greatest story of major sports league dominance in the 21st century.

In the meantime, I'm going to sleep, I have to get up and run my business in the morning advising my clients and mentoring nervous interns form "top 15 universities".

Lmao if you could read you would see I said this was the only avenue left since they can't draft. I had assumed you read the thread before throwing your garbage around here. You are a homer true and true, they have become a story of choking because of terrible personnel decisions that have left them dry at key positions.

Aha ahaa, how funny to act like going to a good school is laughable.

Goodnight I still don't get all the hostility given we are fans of the same team and want the same thing, another lombardi.

 

[shmessy]

Lmao if you could read you would see I said this was the only avenue left since they can't draft. I had assumed you read the thread before throwing your garbage around here. You are a homer true and true, they have become a story of choking because of terrible personnel decisions that have left them dry at key positions.

Aha ahaa, how funny to act like going to a good school is laughable.

Goodnight I still don't get all the hostility given we are fans of the same team and want the same thing, another lombardi.

1) Once again, the last SB they were in the "choke" you complain about was performed by the FA they lost last week that you are decrying. Is that the "terrible personnel decisions that have left them dry at key positions." Is it dawning on you yet?

2) "They can't draft"???? The past 3 years: McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mesko, Spikes, Solder, Dennard, Ridley, Vereen, Hightower, Chandler Jones all say hi.

Someday, the Patriots WILL revert to the norm in the league. For kids like you, with no pre-BB perspective, it wll be devastating. I feel sorry for you and what is someday coming.

3) I graduated from a top-15 university also. Big deal, kid. On it's own, that and a dollar doesn't buy you coffee in the real world. Like I wrote before, I have several top-15 university interns in my office, and they are just as nervous and unsure of themselves as the top-50 university interns. It's ok, you'll learn.

 

[tonyto3690]

It's amazing how the Patriots are spent up to the cap limit (ie. max they are allowed to spend) every year, yet Kraft and the Patriots constantly get called cheap.

I suppose it's because instead of following the proven Jets/Raiders/Redskins approach of winning championships by blowing our load on every Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, and Jonathan Babin available, we've done the same things that got us a dynasty and have made us a top 3 team every year for the past decade (minus 2009).

Man, I really wish BB and Kraft would stop being so cheap and try to field a real winner like the Jets.

 

[Brady2Moss]

1) Once again, the last SB they were in the "choke" you complain about was performed by the FA they lost last week that you are decrying. Is that the "terrible personnel decisions that have left them dry at key positions." Is it dawning on you yet?

2) "They can't draft"???? The past 3 years: McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mesko, Spikes, Solder, Dennard, Ridley, Vereen, Hightower, Chandler Jones all say hi.

Someday, the Patriots WILL revert to the norm in the league. For kids like you, with no pre-BB perspective, it wll be devastating. I feel sorry for you and what is someday coming.

3) I graduated from a top-15 university also. Big deal, kid. Like I wrote before, I have several top-15 university interns in my office, and they are just as nervous and unsure of themselves as the top-30 university interns. It's ok, you'll learn.

They didn't draft from 2006-2009 and its left a big hole in this team. I know they'll revert to the norm so they better cash in while they still have BB and Brady. I stated that I got my degree from a top-15 university because you were questioning my grasp of economics. I was letting you know I actually have a strong understanding of economics backed up by a degree.

But that same free agent is touted by some as an example that we are a-ok at wide receiver so which is it?

We're never going to agree here at least your not a moron like Bruins29 (Seems to think I haven't ever kiss a woman, but am also gay for Welker) or Tonyto (I've seen him around footballsfuture everyone laughs in his face with his pro-Patriot garbage).

 

[Brady2Moss]

It's amazing how the Patriots are spent up to the cap limit (ie. max they are allowed to spend) every year, yet Kraft and the Patriots constantly get called cheap.

I suppose it's because instead of following the proven Jets/Raiders/Redskins approach of winning championships by blowing our load on every Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, and Jonathan Babin available, we've done the same things that got us a dynasty and have made us a top 3 team every year for the past decade (minus 2009).

Man, I really wish BB and Kraft would stop being so cheap and try to field a real winner like the Jets.

Did you grow tired of being laughed off Footballsfuture for being a humongous Patriots homer and decide to troll here?

 

[tonyto3690]

Did you grow tired of being laughed off Footballsfuture for being a humongous Patriots homer and decide to troll here?

Readas: WAHHHHH


That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You're just defensive and lashing out like a 6 year old.

Sorry, go be a Jets fan. They clearly do a better job managing their team than Belichick does in your eyes.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Readas: WAHHHHH


That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You're just defensive and lashing out like a 6 year old.

Sorry, go be a Jets fan. They clearly do a better job managing their team than Belichick does in your eyes.

Just pointing out that you've been laughed off other boards and have brought your crap here. You'll be more welcomed here, there are many that share your opinions.

Aw man did I touch a nerve? Nah I'll roll with my Pats till I die, I sure won't be told what to do by the likes of you.

 

[ausbacker]

Did you grow tired of being laughed off Footballsfuture for being a humongous Patriots homer and decide to troll here?

Is there a particular reason why people who share a different opinion to yours are branded homers? I've read some very reasonable and rather thoughtful responses to your line of thinking. Keep the childish crap to yourself. Nobody is interested in that. I couldn't give a **** if tony has been laughed off other boards. It's the job of the respondent to support or prove their argument against that of the original position. You haven't provided a reason that, as a neutral, makes me sit back and notice your opinion more than anyone else.

Here's a question for you. Which team drafts better than Bill Belichick during his time as a Patriot GM? The Patriots aren't cheap. They're not investing in the specific players you want. That's all it comes down to.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Is there a particular reason why people who share a different opinion to yours are branded homers? I've read some very reasonable and rather thoughtful responses to your line of thinking. Keep the childish crap to yourself. Nobody is interested in that. I couldn't give a **** if tony has been laughed off other boards. It's the job of the respondent to support or prove their argument against that of the original position. You haven't provided a reason that, as a neutral, makes me sit back and notice your opinion more than anyone else.

Here's a question for you. Which team drafts better than Bill Belichick during his time as a Patriot GM? The Patriots aren't cheap. They're not investing in the specific players you want. That's all it comes down to.

Is there a reason before I call them homers they call me a moron and refuse to address anything without saying the patriots are the best so there's no way to question them ?

No gm is better if you take the first 4 years into account. I'd say the Giants and steelers have been just as well run since 04 or better give they have been to the same or more superbowls and won 2 more each.

And before you say they don't sign free agents were in a unique situation with tons of cap room because our QB gave us huge relief so we have lots of money to play with.

 

[PlainOldEd]

Is there a reason before I call them homers they call me a moron and refuse to address anything without saying the patriots are the best so there's no way to question them ?

No gm is better if you take the first 4 years into account. I'd say the Giants and steelers have been just as well run since 04 or better give they have been to the same or more superbowls and won 2 more each.

And before you say they don't sign free agents were in a unique situation with tons of cap room because our QB gave us huge relief so we have lots of money to play with.

The reason they call you a moron is that you are a moron.

Your point that the Pats are cheap because they don't overspend on big name free agents is ridiculous.

 

[BB4PRez]

Back to the topic

To determine whether the team was cheap I would want to look at how much the team has paid out in salary as compared to its competitors over and extended period of time. The way bonuses work on these contracts I think you need to look at a 5+ year period.

If the team is in the bottom third in terms of payout then they are cheap. Middle third average. If they are in the top third then generous. I have seen stats on this but don't have time to find the link. My memory is that they seem to fall on the border of average and generous, which is fine.

The perception is the Pats are cheap, which isn't true. The Krafts often hold themsevlves out as actually being extremely generous, which if my memory is correct isn't quite true either.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The reason they call you a moron is that you are a moron.

Your point that the Pats are cheap because they don't overspend on big name free agents is ridiculous.

Easy to say someone's a moron when you have the masses of BB homers behind you. Come talk to me when they lose again in the playoffs because they have no pass rush, no receivers, and no corners.

 

[fester]

Easy to say someone's a moron when you have the masses of BB homers behind you. Come talk to me when they lose again in the playoffs because they have no pass rush, no receivers, and no corners.

Then your argument is one of resources are being allocated inefficiently or incorrectly, not that the resources are not there.

That is distinction is the one that you do not seem to be aware that you are making. You are arguing that the Patriots roster building philosophy is flawed. If I understand your argument correctly, you believe the Patriots should have a more top-heavy long term distribution of salary cap space where the top-10 contracts on the team eat up a significantly higher proportion of cap space because those are elite players (either home grown or Vet FAs on big second contracts) while the rest of the team can be paid near vet min cap hits. The Patriots believe otherwise in most years.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Then your argument is one of resources are being allocated inefficiently or incorrectly, not that the resources are not there.

That is distinction is the one that you do not seem to be aware that you are making. You are arguing that the Patriots roster building philosophy is flawed. If I understand your argument correctly, you believe the Patriots should have a more top-heavy long term distribution of salary cap space where the top-10 contracts on the team eat up a significantly higher proportion of cap space because those are elite players (either home grown or Vet FAs on big second contracts) while the rest of the team can be paid near vet min cap hits. The Patriots believe otherwise in most years.

Stated multiple times they are not cheap in the traditional sense of the word. Didn't say I want tons of huge contracts either. Just wanted an impact guy this year which could've been done for a reasonable price. Clearly no one here agrees so ill stop wasting my time.

 

[Ivan]

The patriots don't have any corners?

I could have sworn they re-signed Talib and Dennard is coming back.


It is pretty tough to get vets who still want to start to come in as back-ups when there are starting jobs open around the league, especially ones that will pay more.