Measuring "Cheap"

[Brady2Moss]

You need to huff some glue, eat some cat food, and drink a beer. Eventually it'll come.

Drinking the kool aid is much more pleasant.

 

[shmessy]

Orly I have a biology and economics degree from a top 15 university and I know nothing about economics

Ooooooh, I'm so impressed........ We have a couple of good interns in my office from top 15 universities. They need some help with the coffee machine, but they are improving.

Yes, "Orly" you know nothing about economics and the NFL.

 

[JackBauer]

Drinking the kool aid is much more pleasant.

At least on that red stuff you can construct arguments that are actually coherent.

 

[Brady2Moss]

At least on that red stuff you can construct arguments that are actually coherent.

Right.

 

[shmessy]

Drinking the kool aid is much more pleasant.

The koolaid of a team that hasn't had a losing season in 12 years is fine wine compared to the swill of whatever Redskins or Jets franchise you want the Pats to emulate.

 

[Ring 6]

I actually agree with the way the Patriots manage things financially, for the most part, but they can be real ballbusters and have a history of offering less, and players have talked about that for years. I agree they set a value and stick to it, i just think their bar is almost always under market value and getting people to sign comes from their success and the opportunity to win and play for a really good team. Even the deals for guys like Mayo, Gronk, and Hernandez are team friendly, which is something they excel at.

Most of the time Belichick is right about when to keep and cut players, but sometimes he gets stuck on their top players making market contracts, and we saw that with Law, Branch, Seymour, Vinatieri, and Samuel, and will probably see it with Spikes in the near future. They are great at getting most of their key players, but sometimes they could go the extra mile with their best players and be much better off and not have to expend resources trying to replace your playmakers.You go the extra million and save the picks and misses trying to fill that hole. Samuel is a great example of this. he wanted big money, but they would have been better off paying him and using all the resources they wasted trying to fill his shoes on other needs, I guarantee they spent much more capital trying to replace him than they would have used by just cutting a deal.

Being 'tight' with some players allows them to pay a little more for others.
There really aren't any players they truly wanted to keep that they didn't. So I don't think having a reputation is accurate.
I disagree on Samuel, he was never worth that contract. And I disagree on 'all those resources'. Bodden was the replacement and there is no way to account for him having a career ending injury. They retained other, more complete and valuable players that they would not have been able to if they kept Samuel.
As someone said earlier, a budget is very simple, you can say 'add this' without saying 'subtract that'.

You can really only characterize what they spend on individual players as 'cheap' if you can't find players to take it, or the ones that do add up to a poor team.
Seeing greater value in mid range players than very expensive ones isn't cheap, its smart.
The cap is about getting more value per dollar than you spend. That is often realized in first contracts, but if you pay the top of the market for anyone you aren't going to get more value that you paid for, while the mid range players offer more potential to exceed their contract.
In the ends its all about the sum of the parts, not the individual parts.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The koolaid of a team that hasn't had a losing season in 12 years is fine wine compared to the swill of whatever Redskins or Jets franchise you want the Pats to emulate.

Reading comprehension. It can be your friend. I have said half a dozen times I am not promoting a Redskins approach.

Please keep your early 2000 Colts garbage to yourself. The team has emulated that model just fine since 2010.

 

[JackBauer]

Reading comprehension. It can be your friend. I have said half a dozen times I am not promoting a Redskins approach.

Please keep your early 2000 Colts garbage to yourself. The team has emulated that model just fine since 2010.

Were you a fan of the NEP prior to 2000?

Honest question.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Were you a fan of the NEP prior to 2000?

Honest question.

Yup, but I am young and do not know much of the dark ages as some posters here, i.e. pre-Parcells.

 

[JackBauer]

Yup, but I am young and do not know much of the dark ages as some posters here, i.e. pre-Parcells.

Ah. It all makes sense now.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Ah. It all makes sense now.

I wasn't aware one had to be older than 30 to post on this board. My mistake.

 

[shmessy]

Reading comprehension. It can be your friend. I have said half a dozen times I am not promoting a Redskins approach.

Please keep your early 2000 Colts garbage to yourself. The team has emulated that model just fine since 2010.

You can say you haven't, but everyone can see that you ARE recommending emulating the Redskins approach.

And let's see, in the two years since 2010, that "garbage" approach has gotten the Patriots two straight AFC Championship home games - - and one SB (where they were inches from winning).

Please tell us all how that is disastrous team building. Be creative and exhaustive in your analysis. Rely heavily on your "top 15 University" experience.

 

[JackBauer]

I wasn't aware one had to be older than 30 to post on this board. My mistake.

That makes sense, considering I'm not 30.

It certainly does explain your general take on things, though.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You can say you haven't, but everyone can see that you are emulating the Redskins approach.

And let's see, in the two years since 2010, that "garbage" approach has gotten them to one SB (where they were inches from winning) and one AFCCG home game.

Please tell us all how that is disastrous team building. Be creative and exhaustive in your analysis. Rely heavily on your "top 15 University" experience.

I knew education would be frowned upon on this forum. It was you that started it, I merely told you that I'm not a moron, have gone to a good school, and actually have a degree in the subject you claim I am clueless in.

If I want one impact player that isn't past his prime in this years market is that Redskins like? Going rate for one of those seems to be 5-8 million. Hardly some monstrous cap hit.

I said you bringing up regular season success is garbage not the approach. The approach is very good, but could be served to have some tweaks to cover glaring holes. If they could fix their wr, cb, pass rush scouting this would be a moot point. Those are positions of need that have no been adequately filled in a while.

Ifs and buts, how many SBs have they won in the last 8 years you don't even need a brain to answer that question. So even one such as yourself should be more than capable of coming up with the answer.

 

[shmessy]

Yup, but I am young and do not know much of the dark ages as some posters here, i.e. pre-Parcells.

Well, that explains a lot about your Little Lord Fauntleroy/Veruca Salt attitude to the utter embarrassment of only getting to two straight AFC Championship home games the past two years.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Well, that explains a lot about your Little Lord Fauntleroy/Veruca Salt attitude to the utter embarrassment of only getting to two straight AFC Championship home games the past two years.

Hyperbole really makes you more right. Sorry that I would like the team to get back over the hump when they are so close.

 

[Fencer]

If Samuel and WW caught those passes we would have 5 rings. Why dosent anyone blame them?

You must be new here. :rocker:

 

[Fencer]

People are conflating two separate issues regarding the Patriots and their spending habits. The Patriots are not cheap as a franchise, they routinely spend to the cap and are never 40 and 50 million under, like the truly cheap teams like Cincinnatti. On the other hand the Patriots are very tight and tough when it comes to individual deals with players. Other than a few players, like Brady, they don't want to give market deals to their players and almost always go lowball when dealing with both their players and free agents.

You're further conflating things.

First, the Patriots want to on average pay players below market value, so they can have an above average market value of talent on their team. They're no different from others in this regard, but maybe they do it better.

Second, they seem to have more of a take-it-or-leave-it negotiating attitude than other teams do. There's a lot to be said for that approach, and I speak with semi-professional knowledge of negotiating theory when I say that.

 

[kudzif]

You can say you haven't, but everyone can see that you ARE recommending emulating the Redskins approach.

And let's see, in the two years since 2010, that "garbage" approach has gotten the Patriots two straight AFC Championship home games - - and one SB (where they were inches from winning).

Please tell us all how that is disastrous team building. Be creative and exhaustive in your analysis. Rely heavily on your "top 15 University" experience.

I'm sorry but i thought actually winning a Superbowl was the point.Do we get gold stars for those AFCCG and Superbowl appearances. Please none of this we were unlucky business no we weren't unlucky we were beaten. The other teams had play makers that made plays and we had our try hard guys.

 

[shmessy]

Ifs and buts, how many SBs have they won in the last 8 years you don't even need a brain to answer that question. So even one such as yourself should be more than capable of coming up with the answer.

No team has gone to more SB's in the past "garbage" 8 years than the Pats.

They lost both by mere inches.

If you think the miraculous Tyree play and the Welker drop are the result of poor team building, then that is your problem. You obviously have no perspective whatsoever.

And if you think the Patriots won their 3 Super Bowls trophies with more higher end free agents than they've had in the past 8 years, then your ignorance of the subject doesn't deserve any more attention.