Measuring "Cheap"

[Ivan]

But since it works shouldn't they continue?

.

Of course, but they also have to take into account that they are in a really unique situation, one they won't likely see again. The Patriots, Belichick, Brady, and Kraft are all 1 Super Bowl win from immortality. Belichick and brady both go down as the best ever, the Patriots join the rare club of teams with four Lombardi's. And while Kraft is likely to make the HOF as is another ring makes him a lock.

The Patriots are and always will be under this ownership a smart franchise that is always sound economically. However when a franchise is sitting where they are right now an extra push to go over the top and close out the era with more championships makes all the sense in the world, and if pushing the envelope and getting creative financially is required they should do it. This team has been too good for too long without winning a Lombardi and they need to do what it takes to get another ring or two to finish this era.


I would gladly take a couple of down years post Brady for 2 more rings to finish his career, and if that means pushing the issue then I say go for it.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Of course, but they also have to take into account that they are in a really unique situation, one they won't likely see again. The Patriots, Belichick, Brady, and Kraft are all 1 Super Bowl win from immortality. Belichick and brady both go down as the best ever, the Patriots join the rare club of teams with four Lombardi's. The Patriots are and always will be under this ownership a smart franchise that is always sound economically. However when a franchise is sitting where they are right now an extra push to go over the top and close out the era with more championships makes all the sense in the world, and if pushing the envelope and getting creative financially is required they should do it. This team has been too good for too long without winning a Lombardi and they need to do what it takes to get another ring or two to finish this era.


I would gladly take a couple of down years post Brady for 2 more rings to finish his career, and if that means pushing the issue then I say go for it.

People act like the results of this team making that extra push to get a free agent or two will have the same effect it has had on the Redskins a horribly run team with no QB up until this year. Get real guys this team is unique you cannot compare what might happen if this team spends a bit more on top line guys to what happened with garbage franchises.

 

[Bruins29]

Brady2moss and Ivan.

Just so you know I am a full 100% all in guy for the next 4 years or whatever to do whatever it takes to get one more ring for TB so I can tell all my ******* football friends that TB12 is the GOAT and that is it.

So, if we have to have 10 years of crap. I will take it for a ring or two.

I just dont think (as it been explained over and over to you guys) that its all about marque talent. I actually think that locker-room chemistry and team chemistry wins way more SB's than talent.

Which I why I say get the right players, not the expensive ones.

You know we are building a team, not collecting talent quote from BB . Its true.

Round and round we go

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

My main point is they need to find a solution to their wr, cb, and pass rush problems if you can't draft them you need to overpay in FA for them or you will always have holes. I don't act like it always works, but honestly it is the only avenue to pursue at this point the old guys haven't cut it for years aside from Carter and Anderson who both had their flaws (Carter an old guy didn't even play in the playoffs which is another problem with the old guys they get hurt more often).

I don't WANT to spend but i think this team HAS to spend unless they fix their scouting of 3 positions that are becoming extremely crucial in this new NFL.

That's the thing, you don't NEED to overpay in FA, it is possible to improve the WR, CB and pass rush problems without getting Mike Wallace-Miami stupid.

And I hear you in older players getting hurt. To be fair, our 25 year old prized free agent catch in 2003, Roosevelt Colvin, broke his hip without being touched. Look at our young TEs.

In an earlier post, you said we have very little room for error because of Brady's window. I believe many of us that agree with the spread-the-wealth team building approach will say the same thing but from a different point of view. I'm not saying NEVER spend big money on a player. But if we do, and that player either doesn't work out or goes down with a season ending injury, our room for error gets that much smaller because of the players we couldn't sign because of that big contract.

That's the way I look at it. If Baltimore had gone after a stud free agent last season but he went on IR early and they didn't have the money to spend for Jacoby Jones, do they win the Super Bowl this year?

And we're not done, you at least acknowledged we're working on it. Who knows who we'll sign? If we were three weeks away from training camp instead of one week into the offseason, and our roster looked like it does now, I'd be much more understanding of how you feel.

 

[Brady2Moss]

That's the thing, you don't NEED to overpay in FA, it is possible to improve the WR, CB and pass rush problems without getting Mike Wallace-Miami stupid.

And I hear you in older players getting hurt. To be fair, our 25 year old prized free agent catch in 2003, Roosevelt Colvin, broke his hip without being touched. Look at our young TEs.

In an earlier post, you said we have very little room for error because of Brady's window. I believe many of us that agree with the spread-the-wealth team building approach will say the same thing but from a different point of view. I'm not saying NEVER spend big money on a player. But if we do, and that player either doesn't work out or goes down with a season ending injury, our room for error gets that much smaller because of the players we couldn't sign because of that big contract.

That's the way I look at it. If Baltimore had gone after a stud free agent last season but he went on IR early and they didn't have the money to spend for Jacoby Jones, do they win the Super Bowl this year?

And we're not done, you at least acknowledged we're working on it. Who knows who we'll sign? If we were three weeks away from training camp instead of one week into the offseason, and our roster looked like it does now, I'd be much more understanding of how you feel.

I don't think they need to grossly overpay, but I think this year they could have addressed CB and pass rush for relatively cheap. But agree Mike Wallace money is stupid. And agreed putting your eggs in one basket can kill you. This team really just needs to draft better at certain positions, history has shown they have problems with it. I'm hoping they can fix it. If they Abraham gives them one last great season then I'll be happy as hell. If they draft a WR in the first I'll also be a bit more at ease because the wr crew is iffy at this point.

 

[Ring 6]

You and my definition of cheap are different so we will never agree on that point.

Your definition of cheap and the English defintion of cheap are different.

I don't buy that they are getting Dummervil he's too short for their system. If they do I'll eat my crow.

They are actively pursuing him. You seem to not undertstand that you cannot just decide to sign someone when there are 31 other teams competing. There is every reason to believe they are pusuing a top pass rusher.
Last year they moved up in the draft to get one.
The year before they signed the 2 most productive pass rushing FAs
Prior to that they signed the most expensive OLB on the market in 2007 to team with Vrabel. They drafted Crabel in round 3, Bequette in round 3. They signed Colvin as the top FA on the market before that.
It is insane to say the Patriots haven't make appropriate efforts to bolster there pass rush consistently since BB has been here.

My meaning was that they could have gotten another corner besides Talib to have 2 competent ones for 5 million each.

They drafted Dennard last year, and he will start. They signed a ncikle corner for 4 mill a year. Why would you waste 5 mill on another corner? They wouldn't be able to afford a pass rusher if you did that. 14 mill on 3 corners when you have 25 mill to spend when you have no WRs no RT and no pass rushers besides Jones is ridiculous.
As someone said to you earlier, a budget is simple. You can't say I want this without saying what you will sacrifice for it.

I am saying that it is stupid to think a prime FA would take 1 year deal,

Probably true.

I read it on NFL.com the article has since been taken down or moved I can't find it I tried.

But you know as well as I do that they wouldn't have wasted their time offering that to a guy looking for a 7 year break the bank deal. To think so it to be out of touch with the real world.

]My post about getting 2 guys for the price of 10 million was a compromise between this teams desire to get a lot of players instead of putting all their eggs in one basket.

That makes no sense. Amendola got 5/28 for a first year hit of 3.5. Arrington 4/16 for a 1st year hit of 2.625. In other words the first year hit is about 60% of the AAV normally.
Why would you sign a guy for 1/5 when the only way to do that is for someone with issues who cant get a long term deal when instead you could sign a guy for 5/40?
You just have a huge mixed up idea of how free agency works.
The Patriots use the bulk of their money on young players or players in their prime, favoiring keeping their own. Then they supplement that by getting a good price on an aging player trying to get more short term value out of the money to go along with the long term value.
Everythoing you post sounds like you are talking about a different team.

This was a year where you could do that. I have no hatred

Your posts spew it.

I used to be really optimistic about this team and still am except when it comes to wr, cb, and pass rush this team has a lot of trouble drafting those positions and does not "value" them enough in FA to get top quality players at those positions.

They have spent heavily in picks and/or contracts on those spots. We have had some of the best WR seasons in NFL history from Moss and Welker. Brady just had the 2nd highest passing total in NFL history 2 years ago, and you are saying the team doesn't value recievers? They just signed 2 TEs to 2 of the biggest TE contracts ever.
The draft choices at corner are voluminous. In the 4 years they have spend a 1, 2 2s on corners. They have traded for a top corner. They signed the 2nd most expensive corner on the market (Bodden) and just signed Talib.
I listed the pass rushing moves earlier.
None of what you says adds up.

if you can't draft them and don't want to sign them, well you are going to have holes at those positions every year, which you have to agree they have had since 2007.

Moss and Welker at WR is not a hole. Welker and the 29th most productive WR in the NFL along with the 2 top TEs is not a hole.
The defense needed to be rebuilt due to age. You seem to think it just takes a snap of the fingers.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Checking in briefly to observe the rampant idiocy that seems to have infected the board due to the Welker defection. Just curious about one thing - is there a relationship between the "Kraft is cheap" brigade and the "sky is falling" game day threads in terms of posters or is it an unrelated phenomenon?

 

[Brady2Moss]

Your definition of cheap and the English defintion of cheap are different.


They are actively pursuing him. You seem to not undertstand that you cannot just decide to sign someone when there are 31 other teams competing. There is every reason to believe they are pusuing a top pass rusher.
Last year they moved up in the draft to get one.
The year before they signed the 2 most productive pass rushing FAs
Prior to that they signed the most expensive OLB on the market in 2007 to team with Vrabel. They drafted Crabel in round 3, Bequette in round 3. They signed Colvin as the top FA on the market before that.
It is insane to say the Patriots haven't make appropriate efforts to bolster there pass rush consistently since BB has been here.


They drafted Dennard last year, and he will start. They signed a ncikle corner for 4 mill a year. Why would you waste 5 mill on another corner? They wouldn't be able to afford a pass rusher if you did that. 14 mill on 3 corners when you have 25 mill to spend when you have no WRs no RT and no pass rushers besides Jones is ridiculous.
As someone said to you earlier, a budget is simple. You can't say I want this without saying what you will sacrifice for it.


Probably true.


But you know as well as I do that they wouldn't have wasted their time offering that to a guy looking for a 7 year break the bank deal. To think so it to be out of touch with the real world.



That makes no sense. Amendola got 5/28 for a first year hit of 3.5. Arrington 4/16 for a 1st year hit of 2.625. In other words the first year hit is about 60% of the AAV normally.
Why would you sign a guy for 1/5 when the only way to do that is for someone with issues who cant get a long term deal when instead you could sign a guy for 5/40?
You just have a huge mixed up idea of how free agency works.
The Patriots use the bulk of their money on young players or players in their prime, favoiring keeping their own. Then they supplement that by getting a good price on an aging player trying to get more short term value out of the money to go along with the long term value.
Everythoing you post sounds like you are talking about a different team.




Your posts spew it.


They have spent heavily in picks and/or contracts on those spots. We have had some of the best WR seasons in NFL history from Moss and Welker. Brady just had the 2nd highest passing total in NFL history 2 years ago, and you are saying the team doesn't value recievers? They just signed 2 TEs to 2 of the biggest TE contracts ever.
The draft choices at corner are voluminous. In the 4 years they have spend a 1, 2 2s on corners. They have traded for a top corner. They signed the 2nd most expensive corner on the market (Bodden) and just signed Talib.
I listed the pass rushing moves earlier.
None of what you says adds up.



Moss and Welker at WR is not a hole. Welker and the 29th most productive WR in the NFL along with the 2 top TEs is not a hole.
The defense needed to be rebuilt due to age. You seem to think it just takes a snap of the fingers.

Where do you read they are actively pursuing him?

I didn't even want Arrington back for that much he is overpaid. And anyway the fact that you list all the wasted picks on corners is making my point they suck at drafting them, you need to pay the piper in free agency then or be left with a hole at the position. This year they will be ok if Talib is healthy for 16 games and the playoffs, if not they are screwed because Arrington goes outside and he is toast then.

All you talk about is what they did 6 years ago I do not care they haven't won anything since then. Also trading for Welker and Moss 6 years ago means nothing to todays team that has a hole at wide receiver and further proves they can't draft wide receivers and since Moss was traded have had a need at outside receiver that they cannot fill through the draft or free agency.

I've acknowledged they keep their own and they have no wr or cb or pass rusher aside from maybe Dennard and Chandler Jones to keep. Wanna know why? Because they suck really really bad at drafting corners and pass rushers.

I know how FA works, you think you are the only person that knows how anything works? They had 25 million to spend and could have had anyone they wanted.

Finally, snap of a finger? They've been rebuilding since 2008. I didn't know 5 years was how long it took to snap a finger. What a joke.

Let's agree to disagree if they lose again in the playoffs due to a lack of pass rush, cb depth, or lack of competent receivers please do me the courtesy of not telling me I'm stupid.

 

[mgteich]

I haven't read the whole thread. I'm sure andy has done a fine job of explaining this issues, as he has done so many times in the past.

I have a couple of comments.

1) There is management and there are the players. The teams that pay the lowest percentage of the cap to the players are the cheap teams. Those teams have many millions left in the cap at year's end. Kraft is not cheap. The patriots are not cheap.

2) There are several allocation issues. One philsophy is stars and JAGs. Give almost all your money to your top players, and hope the rest do OK. While we are getting MUCH more top heavy than we used to be, the patriots like the middle level players to be paid relatively well.

3) Another allocation issue involves units on the squad. The stars are the exceptions. However, the team tries not to pay one unit a huge portion of the cap money. Of course, timing is everything. For example, since our running backs are rookie contracts, we have a huge bargain there.

4) Another allocation issue involves free agents vs. your own players. Some teams are almost never active in the beginning of free agency, prefering to re-sign their own. This has been the general patriot practice; and yes, the team wanted to sign Welker.

5) Another aspect of having money for the middle and end of the roster is the ability to able to take chances (Cannon, Dennard and others). The patriots have also gotten solid production from older players for a 1-3 years at a quite reasonable price.

6) This year, I expected/wanted the patriots to resign their own top 7 free agents, knowing that we would likely lose Thomas. We'll see where we are in a few weeks, with decisions still to be made on Lloyd, Edelman and Vollmer. Wilson was a huge patriot type signing, as was Washington and Svitek. Abraham and Freeney would be also. Jones was a patriot type signing if he were an addition to what we had, or as an upgrade to Edelman or to Branch.

Finally, draft choices are assets also. There is allocation of resources between the draft and free agency. Belichick sometimes chooses to fill certain positions in the draft; this needs to be considered in some of the free agent analysis. For example, we went into one draft wanting a LT. We drafted Solder. Perhaps this year the plan is to draft a RT, if Vollmer's injuries and price need to sign are not acceptable. For example, we have lots of veteran safeties. If we want a safety to compete with Tavon for the future, then we might draft one. Adding another vet makes little sense. Of course Wilson made sense (as folks pointed out to me) because he also meets the need of having an additional coverage linebacker.

Kraft and the Pats get called cheap a lot, on this board and by the media. It seems to be a reaction to signings that aren't made, and to perceived star players not acquired.

Isn't the only measure of "cheapness" the % of the cap that a team spends to? The other metrics are about HOW the money is spent - the distribution of the money across the players and positions. "Cheap" is about HOW MUCH money is spent - the overall player budget.

There also seems to be a little disagreement about how much of tomorrow's cap to spend on today's players, through signing bonuses that tend to get more highly rated players today but leave more dead cap room later. But that issue doesn't seem to drive the issue in this debate.

I'd love to hear other views on this. It seems very simple to me but that is always a warning sign.

 

[shmessy]

Hyperbole 101 back in effect from the homer brigade, I don't want it filled with studs I would rather some of the vet signings be pushed into 1 player that actually makes a difference. Didn't say sign Peppers, Williams, Wallace, and every other top free agent. How about instead of signing 6 people for bargain deals, sign 1 impact guy and 2-3 bargains.

It is cheapness they do not like to pay for top end talent unless they are groomed in their system and have put in years of vastly overplaying their contracts. Even then they push them out the door sometimes. Example #1 Wes Welker.

I guess them spending to the cap means they aren't cheap. Don't they not like to give out big signing bonuses like other teams? Because they don't wanna spend the cash. It's a business buddy they're squeezing all the success they can out of Tom Brady, once he retires you'll see the bandwagon break apart.

Wow. You don't understand a thing do you?

They spend as much as any team does. It's just divided up differently. So their $123 million is evidently "cheaper" than other teams' $123 million?

I hope your parents make sure to teach you that just because you have checks remaining in your checkbook, it doesn't mean you still have money in your account because you don't understand the first thing about economics.

Evidently, you never heard of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Mayo. In your mind, only Brady has been given a big contract.

Just look at the plights of Baltimore and Pittsburgh right now. How much can your Redskins or Jets spend this offseason????? You'd LOVE being a fan of those teams - - they give out GREAT signing bonuses (until 'the checks in their checkbooks run out').

 

[Brady2Moss]

Wow. You don't understand a thing do you?

They spend as much as any team does. It's just divided up differently. So their $123 million is evidently "cheaper" than other teams' $123 million?

I hope your parents make sure to teach you that just because you have checks remaining in your checkbook, it doesn't mean you still have money in your account because you don't understand the first thing about economics.

Evidently, you never heard of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Mayo. In your mind, only Brady has been given a big contract.

Just look at the plights of Baltimore and Pittsburgh right now. How much can your Redskins or Jets spend this offseason????? You'd LOVE being a fan of those teams - - they give out GREAT signing bonuses (until 'the checks in their checkbooks run out').

What a garbage post I spent numerous occasions explaining what my definition of cheap is in relation to the patriots and how I don't want to be the Redskins. Maybe your parents should teach you how to read.

Orly I have a biology and economics degree from a top 15 university and I know nothing about economics

 

[Ring 6]

I haven't read the whole thread. I'm sure andy has done a fine job of explaining this issues, as he has done so many times in the past.

I have a couple of comments.

1) There is management and there are the players. The teams that pay the lowest percentage of the cap to the players are the cheap teams. Those teams have many millions left in the cap at year's end. Kraft is not cheap. The patriots are not cheap.

2) There are several allocation issues. One philsophy is stars and JAGs. Give almost all your money to your top players, and hope the rest do OK. While we are getting MUCH more top heavy than we used to be, the patriots like the middle level players to be paid relatively well.

3) Another allocation issue involves units on the squad. The stars are the exceptions. However, the team tries not to pay one unit a huge portion of the cap money. Of course, timing is everything. For example, since our running backs are rookie contracts, we have a huge bargain there.

4) Another allocation issue involves free agents vs. your own players. Some teams are almost never active in the beginning of free agency, prefering to re-sign their own. This has been the general patriot practice; and yes the team wanted to sign Welker.

5) Another aspect of having money for the middle and end of the roster is the ability to able to take chances (Cannon, Dennard and others). The patriots have also gotten solid production from older players for a 1-3 years at a quite reasonable price.

6) This year, I expected/wanted the patriots to resign their own top 7 free agents, knowing that we would likely lose Thomas. We'll see where we are in a few weeks, with decisions still to be made on Lloyd, Edelman and Vollmer. Wilson was a huge patriot type signing, as was Washington and Svitek. Abraham and Freeney would be also. Jones was a patriot type signing if he were an addition to what we had, or as an upgrade to Edelman or to Branch.

A) Thanks for the complement
B) Your comments took me thinking in a different direction regarding keeping your own vs signing Free Agents.
Some teams are out there competing for the highest priced biggest name FAs every year, having a 'missing piece' philosophy. (Those teams never win and end up in the same spot again, but that wasnt my point) Those teams are looking because they either cannot develop or cannot retain their own high priced guys.
One unnoticed aspect of the Patriots is that they never lose a player they don't want to. And by don't want to that includes that they don't feel is worth the money they ask, or get elsewhere.
When is the last time the Patriots wanted to keep a top player that they valued and lost him. Welker doesn't really count because it appears the Patriots really did not go hard after him, and he still wanted them to match. Talib took a prove it contract that 25 teams would have given him, and he took it here. Players like playing here, so players stay here. That, the need and room for high priced players, probably has more to do with what happens in FA than a different view of the market.

 

[Ring 6]

What a garbage post I spent numerous occasions explaining what my definition of cheap is in relation to the patriots and how I don't want to be the Redskins. Maybe your parents should teach you how to read.

Orly I have a biology and economics degree from a top 15 university and I know nothing about economics

You cannot call the team cheap, and then when proved wrong make up your own definition of cheap. Well, you can but you look like a buffoon.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You cannot call the team cheap, and then when proved wrong make up your own definition of cheap. Well, you can but you look like a buffoon.

Stated my definition before I was "proved" wrong my first post in here acknowledged your hammer of proof that they spend to the cap.

What's with the posters here resulting to personal insults right away? I only use them after being berated by posters such as yourself for multiple posts. I remember I called you a name and you **** your pants after having hurled insults at me post after post.

Really hilarious.

 

[Ivan]

The first part of this is true.

The 2nd part, not exactly. If they always "lowball" players they would never sign anybody. They are, however, disciplined in sticking to what they believe players are worth -- that's smart, not cheap.

I actually agree with the way the Patriots manage things financially, for the most part, but they can be real ballbusters and have a history of offering less, and players have talked about that for years. I agree they set a value and stick to it, i just think their bar is almost always under market value and getting people to sign comes from their success and the opportunity to win and play for a really good team. Even the deals for guys like Mayo, Gronk, and Hernandez are team friendly, which is something they excel at.

Most of the time Belichick is right about when to keep and cut players, but sometimes he gets stuck on their top players making market contracts, and we saw that with Law, Branch, Seymour, Vinatieri, and Samuel, and will probably see it with Spikes in the near future. They are great at getting most of their key players, but sometimes they could go the extra mile with their best players and be much better off and not have to expend resources trying to replace your playmakers.You go the extra million and save the picks and misses trying to fill that hole. Samuel is a great example of this. he wanted big money, but they would have been better off paying him and using all the resources they wasted trying to fill his shoes on other needs, I guarantee they spent much more capital trying to replace him than they would have used by just cutting a deal.

 

[Ring 6]

Where do you read they are actively pursuing him?

NFL.com and this board.

I didn't even want Arrington back for that much he is overpaid.

BB disagrees, but he did what you asked and signed another corner.

And anyway the fact that you list all the wasted picks on corners is making my point they suck at drafting them, you need to pay the piper in free agency then or be left with a hole at the position.

No your argument was they have done nothing about it. Surely you can understand that if you are drafting a position you do not spend your FA money there too. Well maybe you don't because you want a 5mill guy at every position under your 250mill cap.

This year they will be ok if Talib is healthy for 16 games and the playoffs, if not they are screwed because Arrington goes outside and he is toast then.

They drafted a starter last year. They drafted a corner #33 the year before who has been injured.
They signed one of the top corners on the market. They signed a corner for 4/16miill.
And your answer is if they have injuries they are screwed.
What team isn't and what is your solution? A 5mill a year 4th corner?

All you talk about is what they did 6 years ago I do not care they haven't won anything since then.

I talk about what they have done since BB was here.You were the one who set the timeframe as since 2007. I responded to since 2007.

2 AFCChampionships
The most reg season wins in the NFL
5 playoff wins
5 AFCE Championships
is winning nothing?

Also trading for Welker and Moss 6 years ago means nothing to todays team that has a hole at wide receiver and further proves they can't draft wide receivers and since Moss was traded have had a need at outside receiver that they cannot fill through the draft or free agency.

They haven't finished this off-season. You are talking about what 'they have done' and what they have done at WR was very good.
Not drafting a top WR because you didn't need to spend a #1 on a WR, and have spend only 1 #2 in that entire time is not 'cant draft them' but again that is a fact, so you either donlt understand it or dismiss it.

I've acknowledged they keep their own and they have no wr or cb or pass rusher aside from maybe Dennard and Chandler Jones to keep. Wanna know why? Because they suck really really bad at drafting corners and pass rushers.

What is your point? McCourty was drafted as a corner and Dennard was too. Sounds like they don't suck so bad. Chandler Jones was drafted as a pass rusher, the first time they have used a 1 (and only use 1 #2) at that spot under BB, so how is one good pick out of 1 sucking?

I know how FA works, you think you are the only person that knows how anything works? They had 25 million to spend and could have had anyone they wanted.

No I think a lot of people know, but you are not one of them.

Finally, snap of a finger? They've been rebuilding since 2008. I didn't know 5 years was how long it took to snap a finger. What a joke.

And they had the #1 offense and #9 defense last year.
And cumulatively from 2008-now they have the #1 offense and #4 defense in the NFL.
You talk like its the Browns.
Please tell me being #1 offense and #4 defense while rebuilding and winning the most games in the NFL is a terrible job.

Let's agree to disagree if they lose again in the playoffs due to a lack of pass rush, cb depth, or lack of competent receivers please do me the courtesy of not telling me I'm stupid.

Oh no, you are stupid. They are very likely to lose again in the playoffs. Only 1 team of out 32 won't. Thats about a 3% chance.
You have just said that if a team doesn't do what you call for and then don't hit the 3% chance of winning the SB, you were right and if they did what you said it was a lock. Yes, you are stupid.
Good night. Please next time I respond to you remind me you are the "2" that says nothing of value not the "to" that has cogent thoughts, so I don't mix you up and end up having another attempt at intelligently discussing something with someone who isn't capable of it.

 

[shmessy]

Wait are you actually serious I said they spend to the cap that means I'm acting like they pocket the difference? Ivan was able to better put in words what I meant, they are cheap to individual negotiations.

That makes ZERO sense.

Have someone explain to you that, if they spend to the cap, and don't overload it to just a few top players, that means they are being MORE GENEROUS to the bottom of the roster (not to mention paying more than any other team to PS players - - several of whom were making far in excess of regualr PS money last year). Those are "individual negotiations" too - - or didn't you know that?

The best NFL team FO's today all know that your chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Someday it may dawn on you that doing it this way results in superior depth and late season won-loss records - - the best over the past 12 years.

 

[Brady2Moss]

That makes ZERO sense.

Have someone explain to you that, if they spend to the cap, and don't overload it to just a few top players, that means they are being MORE GENEROUS to the bottom of the roster (not to mention paying more than any other team to PS players - - several of whom were making far in excess of regualr PS money last year). Those are "individual negotiations" too - - or didn't you know that?

The best NFL team FO's today all know that your chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Someday it may dawn on you that doing it this way results in superior depth and late season won-loss records - - the best over the past 12 years.

I understand they spend to the cap. Said that multiple times. They are cheap in individual negotiations and on bringing in top end talent. This is really tiresome, so I will agree I am stupid spending on extra on bottom feeders is better than spending more on top end talent. You guys win I have nooo understanding that 123=123.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I am trying to understand your point B2M to see if there is something in there I can get my arms around, but I just don't see it. If you are generous with a free agent, you necessarily are "cheap" with others. There is no way around it. It is a limited pot. Every team is "cheap" in this sense.

I really don't get the point. I guess you are saying you want a higher concentration of cap money spent on fewer players. But are you even sure the Patriots are different from any other team? I am not. You could make a list of the top 20 players on each team by cap hit and rank the teams by high to low in terms of who has the highest concentration of cap hit in those top twenty. Is it your argument the Patriots would be low on that list? I don't know if that's right, but I bet they are about average.

To me, football is a team game. In the national parity league, teams will find your weak link. My MO as a Front Office guy would be to spend highly on individual players only once I felt I had done enough to cover any weak links as best I could. The exception would be the quarterback position, where I might spend there first for the right guy and then do the best I could elsewhere.

Also, you can only deal with what is out there. You might have a need where a $4 million linebacker is perfect in terms of what you need and how much you have to spend. If the only guys in FA are guys you value at $1 million and $7 million, you have to do the best you can.

 

[JackBauer]

I am trying to understand your point B2M to see if there is something in there I can get my arms around, but I just don't see it.

You need to huff some glue, eat some cat food, and drink a beer. Eventually it'll come.