Cap vs cash: Are the Patriots cheap?

[raduray]

This has probably been discussed before, but I keep hearing that the Patriots ownership is cheap with regards to the players compared to other franchises.

Now I think I understand the difference between accrual and chash accounting, but as that applies to capology, don’t cap and cash numbers aggregated over a moving multi year average match up and have to total more than 95% of that multi-year aggregated cap?

Given that, how can owners cheap out on player salaries over that four year period?

 

[Pape]

I don't think they are cheap

I do think that they are very disciplined when it comes to financials... That they allocate resources for certain position groups, and they rarely vary from those position caps...

Whats usually missing from the Patriots contracts vs the way other team do it are the EGO-numbers... thats the way I see it...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This has probably been discussed before, but I keep hearing that the Patriots ownership is cheap with regards to the players compared to other franchises.

Now I think I understand the difference between accrual and chash accounting, but as that applies to capology, don’t cap and cash numbers aggregated over a moving multi year average match up and have to total more than 95% of that multi-year aggregated cap?

Given that, how can owners cheap out on player salaries over that four year period?

The short version is that salary hits the cap the year it's paid, but signing bonuses are prorated. Thus, you can have a binge in FA one year and have huge outlays that year and then much smaller ones in future years. Also, if you cut a player early, the extra signing bonus hits the cap as dead money, reducing the money you can spend that year but freeing up future dollars.

Most importantly, though, every team gets the same amount of money. Unless an owner deliberately chooses to pocket some of it (by not rolling over excess cap space), they eventually all have to spend almost exactly the same amount of money. Kraft has always rolled over the excess.

 

[slash83]

If they don’t bring in legitimate talent next year, I’m talking about Higgins level talent after what we’ve been witnessing so far I. Terms of the gap of talent every week we’re seeing, it’s fair to say Kraft don’t give a rats ass about legitimately competing, him and Bill.

They’re loaded with cash next few years, enough is enough this team is starved for offensive talent. Thorton isn’t the answer, Strange sucks, you obviously can’t draft talent so go frekin pay for it.

 

[archstanton543]

Bill the GM is willing to spend money. It's just who he's spending money on.

 

[slifersd]

A lot of the needs on this roster isn't easy to address via free agency. We need a top shelf QB and receiver, but those guys never make it to open market. The players that do, come with question marks, like Nelson Aghlor. Belichick was plenty aggressive when he signed Aghlor and we hardly improved as a team because of it. Now, that's not saying Belichick shouldn't have done better in free agency, like maybe spend some money on some real offensive linemen. But the key to getting this team to the next level has to be draft and trades imo

 

[borg]

If they don’t bring in legitimate talent next year, I’m talking about Higgins level talent after what we’ve been witnessing so far I. Terms of the gap of talent every week we’re seeing, it’s fair to say Kraft don’t give a rats ass about legitimately competing, him and Bill.

They’re loaded with cash next few years, enough is enough this team is starved for offensive talent. Thorton isn’t the answer, Strange sucks, you obviously can’t draft talent so go frekin pay for it.

The great unknowns and hidden realities that rarely get discussed when dreaming about Free Agency glory...

1) Free agents have a say on where they land and many may view employment in the Boston area as a "hell no!"
2) Free agent pass catchers may view Mac Jones as weak sauce with a pop-gun arm incapable of elevating their stats and thus hinder their future earning power.
3) Quality free agents seeking "win now" opportunities will seek viable contenders long before considering NE in its current state.
4) Free agents may view Belichick as a short timer due to age, his Shula quest, and abysmal recent job performance.....all reasons that may lead to possible impending organizational upheaval.
5) Talented free agents that don't get resigned by their previous teams often don't get resigned for a reason. In an era when teams can manipulate cap space with ease, why is team X letting this "talent" walk?
Holes in their game, bad attitude, disguised health issues, etc.....?
Hitting on a Judon is the goal. Winding up with an Agholor, a Jonnu or a Juju Smith is more often the result, especially of late in Foxborough.

Back in the glory era, Bill would supplement his team with disgruntled impact stars (who often reworked contracts) via the trade market because players wanted to perform on an ascending / playoff bound team with a bona fide QB in order to secure a ring and raise their future value. And Bill was successful buying that one missing piece to solidify his playoff ready team.

Bill's 2022 foray in the free agent market clearly demonstrated NE no longer possessed the draw it once had in the Brady era. And despite being flush with Kraft bucks, Bill was reduced to shopping at the overpriced B list weapons store and bought more duds than studs.

Free agency is for supplementing, not building.
Unfortunately, 1st round drafting follies like Harry, and overreaches like Mac and Strange continue to impede the rebuild that is now in Year 4.

 

[archstanton543]

Free agency is for supplementing, not building.
Unfortunately, 1st round drafting follies like Harry, and overreaches like Mac and Strange continue to impede the rebuild that is now in Year 4.

How is Mac and overreach? The Pats didn't trade up to get him and he's not a second or third round talent coming out of college.

 

[borg]

How is Mac and overreach? The Pats didn't trade up to get him and he's not a second or third round talent coming out of college.

An athletically challenged QB who possessed zero tools to elevate an NFL offense is the hallmark of a backup QB and worthy of a mid round grade at best.

His scouting report was dead-on:

Athletically limited
Lacks arm strength
Low ceiling

 

[RIpats88]

An athletically challenged QB who possessed zero tools to elevate an NFL offense is the hallmark of a backup QB and worthy of a mid round grade at best.

His scouting report was dead-on:

Athletically limited
Lacks arm strength
Low ceiling

Who else should they have drafted? Imagine if they didn't draft a QB and we were stuck with cam Newton again?

 

[RIpats88]

To put it simply, yes pats are cheap when it comes to offense. When it comes to defense or special teams bill is willing to pay.

Wouldn't pay Meyers, wouldn't pay Hopkins, instead settled for juju because of (value). Signed a bunch of nobodies to the OL.

Well this is what you get when you go for "value" on offense than talent

 

[Rob0729]

I don’t think they are cheap. I just think Belichick is stuck on his value system and basically giving each player and position a value and won’t spend more of it. The theory is a way not to be competitive year after year rather than contend for a short period of time and flame out like the Giants did. The thing is with the cap continuing to grow like it is and the way to manipulate the cap with voidable years, that is less of an issue.

I think Kraft would spend whatever it took to make this team a perineal contender. The more competitive this team is, the more money he makes. If we return to the ”success” of the early 90s, it will hurt Kraft’s pocketbook more than spending on talent. Especially now that he is trying to make the Patriots the favorite team of other countries like Germany.

 

[borg]

Who else should they have drafted? Imagine if they didn't draft a QB and we were stuck with cam Newton again?

No question Bill put the organization in a difficult position with so many questionable decisions in recent years including a lack of a viable succession plan at QB.
Sadly, he backed the organization into a desperate corner and felt compelled to take a 1st round flyer on a QB that many believed lacked sufficient physical tools to succeed at the NFL level. (they were right)
And Bill didn't just whiff on Mac, he went right back to the "physically unimpressive" well the next year and drafted unathletic/weak armed Zappe as well.
Worst QB room in the NFL

It can be argued Bill should have simply gone to the free agency market and purchased a short-term vet QB who actually had the ability to lead some semblance of a passing attack unlike his Cam Newton malpractice.

Regardless, the team is back to square one IMO and I have little doubt most in the locker room agree, including the coaching staff.

 

[archstanton543]

No question Bill put the organization in a difficult position with so many questionable decisions in recent years including a lack of a viable succession plan at QB.
Sadly, he backed the organization into a desperate corner and felt compelled to take a 1st round flyer on a QB that many believed lacked sufficient physical tools to succeed at the NFL level. (they were right)
And Bill didn't just whiff on Mac, he went right back to the "physically unimpressive" well the next year and drafted unathletic/weak armed Zappe as well.

"First round flyer"? Mac won the national championship with Alabama and was widely considered to be a first round pick.

You really shouldn't drink this early in the morning.

 

[borg]

"First round flyer"? Mac won the national championship with Alabama

BFD
Georgia national champion Stetson Bennet went in the 4th
Probably a reach as well

and was widely considered to be a first round pick.

They were wrong.

You really shouldn't drink this early in the morning.

Yeah...."Mac is great"....I'm the one who must be drunk

I have to say, I admire your Mac loyalty.
Mac is the hill you choose to die on
Good luck with that

 

[archstanton543]

BFD
Georgia national champion Stetson Bennet went in the 4th
Probably a reach as well


They were wrong.


Yeah...."Mac is great"....I'm the one who must be drunk

I have to say, I admire your Mac loyalty.
Mac is the hill you choose to die on
Good luck with that

If I had a dollar for every first round QB that doesn't work out in the NFL, I'd be a rich man. You can whine all you want but Mac Jones was/is a first round talent.

 

[borg]

If I had a dollar for every first round QB that doesn't work out in the NFL, I'd be a rich man. You can whine all you want but Mac Jones was/is a first round talent.

20
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Note: Mac has scored 21 pts for the other teams in '23

Listen
I'm not greedy
I'd be content to see just one Mac 1st quarter TD this season from the 1st round talent.

A better value related discussion would be:
If you put Mac on the trade market now, what could you get for him?

A 4th plus a special teamer?
Conditional 3rd maybe

 

[archstanton543]

20
17
13
3
----
53

Note: Mac has scored 21 pts for the other teams in '23

Listen
I'm not greedy
I'd be content to see just one Mac 1st quarter TD this season from the 1st round talent.

A better value related discussion would be:
If you put Mac on the trade market now, what could you get for him?

A 4th plus a special teamer?
Conditional 3rd maybe

Second rounder easily. Depending on the team, you might get a first.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think Kraft would spend whatever it took to make this team a perineal contender.

The word you're looking for is perennial.

Perineal is a more accurate descriptor of the offense yesterday.

 

[Rob0729]

The word you're looking for is perennial.

Perineal is a more accurate descriptor of the offense yesterday.

Yeah, it was the autocorrect that changed it to it when I initially misspelled it. Didn't catch it because it was in the morning.