Jets on way to implosion

[Nikolai]

More fun

 

[Patriots2001]

What blew me away was Ryan's press conference saying he thought of benching Sanchez.I am sure that will not help his confidence going against the Steelers next week..

 

[Wolfpack]

Earliest Patriots can clinch the #1 seed is Week 16.

Patriots beat Packers (home)
Patriots beat Dolphins (home)
Jets lose to Steelers (away)

Therefore, rooting for the Steelers is without a doubt in the BEST interest of the Patriots. The Patriots can not clinch the #1 seed any earlier than Week 16 and the Jets losing next week gives them the easiest path to doing so.

Yes but if the Patriots lose 1 of their next 2 and the Steelers keep winning, then the Pats won't have clinched #1 going into week 17. I'm stading by my statements that (A) I hate the Steelers and don't even hate the Jets (they are too irrelevant to hate) and (B) When two teams are playing each other and I want them both to lose, my general rule is to root for the team with the lower record to win.

 

[Wolfpack]

Why can't I compare one QB in the NFL to another? You said Sanchez only won in the playoffs because of his run game and the team around him, cheapening his accomplishment of winning in the playoffs. I pointed out that Brady certainly needed plenty of help in winning his playoff games as a first timer as well. Winning in the playoffs at all is impressive, and Sanchez ended up with a 92.7 passer rating in those 3 games. Brady was gritty as hell and came up huge when we needed him in 2001, but mustered a 77.3 passer rating, and only out gained Sanchez by 33 yards. I don't think Sanchez's career is going to come anywhere close to Brady's, but to act like he sucks and there is no chance for him to be a decent NFL QB is ignoring a lot of circumstantial evidence.

If you isolate each player based solely on their first year as a starter, here's the difference between Sanchez and Brady: Sanchez is a guy you don't want to have to count on late in the game. If the team was playing well, he was certainly able to take snaps and hand the ball off. But if you're trailing or it's a tie game late, or you're in overtime, that was where Brady excelled and Sanchez fell far, far short.

There is literally not a single game in 2009 where the Jets were trailing or tied with 10 minutes or less left in the game that they went on to win. IIRC, the Pats had 3 or 4 such games during the 2001 regular season, plus the Divisional game against the Raiders plus the Super Bowl against the Rams.

Now I'm going to be fair to the guy and say he's certainly got a few of those comebacks this year. But overall he's had a less-than-stellar sophomore season.

 

[TomPatriot]

The drops excuse doesnt work, because Sean Smith dropped more Ints than Jets receivers dropped combined. Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped.
3 late wins were against poor teams that would have been put away if Sanchez had played well to begin with.
Sanchez is completing 53.3% of his passes. 53.3. Feel free to show me what 2nd year QB in this era completed 53.3% of his passes and the jury was still out. Accuracy is one of the most important aspects of QB play and there is simply no arguing his accuracy is horrendous. The other is decision making which is also horrendous.
Sanchez ranks 29th in completion percentage.
He is 28th in QB rating at a pathetic 74.2
His team has scored ZERO TDS in 4 games out of 13.
He has lost 3 games where the opponent scored 9,9 and 10.
All of this with the 5th ranked run offense. (He has also thrown the 8th most passes, more than Brady, more than Rivers, so you cant say they run and dont give him a chance to win)
I dont know where you see improvement. His comp % AND ypa are lower this year than last.

As I said at the beginning, if you want to show me Sanchez can be good show me the good QB that by his 2nd year was putting up 17-44 and no TDs and 4 TD-less games in less than a full season. Then I will reconsider.
There has not been a good QB that has been this bad after 28 starts in memory.

First, the guy just turned 24 and is a second year player. He was sacked six times yesterday and had at least 4 drops, including one for a TD. If you watched yesterday's Jest game you'd get my meaning.

Of the three poor teams, one is the Texans who are not bad and one is the Browns who whipped us.

"Sean Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped?" Where did you get this? I only saw one Smith drop one easy pick and that was in the first quarter. DBs drop picks all the time; WRs get paid to catch the ball.

Since when does percentage completions and QB rating matter so much? As Belichick says, points matter. Using this year's QB rating, Matt Cassel and David Garrard are better than Peyton and Eli Manning. Do you buy that? In 2002, his third year in the NFL Tom Brady's passer rating was 76 or lower in 7 of the 16 games he started. Drew Brees had a 67.5 passer rating in his third year in the NFL. Who thinks he is a bad QB now?

We can't tell how Sanchez is going to be as an NFL QB in less than two seasons. He might wash out like Leinhart or muddle along like Palmer or he might step up like Brees. It's too soon to tell.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Yes but if the Patriots lose 1 of their next 2 and the Steelers keep winning, then the Pats won't have clinched #1 going into week 17. I'm stading by my statements that (A) I hate the Steelers and don't even hate the Jets (they are too irrelevant to hate) and (B) When two teams are playing each other and I want them both to lose, my general rule is to root for the team with the lower record to win.

Good philosophy!

 

[Deus Irae]

First, the guy just turned 24 and is a second year player. He was sacked six times yesterday and had at least 4 drops, including one for a TD. If you watched yesterday's Jest game you'd get my meaning.

Of the three poor teams, one is the Texans who are not bad and one is the Browns who whipped us.

"Sean Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped?" Where did you get this? I only saw one Smith drop one easy pick and that was in the first quarter. DBs drop picks all the time; WRs get paid to catch the ball.

From a New Jersey site:

Even Dolphins cornerback Sean Smith tried his absolute hardest to help Sanchez and the Jets steal this game. The second-year product from Utah should have intercepted at least one Sanchez pass, but in reality, it likely should have been three Sanchez passes. Smith's inability to haul in even one of the three sure interceptions kept drives alive and gave Sanchez second chances that he eventually could do nothing with.

Mark Sanchez gets no offensive help in loss | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

That's a New Jersey site saying 3 dropped picks by Smith alone. Pointing to the drops while ignoring the dropped picks is completely disingenuous.

Since when does percentage completions and QB rating matter so much? As Belichick says, points matter. Using this year's QB rating, Matt Cassel and David Garrard are better than Peyton and Eli Manning. Do you buy that? In 2002, his third year in the NFL Tom Brady's passer rating was 76 or lower in 7 of the 16 games he started. Drew Brees had a 67.5 passer rating in his third year in the NFL. Who thinks he is a bad QB now?

This has already been addressed. However, if "Points matter" is going to be your mantra, note that Sanchez and the Jets have failed to score a TD in 4 games already this season, finishing games with 9,0,3 and 6 points.

We can't tell how Sanchez is going to be as an NFL QB in less than two seasons. He might wash out like Leinhart or muddle along like Palmer or he might step up like Brees. It's too soon to tell.

He sucks now. He sucked even more last year. There's no question that at least some of the improvement needs to be credited to improved players around him in the passing game, particularly Tomlinson, who's 49 catches leads the team (Greene also has 13 catches this year). Those are high percentage passes, and last year's running back trio of Greene/Washington/Jones totaled only 25 catches combined, so Sanchez' completion percentage should be considered skewed up in comparison, yet he's completing a lower percentage of passes so far this year than last:

2009: 53.8%
2010: 53.3%

They generally give a draft 3 years before giving it a full evaluation. I think Sanchez deserves that 3rd year, especially because he came out of college a year earlier than he should have. But his first 2 seasons haven't been at all promising.

 

[Ring 6]

First, the guy just turned 24 and is a second year player. He was sacked six times yesterday and had at least 4 drops, including one for a TD. If you watched yesterday's Jest game you'd get my meaning.

In the NFL you dont get points because of your age.
My point is that after an off-season pointing out that most bad rookie QBs go on to bad careers, I am now pointing out that even more QBs who are still bad deep into their 2nd year have bad careers.
If you watched yesterdays game you would have seen them score zero offensive TDs and had at least 5 easy Ints dropped too. Pkenty of excuse on both sides.

Of the three poor teams, one is the Texans who are not bad and one is the Browns who whipped us.

And Sanchez poor play let both of those teams back in the game too.
What is your point?

"Sean Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped?" Where did you get this? I only saw one Smith drop one easy pick and that was in the first quarter. DBs drop picks all the time; WRs get paid to catch the ball.

I got it because it happened.

Since when does percentage completions and QB rating matter so much? As Belichick says, points matter.

And he has led his team to zero offensive TDs 4 times this year.

Using this year's QB rating, Matt Cassel and David Garrard are better than Peyton and Eli Manning. Do you buy that? In 2002, his third year in the NFL Tom Brady's passer rating was 76 or lower in 7 of the 16 games he started. Drew Brees had a 67.5 passer rating in his third year in the NFL. Who thinks he is a bad QB now?

Wait I thought you said passer rating doesnt matter???????

We can't tell how Sanchez is going to be as an NFL QB in less than two seasons. He might wash out like Leinhart or muddle along like Palmer or he might step up like Brees. It's too soon to tell.

We know what he is now, and that is terrible. I'm not attempting to predict the future. I am saying he is terrible.
Its easy to see that the odds are stacked heavily against him, because Ive yet to find a QB play this bad for his first 2 years and become good. (And Brees was better his first 2 years on a terrible team)

 

[Metaphors]

Yes but if the Patriots lose 1 of their next 2 and the Steelers keep winning, then the Pats won't have clinched #1 going into week 17. I'm stading by my statements that (A) I hate the Steelers and don't even hate the Jets (they are too irrelevant to hate) and (B) When two teams are playing each other and I want them both to lose, my general rule is to root for the team with the lower record to win.

Something to think about...

If the Jets lose to the Steelers and the Bears while beating the Bills, they will finish 10-6 with an 8-4 conference record. That could put them in competition for a playoff spot with KC, SD and JAX (with IND winning the South). The Jets have a better conference record than KC but KC could still win the West. Regardless, I believe the Jets lose the SOV tiebreaker to both SD and JAX.

If the Jets miss the playoffs after starting 9-2, the team could be devastated with the shockwaves lasting for years. Some key positions are getting older, there are a good number of FAs to re-sign and the new CBA will almost certainly contain a cap that will make this next offseason difficult for them. If Rex then gets off to a poor start in 2011 (they will have the AFC South, SD or KC, and BAL on the schedule...with early games against the Pats and Fins likely), he could be done. That could guarantee the East goes through Foxboro until Brady retires.

If the Jets beat the Steelers, the first domino in that above scenario won't fall. The potential value of playing the Steelers at home in the AFCC game this year (assuming the Pats don't earn that anyway and both teams get that far) doesn't come close to the possibility of seeing a division rival circle the drain.

 

[ATippett56]

First, the guy just turned 24 and is a second year player. He was sacked six times yesterday and had at least 4 drops, including one for a TD. If you watched yesterday's Jest game you'd get my meaning.

Are you a Sanchez apologist? Sanchez sucks!

Of the three poor teams, one is the Texans who are not bad and one is the Browns who whipped us.

What does the Texans have to do with the Patriots this season?

"Sean Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped?" Where did you get this? I only saw one Smith drop one easy pick and that was in the first quarter. DBs drop picks all the time; WRs get paid to catch the ball.

Sean Smith had three opportunities to intercept the ball. Stop making excuses for Sanchez.

Since when does percentage completions and QB rating matter so much? As Belichick says, points matter. Using this year's QB rating, Matt Cassel and David Garrard are better than Peyton and Eli Manning. Do you buy that? In 2002, his third year in the NFL Tom Brady's passer rating was 76 or lower in 7 of the 16 games he started. Drew Brees had a 67.5 passer rating in his third year in the NFL. Who thinks he is a bad QB now?

Tom Brady finished ninth in quarterback rating in 2002.

NFL Stats: by Player Position

We can't tell how Sanchez is going to be as an NFL QB in less than two seasons. He might wash out like Leinhart or muddle along like Palmer or he might step up like Brees. It's too soon to tell.

Who cares right now about next year? Sanchez has regressed as the season progressed with Sanchez playing his two out of three worst games of the season in the last two weeks. Right now, Sanchez is one of worst quarterbacks in the NFL

 

[Ring 6]

Something to think about...

If the Jets lose to the Steelers and the Bears while beating the Bills, they will finish 10-6 with an 8-4 conference record. That could put them in competition for a playoff spot with KC, SD and JAX (with IND winning the South). The Jets have a better conference record than KC but KC could still win the West. Regardless, I believe the Jets lose the SOV tiebreaker to both SD and JAX.

If the Jets miss the playoffs after starting 9-2, the team could be devastated with the shockwaves lasting for years. Some key positions are getting older, there are a good number of FAs to re-sign and the new CBA will almost certainly contain a cap that will make this next offseason difficult for them. If Rex then gets off to a poor start in 2011 (they will have the AFC South, SD or KC, and BAL on the schedule...with early games against the Pats and Fins likely), he could be done. That could guarantee the East goes through Foxboro until Brady retires.

If the Jets beat the Steelers, the first domino in that above scenario won't fall. The potential value of playing the Steelers at home in the AFCC game this year (assuming the Pats don't earn that anyway and both teams get that far) doesn't come close to the possibility of seeing a division rival circle the drain.

I''d have to think the chance of the East going through Foxboro is highest if Rex Ryan STAYS in NJ.

 

[reflexblue]

Remember years ago during the SB years when the Patriots played a team that team was never the same again. I think thats what they did to the Jests last week, BB and the Pats mind f***** Jabba and the Jests. They very well may not win another game the rest of the year.

 

[Ring 6]

Remember years ago during the SB years when the Patriots played a team that team was never the same again. I think thats what they did to the Jests last week, BB and the Pats mind f***** Jabba and the Jests. They very well may not win another game the rest of the year.

Part of the problem though is that what we did to their defense doesnt help the copycats because no one has a Brady.

 

[TomPatriot]

From a New Jersey site:



Mark Sanchez gets no offensive help in loss | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

That's a New Jersey site saying 3 dropped picks by Smith alone. Pointing to the drops while ignoring the dropped picks is completely disingenuous.



This has already been addressed. However, if "Points matter" is going to be your mantra, note that Sanchez and the Jets have failed to score a TD in 4 games already this season, finishing games with 9,0,3 and 6 points.



He sucks now. He sucked even more last year. There's no question that at least some of the improvement needs to be credited to improved players around him in the passing game, particularly Tomlinson, who's 49 catches leads the team (Greene also has 13 catches this year). Those are high percentage passes, and last year's running back trio of Greene/Washington/Jones totaled only 25 catches combined, so Sanchez' completion percentage should be considered skewed up in comparison, yet he's completing a lower percentage of passes so far this year than last:

2009: 53.8%
2010: 53.3%

They generally give a draft 3 years before giving it a full evaluation. I think Sanchez deserves that 3rd year, especially because he came out of college a year earlier than he should have. But his first 2 seasons haven't been at all promising.

First, 3 is not 5. Second, I don't care what some Jet idiot says on some Central NJ website, there weren't three easy or sure picks, there was one. No one is denying Sanchez played a bad game. But he didn't get much help either. He was sacked 6 times and most weren't coverage sacks. The Jets' vaunted, showboat wideouts puked.

Yes in the 4 games they scored 9, 0, 3, 6 and obviously that's not enough. They also scored 28, 31, 38, 29, 23, 24, 26, 30, 26 in the other 9 games. Points matter.

Again, who really cares about his completion percentage? It's as bad a stat as total yards allowed on defense.

We'll see how Sanchez does. He does a lot of things well. He sets in the pocket well, has a strong arm and tight spiral, runs well. He does some things less well, like spotting the spy and making dig-drag reads, keying the entire field instead of one spot against the cover two. I just think it is as foolish to say "Sanchez sucks!" at this point in his career as it is to think we are a lock for the SB.

 

[reflexblue]

Part of the problem though is that what we did to their defense doesnt help the copycats because no one has a Brady.

Back in the day it didn't seem to matter, just take the Rams after the SB were they ever the same again? I don't think they were, its a team/coach thing. It affected the whole team and staff, not just Offense or Defense

 

[Deus Irae]

First, 3 is not 5.

3 is not 1, either.

Second, I don't care what some Jet idiot says on some Central NJ website, there weren't three easy or sure picks, there was one.

You're arguing nothing more than your perception. That's fine for you, but it's no more valid than the 3 or 5 listed without tape.

No one is denying Sanchez played a bad game. But he didn't get much help either. He was sacked 6 times and most weren't coverage sacks. The Jets' vaunted, showboat wideouts puked.

Part of the reason he gets sacked is because he's slow to read defenses.

Yes in the 4 games they scored 9, 0, 3, 6 and obviously that's not enough. They also scored 28, 31, 38, 29, 23, 24, 26, 30, 26 in the other 9 games. Points matter.

That's a lousy argument. What's more, you know it is. Points are a final number, but they are not necessarily evidence of QB play.

Again, who really cares about his completion percentage? It's as bad a stat as total yards allowed on defense.

This argument is worse than "points matter". Incomplete passes kill drives. Of course completion percentage matters.

We'll see how Sanchez does. He does a lot of things well.

No, he doesn't.

has a strong arm

No, he doesn't.

I just think it is as foolish to say "Sanchez sucks!" at this point in his career as it is to think we are a lock for the SB.

He sucks. What's foolish is defending him with obviously crappy arguments.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

No one is denying Sanchez played a bad game.

Not true. One person is. The Head coach of the Jest. I wonder if he was watching a different game?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Three Jets fans went to go see Santa...






It just wasn't good timing.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Three Jets fans went to go see Santa...






It just wasn't good timing.

Joke works better with Eagle fans. Eagle fans hate Santa.

 

[Ring 6]

First, 3 is not 5. Second, I don't care what some Jet idiot says on some Central NJ website, there weren't three easy or sure picks, there was one. No one is denying Sanchez played a bad game. But he didn't get much help either. He was sacked 6 times and most weren't coverage sacks. The Jets' vaunted, showboat wideouts puked.

Yes in the 4 games they scored 9, 0, 3, 6 and obviously that's not enough. They also scored 28, 31, 38, 29, 23, 24, 26, 30, 26 in the other 9 games. Points matter.

Again, who really cares about his completion percentage? It's as bad a stat as total yards allowed on defense.

We'll see how Sanchez does. He does a lot of things well. He sets in the pocket well, has a strong arm and tight spiral, runs well. He does some things less well, like spotting the spy and making dig-drag reads, keying the entire field instead of one spot against the cover two. I just think it is as foolish to say "Sanchez sucks!" at this point in his career as it is to think we are a lock for the SB.

Did you watch the game?
Late in the game they replayed the dropped Ints, and right after that there was another. In any event, Im glad you dismiss it because it was only response to your excuse about drops. (Francesa said today he counted 2 Jet drops btw)
Completion percentage is a function of accuracy, which is a major weakness for Sanchez.
I have no idea what 'sets the pocket well' means. I think you just made it up. He does not have a strong arm.

It is more foolish to say that the QB in the bottom 5 statistically who has had 4 games without getting an offensive TD doesn't suck.

How do you grade his play this season?