Jets on way to implosion

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Jets defensive players not happy with Rex’s criticism | ProFootballTalk

Ellis has a point.

It is pretty impressive what the Jets did yesterday. The held Henne to a grand total of 5 completions forced three turnovers on defense. AND STILL LOST.

That's impressive.

 

[ATippett56]

Well, when you collect a team of egomaniac and then feed their egos, things fall apart quickly when things go bad especially when Rex calls out the defense for not being able to cover the offense's arses when they can't do anything right.

Quoting Gene Hackman from the movie Mississippi Burning: "Down here they say rattlesnakes don't commit suicide."

 

[TomPatriot]

How have his stats improved a lot? They have had 4 games without an offensive TD.
He stinks.
Do you know that Bradys completion percent in the worst 5 games you could find was about the same as Sanchez all season. Has Brady had 4 games in his CAREER with zero TDs? Snachez has 4 of 13 this year.

Its not one game, its a lot of games.

Sanchez is not Brady, and he's not a top NFL QB but Letsgopats36 is right. The jury is still out on Sanchez. He is better this year than last year and I've seen him quite a bit. I watched most of the Jest - Fish game yesterday and Holmes-Keller-Edwards dropped at least 4 balls an average NFL receiver should catch. Holmes dropped one in the end zone that Sanchez laid in there perfectly. How often does that happen to Brady?

Sanchez has led the Jets to three wins late in the fourth quarter, albeit against mediocre teams. I can't stand the guy but even with the turnovers, he didn't lose the game yesterday - the offensive line did; the Jest had no running game and it killed their offense.

 

[karguy85]

Ellis has a point.

It is pretty impressive what the Jets did yesterday. The held Henne to a grand total of 5 completions forced three turnovers on defense. AND STILL LOST.

That's impressive.

This is what happens when you have a big mouth that just wants attention as your coach. I figured it would happen at some point, just didn't think the inmates would be running the asylum so soon. Things are really spiraling out of control in New Jersey. Thats what I love about Bill, he takes care of everything in house.

 

[Ring 6]

Sanchez is not Brady, and he's not a top NFL QB but Letsgopats36 is right. The jury is still out on Sanchez. He is better this year than last year and I've seen him quite a bit. I watched most of the Jest - Fish game yesterday and Holmes-Keller-Edwards dropped at least 4 balls an average NFL receiver should catch. Holmes dropped one in the end zone that Sanchez laid in there perfectly. How often does that happen to Brady?

Sanchez has led the Jets to three wins late in the fourth quarter, albeit against mediocre teams. I can't stand the guy but even with the turnovers, he didn't lose the game yesterday - the offensive line did; the Jest had no running game and it killed their offense.

The drops excuse doesnt work, because Sean Smith dropped more Ints than Jets receivers dropped combined. Smith had 5 easy Ints that he dropped.
3 late wins were against poor teams that would have been put away if Sanchez had played well to begin with.
Sanchez is completing 53.3% of his passes. 53.3. Feel free to show me what 2nd year QB in this era completed 53.3% of his passes and the jury was still out. Accuracy is one of the most important aspects of QB play and there is simply no arguing his accuracy is horrendous. The other is decision making which is also horrendous.
Sanchez ranks 29th in completion percentage.
He is 28th in QB rating at a pathetic 74.2
His team has scored ZERO TDS in 4 games out of 13.
He has lost 3 games where the opponent scored 9,9 and 10.
All of this with the 5th ranked run offense. (He has also thrown the 8th most passes, more than Brady, more than Rivers, so you cant say they run and dont give him a chance to win)
I dont know where you see improvement. His comp % AND ypa are lower this year than last.

As I said at the beginning, if you want to show me Sanchez can be good show me the good QB that by his 2nd year was putting up 17-44 and no TDs and 4 TD-less games in less than a full season. Then I will reconsider.
There has not been a good QB that has been this bad after 28 starts in memory.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

How about the few passes Brady has fired directly into LBs hands the last couple weeks only to have them dropped, i.e. Urlacher a couple times on Sunday? Dropped Ints happen with every QB, from Brady to Vick to Sanchez. Don't know how you can just dismiss some of those drops from the Jets receivers yesterday. The Holmes drop was probably the worst I have seen all year, in the end zone, completely uncovered and with the ball on the money.

I hate the Jets as much as any of you, but to act like Sanchez has no potential or talent is ignorant.

 

[patchick]

As I said at the beginning, if you want to show me Sanchez can be good show me the good QB that by his 2nd year was putting up 17-44 and no TDs and 4 TD-less games in less than a full season. Then I will reconsider.
There has not been a good QB that has been this bad after 28 starts in memory.

I'm not a Sanchez believer either, but I do have a shining counterexample for you:

Drew Brees in 2003, his 3rd season in the league, put up an appalling 67.5 QB rating for the year. He was such a clear bust that he was benched in favor of Doug Flutie, and the Chargers spent the #4 overall pick on Rivers.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not a Sanchez believer either, but I do have a shining counterexample for you:

Drew Brees in 2003, his 3rd season in the league, put up an appalling 67.5 QB rating for the year. He was such a clear bust that he was benched in favor of Doug Flutie, and the Chargers spent the #4 overall pick on Rivers.

I dont know how shining it is. Brees completed 60% of his passes his first years starting and 57.8 that season, and was on an awful team.
He also has zero games where he failed to get his team in the end zone.
Sanchez would be benched for Flutie too at this point.
Brees #s and lack of failed games through his first 29 starts are substantially better than Sanchez.

 

[karguy85]

I'm not a Sanchez believer either, but I do have a shining counterexample for you:

Drew Brees in 2003, his 3rd season in the league, put up an appalling 67.5 QB rating for the year. He was such a clear bust that he was benched in favor of Doug Flutie, and the Chargers spent the #4 overall pick on Rivers.

Drew Brees never had a 53% completion percentage. Yes he had a bad year his second year starting and had a 57% completion percentage, but the year before he had over 60% and you could see the potential. Since then he never had a completion percentage under 60, let alone averaging around 53% for his career.

I just don't even see the potential with Sanchez. I hope the Jets stick with him for a while because I don't think he is even really a serviceable starter.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Chargers
Win vs 49ers
Win @ Bengals
Win @ Broncos

Jets
Lose @ Steelers
Lose @ Bears
Win vs Bills

These are the most likely scenarios for both teams, that would make them both 10-6 and according to a playoff simulator, the Jets would lose the tiebreaker at 10-6 and be out of playoffs.

NFL - Playoff Scenario Generator- Yahoo! Sports

If the Chargers win out, then they'll probably win their division. It's more likely, in that scenario, that the Jets and Chiefs are competing for a wildcard.

 

[WelshPat]

I'm not a Sanchez believer either, but I do have a shining counterexample for you:

Drew Brees in 2003, his 3rd season in the league, put up an appalling 67.5 QB rating for the year. He was such a clear bust that he was benched in favor of Doug Flutie, and the Chargers spent the #4 overall pick on Rivers.

But at least Brees had a lot of pressure to score, the Chargers were 31st in points allowed. Sanchez has one of the best Ds in the league

 

[Ring 6]

How about the few passes Brady has fired directly into LBs hands the last couple weeks only to have them dropped, i.e. Urlacher a couple times on Sunday? Dropped Ints happen with every QB, from Brady to Vick to Sanchez. Don't know how you can just dismiss some of those drops from the Jets receivers yesterday. The Holmes drop was probably the worst I have seen all year, in the end zone, completely uncovered and with the ball on the money.

I hate the Jets as much as any of you, but to act like Sanchez has no potential or talent is ignorant.

You are the one who used drops as an excuse. I just pointed out that a corner dropped more of Sanchez passes than his receivers did.
Did you see the dropped Ints. Because to compare them to tipped balls that Brady threw is way off base.

Sanchez is a bad QB. You seem to think he will become a good one. I dont know why you think that, because what I see is that the most critical components of QB play, accuracy, decision making, pocket awareness, are all tremendous weaknesses in him, and his arm strength is shaky at best.

What strengths do you see in Sanchez that overcome those pronounced weaknesses to make you think he will ever be good?

 

[LetsGoPats36]

But at least Brees had a lot of pressure to score, the Chargers were 31st in points allowed. Sanchez has one of the best Ds in the league

If every argument is going to get nitpicked with menial stats like this, than its going to get counter argued with the fact that Sanchez is playing in close, competitive games where passing efficiently will be harder to achieve and Brees was able to pick apart prevent D's as they were always getting blown out.

But thats not the point of the argument. Point of this argument is....

Sanchez is 24. This is his second year of starting. His yards per game are up, as are his touchdowns, his interceptions are down and his completion percentage has remained virtually the same. I believe he also has more wins this year than he did at this time last year.

 

[patchick]

I dont know how shining it is. Brees completed 60% of his passes his first years starting and 57.8 that season, and was on an awful team.
He also has zero games where he failed to get his team in the end zone.
Sanchez would be benched for Flutie too at this point.
Brees #s and lack of failed games through his first 29 starts are substantially better than Sanchez.

"Failed games" seems like a new stat invented specifically to put Sanchez in the worst possible light. Comparing apples to apples as much as possible -- his 2nd season as a starter (13 games) vs. Brees' 2nd season (11 games):

COMP/ATT % YDS AVG TD INT SCK
Sanchez 235/441 53% 2852 6.5 16 12 26
Brees 205/356 58% 2108 5.9 11 15 21

Pick 'em. 2 lousy performances. Brees completed more to his guys, but also a ton more to the other team (.042 INT% for Brees vs .027 for Sanchez).

Again, I am not a Sanchez believer and I agree that the idea that QBs often take years to develop is a bit of a myth. I'm just saying that a turnaround wouldn't be 100% unprecedented.

 

[Hoodie]

Throughout my life as a sports fan there have always been teams that I've hated. Montreal comes to mind. I hated them but I always respected them. I don't feel that way about the Jests. I hate them and I have NO respect.

 

[Ring 6]

"Failed games" seems like a new stat invented specifically to put Sanchez in the worst possible light. Comparing apples to apples as much as possible -- his 2nd season as a starter (13 games) vs. Brees' 2nd season (11 games):

COMP/ATT % YDS AVG TD INT SCK
Sanchez 235/441 53% 2852 6.5 16 12 26
Brees 205/356 58% 2108 5.9 11 15 21

Pick 'em. 2 lousy performances. Brees completed more to his guys, but also a ton more to the other team (.042 INT% for Brees vs .027 for Sanchez).

Again, I am not a Sanchez believer and I agree that the idea that QBs often take years to develop is a bit of a myth. I'm just saying that a turnaround wouldn't be 100% unprecedented.

Failed games is shorthand for a QB failing to get an offensive TD 4 times.
That is 100 times more pertinent than comparing cumulative stats and QB ratings. (Also Brees first season was much better than Sanchez, and you have to account for the team surrounding them)
I wasnt really looking for a statistical comparison, but you did find a reasonable one. Again, I think 4 games out of 13, and 2 in a row without an offensive TD overwhelms QB rating.

 

[ATippett56]

Sanchez is not Brady, and he's not a top NFL QB but Letsgopats36 is right. The jury is still out on Sanchez. He is better this year than last year and I've seen him quite a bit.

Yet Sanchez is the 28th rated passer in the NFL based upon quarterback rating:

NFL Stats: by Player Position

Yet Sanchez is the 29th rated passer in the NFL based upon completion percentage:

NFL Stats: by Player Position

If anything, Sanchez has regressed as the 2010 NFL season have progressed.

 

[Deus Irae]

If every argument is going to get nitpicked with menial stats like this, than its going to get counter argued with the fact that Sanchez is playing in close, competitive games where passing efficiently will be harder to achieve and Brees was able to pick apart prevent D's as they were always getting blown out.

But thats not the point of the argument. Point of this argument is....

Sanchez is 24. This is his second year of starting. His yards per game are up, as are his touchdowns, his interceptions are down and his completion percentage has remained virtually the same. I believe he also has more wins this year than he did at this time last year.

1.) Wins is a team stat.

2.) Sanchez started off playing pretty well. He's fallen apart since the team's bye.

3.) Sanchez, as I noted before (I don't recall which thread), has a better QB rating than only 3 quarterbacks with the minimum numbers: Favre (old, injured, done), Derek Anderson (sucks) and Clausen (Rookie, sucks).

4.) Sanchez' completion percentage (53.3%) is better than only Clausen and Anderson, and is about 4% lower than the man above him (Campbell, at 57.2%).

5.) For the five first games, Sanchez went without throwing an interception. He's now moved all the way up to a tie for 9th most in the NFL, with 12.

6.) 11 of his 13 games have seen him complete fewer than 60% of his passes, with 4 of 13 games having less than a 50% completion rate. This is despite Tomlinson being his #1 receiver as a running back coming out of the backfield.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

The kid's been better than last year, but that's pretty much by default given how abysmal he was then. If he wasn't a top 5 draft pick, he'd have been benched and his team would be looking to find a replacement. His draft status is buying him time. Perhaps it will buy him enough time to become a good NFL QB. As of right now, though, he still sucks.

 

[Ring 6]

If every argument is going to get nitpicked with menial stats like this, than its going to get counter argued with the fact that Sanchez is playing in close, competitive games where passing efficiently will be harder to achieve and Brees was able to pick apart prevent D's as they were always getting blown out.

But thats not the point of the argument. Point of this argument is....

Sanchez is 24. This is his second year of starting. His yards per game are up, as are his touchdowns, his interceptions are down and his completion percentage has remained virtually the same. I believe he also has more wins this year than he did at this time last year.

Yards per game is only up because attempts are up. YPA is down.
The completion percentage remaining the same is not something to be proud of, its is substantially subpar, to the extent that 2.8 ypc is subpar for a RB.
He has 4 games this year without an offensive TD.

I will ask again, what are the strengths you see in him that balance out all of the negatives? I do not get what you can see in this guy that has you touting him.

 

[ATippett56]

If every argument is going to get nitpicked with menial stats like this, than its going to get counter argued with the fact that Sanchez is playing in close, competitive games where passing efficiently will be harder to achieve and Brees was able to pick apart prevent D's as they were always getting blown out.

But thats not the point of the argument. Point of this argument is....

Sanchez is 24. This is his second year of starting. His yards per game are up, as are his touchdowns, his interceptions are down and his completion percentage has remained virtually the same. I believe he also has more wins this year than he did at this time last year.

His completion percentage is down this year and his yards per attempt are down this year with more offensive talent surrounding him.

Mark Sanchez, QB for the New York Jets at NFL.com

In the last two weeks, Sanchez has played two of his worst three games of the 2010 NFL season. Sanchez is starting to implode and he will struggle on the road against Pittsburgh and Chicago.

Mark Sanchez: Game Logs at NFL.com