I really miss WWW

[Deus Irae]

Fans of team support team in good and bad. Hardly a shocker now is it!

No.... idiots back a team regardless of actions. Fans with brains are capable of understanding that sometimes even their favorites make mistakes.

This is a football team. It's not your immediate family.

 

[Oswlek]

It was funny watching the usual suspects in the thread last night grasp at straws to try to make a point that Welker wasn't actually having a good game. It sucks that he's on the Broncos but hopefully Amendola can overcome his past and actually play a 16 game season.

He had a solid game, but this post from a smart friend over on the Planet sums up my assessment of last night.

Seriously, I don't know how anybody that has seen a lot of Welker wouldn't see it too. It's not like he isn't still quick, but the guy used to be like lightning. He's still able to find holes, but he relies more on guile than pure legs now.

Bear in mind, I have no axe to grind with the man. I will always respect Welker and am simply stating my opinion of how it looked and not trying to justify not signing him.

 

[Froob]

The Patriots are sitting on $13m+ in unused cap space with a completely unproven WR corps. They could have easily afforded to sign Welker and Amendola (who I really like and think is a more purely talented player than Welker, but he has to be on he field to prove it). Of course, at the time they were counting on Hernandez as a major part of the offense. But in hindsight - and even at the time - there was no reason not to throw a high bid at Welker.

In this case it's really hard to blame Welker and not the Patriots' front office.

Damn having both would have been something. I still don't understand why Welker's value on the open market is so low. Guy has such a huge impact on the game.

 

[Deus Irae]

$20mm in guarantees isn't the same thing as contract value. Total dollars he was asking for more than B2B tags, which was, frankly, ridiculous.

NE's FO gets a lot of guff for the same stuff every team does. Every successful team, anyway.

First, I was clear about the bonuses/guarantees part, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up as something different than full contract value, because that's something pretty obvious.

Second, total dollars was reportedly somewhere between $24m-$27m, and that would have been a very reasonable amount for a receiver with his production.

BB screwed up. Sugar coating it doesn't change what happened, and it doesn't turn a mistake into a great move.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Or if the Defense could have held a 80 yrd drive.....again. Amazing how guys reduce his time here to that singular play.

I DEFINITELY did not reduce his time here. That post was in response to an equally absurd post stating "He SHOULD'VE had 3 TD's.... if not for.......", as if we now basing his awesomeness on stuff that SHOULD have happened.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda arguments are ridiculous and work in reverse to. That SB certainly wasn't lost by WW, but the fact remains..... he COULD HAVE gone a long way to prevent that 80 yd drive. If you actually try to read the quotes instead of attempting to make up your own reality, it be easier for you to follow along.

WW did FAR MORE good here then bad...... and I loved every catch he made here and think that he had a special relationship with TB, but he had a certain value and the Patriots clearly would have preferred him to stay here, and offered what they thought was FAIR value for him. Turns out they were right, as pretty much what he accepted was in line for that. He ACCEPTED someone else's offer.

My whole premise was that him leaving was not just on the Patriots, WW had a HUGE say in it. The Patriots don't pay extra for sentimentality. It's that simple. BB never will. To say that I diminish his value here down to one play is just not true. But if someone is gonna use the "Shoulda, woulda, coulda" argument to point out why it was a mistake to let him go........... expect the same absurd argument in return justifying not overpaying to keep him here.

 

[resdubwhite]

No.... idiots back a team regardless of actions. Fans with brains are capable of understanding that sometimes even their favorites make mistakes.

This isn't Grantland. We really are just fans with typewriters (keyboards in this case)

The majority of people that come here spend their time rooting for the team.
Players are fleeting.
the team remains the constant in their lifes.

There are plenty of fans here saying the team made a mistake in letting him go but are hurt he went to a rival. I understand his reasons for going there. He's still chasing his ring.

This is a football team. It's not your immediate family.

For a lot of people their football team is like their family. Its not such a difficult thing to understand.

 

[Froob]

Or if the Defense could have held a 80 yrd drive.....again. Amazing how guys reduce his time here to that singular play.

In all fairness, defense only gave up 19 pts. That should have been more than enough to win that game. Offense lost both super bowls 42 & 46.

 

[Oswlek]

First, I was clear about the bonuses/guarantees part, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up as something different than full contract value, because that's something pretty obvious.

Second, total dollars was reportedly somewhere between $24m-$27m, and that would have been a very reasonable amount for a receiver with his production.

BB screwed up. Sugar coating it doesn't change what happened, and it doesn't turn a mistake into a great move.

Of course! I misread it, mea culpa. No need to be a jerk about it, though.

I'm not sugar coating anything, I'm looking at it from a perfectly reasonable perspective that differs from yours. :thumb:

 

[DarrylS]

Do not have the patience to read all 7 pages of this thread, but from what I understand WW and his agent overvalued the market, and the Patriots actually offered more than the Bronco's.. but his agent jumped on the Bronco offer prematurely.

Have heard Jonathan Kraft state this fact, we do not know all the inner machinations of how all this works.. but Jonathan does not have an ax to grind with Wes, not sure why he would lie about it.

Mr. Kraft and this team are not cheap.. seem to recollect that Wes turned down a significant offer prior to him being franchised, which his agent turned down.

There is more to this picture than meets the eye..

 

[mgteich]

What many here seem to be saying is that Welker just wasn't worth $2M more than Amendola. Folks here would rather have the $2M of cap room and Amendola. There is nothing more for me to say other than that I strongly disagree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course! I misread it, mea culpa. No need to be a jerk about it, though.

I wasn't trying to be. I was serious about not understanding. I thought you were thinking I'd missed something, and I had no idea what it could have been because bonus v. full deal seems obvious. My bad if I came across as bagging on you there.

I'm not sugar coating anything, I'm looking at it from a perfectly reasonable perspective that differs from yours. :thumb:

I don't consider it reasonable to defend what was essentially nothing more than inexcusably piss-poor behavior when you'd be killing every other team in the league over it. And let's not kid here, because all you people defending the Patriots on this (or at least the vast majority of you) would be killing 31 other teams had they done the same thing.

 

[TriplecHamp]

"fans" still calling the Welker/Amendola saga a "mistake" before week 1 is even complete.

logic?

not even once.

 

[BrickPat]

As beloved as WW was, this team WILL NOT OVERPAY a player for sentiments sake. It boggles my mind tha many of us haven't learned that by now. We all love WW, and its sad to him playing for someone else, but let's face it........ he's not an elite WR (which doesn't translate to non-productive).

Chad OchoCinco says howdy. By sentiment do you mean past production? The Pats had no problem inking that contract based on what that WR did with the Bengals. I guess production is only of value when it happens on other teams. Sounds silly, right? Exactly.

Not saying this applies to you but the selective memory and hypocrisy displayed by the fanbots is amazing.

 

[resdubwhite]

What many here seem to be saying is that Welker just wasn't worth $2M more than Amendola. Folks here would rather have the $2M of cap room and Amendola. There is nothing more for me to say other than that I strongly disagree.

This is before Amendola has even had the ball thrown to him in anger.

we'll know in the next few weeks if replacing Welker with Amendola was such a bad move.

 

[Brady2Gronk]

We havnt even seen Amendola play in a game yet so I will wait and see how the season plays out first. I would love to bump this thread when Amendola makes a game sealing catch in the super bowl though. Welker looked good as did Manning against a Ravens team that looked comically bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

What many here seem to be saying is that Welker just wasn't worth $2M more than Amendola. Folks here would rather have the $2M of cap room and Amendola. There is nothing more for me to say other than that I strongly disagree.

Hell, with the money they had available, they could have had both, and kept them away from Denver in the process. The Patriots could be fielding a WR corps with both Welker and Amendola, if the Patriots were looking to DA as a successor to WWW. Getting Mike Jenkins, Donald Jones and Adrian Wilson was just too important, though, apparently....

 

[Oswlek]

I don't consider it reasonable to defend what was essentially nothing more than inexcusably piss-poor behavior when you'd be killing every other team in the league over it. And let's not kid here, because all you people defending the Patriots on this (or at least the vast majority of you) would be killing 31 other teams had they done the same thing.

No, I would not. If the player was asking for more money in the first two years than it would cost to simply tag him twice - particularly when the biggest concern was whether he'd be worth the money in year 3 and 4 - I would rightly blame him or his agent.

If you want to give NE guff for not paying Was after 2010, I have no issues with it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Hell, with the money they had available, they could have had both, and kept them away from Denver in the process. The Patriots could be fielding a WR corps with both Welker and Amendola, if the Patriots were looking to DA as a successor to WWW. Having money to resign Devin McCourty, Nate Solder, and Rob Ninkovich, among others was just too important, though, apparently....

I think my version is slightly more accurate.

 

[Ring 6]

No.... idiots back a team regardless of actions. Fans with brains are capable of understanding that sometimes even their favorites make mistakes.

This is a football team. It's not your immediate family.

No idiots think that a football team should pay more than it wants to and that makes them 'better people'.

 

[hyperpat]

Wes had a generally good game and seems as elusive as ever.

The dropped punt was a fascinating moment, though. If the Broncs go on to lose a playoff game due to a key Welker drop (which we've seen before, unfortunately), the muffed punt in the first game of the season will be the stuff of art: An ominous foreshadowing worthy of Shakespeare.

'Course, if he catches the winning touchdown instead, you can forget the whole foreshadowing thing.