I really miss WWW

[Deus Irae]

No, I would not. If the player was asking for more money in the first two years than it would cost to simply tag him twice - particularly when the biggest concern was whether he'd be worth the money in year 3 and 4 - I would rightly blame him or his agent.

Given that it happens in most high end contracts, you must love tossing that blame around.

If you want to give NE guff for not paying Was after 2010, I have no issues with it.

They had several years to get it done. Instead, they decided to do what they'd done with Mankins and manipulate the CBA/cap situation. Generally playing hardball is one thing. This sort of crap is another. They need to learn that, sometimes, just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done.

If we're going to bag on players for holdouts when they've already got reasonable deals, we need to bag on teams for this sort of crap instead of celebrating it. To do otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Ring 6]

What many here seem to be saying is that Welker just wasn't worth $2M more than Amendola. Folks here would rather have the $2M of cap room and Amendola. There is nothing more for me to say other than that I strongly disagree.

I'll wait to see how Amendola plays not just this year but for the length of the decision (contract) before making a premature and simplistic assessment.

 

[Tunescribe]

Blaming Welker because the Patriots tried screwing him over with the money instead of paying him his worth, when they had plenty of money to pay him a proper salary, is so stupid that even most Jets fans would know better, yet here on this board we repeatedly get Patriots fans who mindly spew that nonsense.

It's pathetic.

This debate has been beaten to death ad nauseam and you CONTINUE to miscast what happened. Welker ended up in Denver after his agent rejected a fair (i.e. market competitive) offer he thought he could beat. He put the Pats on hold to further test the waters. Meanwhile, New England was in limbo regarding its slot receiver and (wisely) didn't trust the agent to do the right thing. So, they grabbed Amendola before he signed elsewhere. Wes's agent misread his client's market potential badly. He became a Bronco for a slightly lesser contract (confirmed by Bob Kraft himself) after the Pats understandably moved on.

If you feel the Pats should've paid Welker more than what the market indicated he was worth, fine. But your idea of a "proper salary" apparently didn't jive with the proven business practice of a team that has thrived specifically because it doesn't overpay the top of its roster. Ironically (and this is something you conveniently ignore), Welker's idiot agent rejected a lucrative extension offer from the Pats a year before his contract expired that, in retrospect, made his current deal look like peanuts.

Unfortunately, Deus, you're committed to your own version of pathetic nonsense.

 

[JMC00]

Ever think Welker just wanted out of here and wanted his money too?

Because I do.

 

[mgteich]

There are a couple of reasons to evaluate decisions before we see the results on the field (as is the case for draftees).

First, such speculation and analysis is one of the primary activities of the message board.

Second, if we are not crystal clear up front, we are accused of questioning decisions with 100% hindsight.

Belichick is taking even more of a chance than when he cut Meriweather and Sanders with no replacements. This time Belichick has dumped one the very best players (at his position) in the NFL.

This is before Amendola has even had the ball thrown to him in anger.

we'll know in the next few weeks if replacing Welker with Amendola was such a bad move.

 

[Buchanty]

The team had years to give Welker a fitting salary, and a 3 year deal with $20 million bonus/guaranteed would reportedly have been what Welker's camp was looking for, and would have been a perfectly reasonable contract. Instead, the Patriots tried to massage the market by keeping him on the low salary, franchising him for a season and then lowballing him in a down cap year.

Don't be so unthinking that you miss the obvious.

Hmm let me think -

Year 1 - $9.4M (franchise tag)
Years 2 and 3 - $10M plus 5 levels of incentives

Total $19.4+ is not very far off the WW camp comfort level at $20M, with more guaranteed through the franchise tag.

Maybe not the way either side wanted it structured but enough to say it wasn't low balling since the Broncos offer was so close (and without them having to pay the heavy fee up front).

 

[Ring 6]

This debate has been beaten to death ad nauseam and you CONTINUE to miscast what happened. Welker ended up in Denver after his agent rejected a fair (i.e. market competitive) offer he thought he could beat. He put the Pats on hold to further test the waters. Meanwhile, New England was in limbo regarding its slot receiver and (wisely) didn't trust the agent to do the right thing. So, they grabbed Amendola before he signed elsewhere. Wes's agent misread his client's market potential badly. He became a Bronco for a slightly lesser contract (confirmed by Bob Kraft himself) after the Pats understandably moved on.

If you feel the Pats should've paid Welker more than what the market indicated he was worth, fine. But your idea of a "proper salary" apparently didn't jive with the proven business practice of a team that has thrived specifically because it doesn't overpay the top of its roster. Ironically (and this is something you conveniently ignore), Welker's idiot agent rejected a lucrative extension offer from the Pats a year before his contract expired that, in retrospect, made his current deal look like peanuts.

Unfortunately, Deus, you're committed to your own version of pathetic nonsense.

Deus believes in paying a debt of gratitude to players for past performance rather than paying based upon future expectations. That is why most Pats fans will never understand his logic.

 

[Sicilian]

What many here seem to be saying is that Welker just wasn't worth $2M more than Amendola. Folks here would rather have the $2M of cap room and Amendola. There is nothing more for me to say other than that I strongly disagree.

We really don't know all the facts, there's always two sides to a story so I won't claim this as the absolutely truth, but... The Patriots reported the sequence of events as:

1) Patriots offer Welker 2 for $10m, with incentives, prior to him hitting the market. This ends up being in line with what the market was ultimately offering.

2) Welker and his agent believe the market will be higher, and insinuate that they won't be coming back to the Patriots for an offer match.

3) The Patriots, not wanting to get caught flat-footed, go to their plan B (Amendola) before he is taken off the market.

4) Welker realizes the market isn't what he thought, and by the time they come back to the Pats they've already used the Welker money to sign Amendola.

You can claim they could have both, but maybe they feel that their roles are too redundant, and that if they wanted to spend $12m per year on the slot receiver position, they would have just started with a higher offer to Welker in the first place.

Again, one side, but does that scenario sound so outlandish that to believe it is foolish or blind homerism? I don't think Welker wanted to come back. Whether it was due to his perceived slight in previous negotiations is where the blame may fall on the Patriots.

 

[Oswlek]

Given that it happens in most high end contracts, you must love tossing that blame around.

They had several years to get it done. Instead, they decided to do what they'd done with Mankins and manipulate the CBA/cap situation. Generally playing hardball is one thing. This sort of crap is another. They need to learn that, sometimes, just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done.

If we're going to bag on players for holdouts when they've already got reasonable deals, we need to bag on teams for this sort of crap instead of celebrating it. To do otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

That is remarkably misleading. The guys who get more money than B2B tags tend to be players that you aren't worried about come 3 years from now.

You continue to ignore the fact that Welker had a serious knee injury in 2009, right at the moment that the team was most likely to offer him a restructure. That is a significant factor in the ultimate split, one that cannot be simply brushed aside.

 

[resdubwhite]

There are a couple of reasons to evaluate decisions before we see the results on the field (as is the case for draftees).

First, such speculation and analysis is one of the primary activities of the message board.

Second, if we are not crystal clear up front, we are accused of questioning decisions with 100% hindsight.

Belichick is taking even more of a chance than when he cut Meriweather and Sanders with no replacements. This time Belichick has dumped one the very best players (at his position) in the NFL.

But has a backup plan in place. Its not like Merriweather and Sanders at all.

i understand the dynamics of a message board. People enjoy a whinge. But give Amendola a chance for the love of god.

 

[Zeus]

Count me as a big Wes Welker fan - a terrific, tough, smart and highly productive player. Reasonable people can disagree on whether the Patriots should have tried harder to resign him. For my part, I think his age and the pounding he took were big considerations.

But to suggest that NE should have paid him $8 million per year for two (or even three!) years doesn't make sense when his actual market value in his free agent year as determined by the contract he received is 25% lower. Why should the Patriots be expected to pay more than market value for any player?

 

[Tunescribe]

Deus believes in paying a debt of gratitude to players for past performance rather than paying based upon future expectations. That is why most Pats fans will never understand his logic.

I don't think "logic" is the proper word in this case.

 

[resdubwhite]

I don't think "logic" is the proper word in this case.

How about "emotional investment" ?

 

[Sicilian]

I'd just like to take an aside and say to PatJew, I'm sorry and I feel bad for you. You came here to profess a sadness at seeing Welker on another team, and the thread has become a rehash of months old arguments.

It's like someone coming on and saying their church burned down and their community is hurt by it, and have the thread erupt into a flame-fest about organized religion.

 

[Oswlek]

If there is a silver lining, it is that we are getting this topic out of the way early, so it won't bog down the genuine football talk come Sunday. :rocker:

 

[Tunescribe]

How about "emotional investment" ?

I think he has an "anger investment" regarding the Pats front office, BB, and Pats fans ("homers") in general.

 

[Uncle Rico]

If there is a silver lining, it is that we are getting this topic out of the way early, so it won't bog down the genuine football talk come Sunday. :rocker:

Now that's some seriously optimistic thinking.

 

[Deus Irae]

This debate has been beaten to death ad nauseam and you CONTINUE to miscast what happened.

I haven't "miscast" anything.

 

[olschool]

Now that's some seriously optimistic thinking.

All it will take is one bad game by Amendola and we'll be crying the Welker blues.

That said, I never had a problem with a Welker drop here and there. With the amount of passes thrown his way, statistically a few are going to be dropped, yes even in the playoffs.

It's not his fault he was playing with a defense that couldn't stop Eli Freaking Manning.

 

[Tunescribe]

I haven't "miscast" anything.

If you are referring to offering generally indefensible opinion, I suppose you're right.