How much longer will Patrick Chung last?

[ausbacker]

Well, that's certainly fair, but that's why I included the #2-#3 designation. I would agree that we can definitely do better with another outside CB, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone else here that can effectively do that, especially not in Belichick's eyes.

He was supposed to be our slot CB (#3), which he can do just fine, but the injury last year + regression this year to Dowling has prevented that.

In a perfect world supa our 1,2,3 would be McCourty, Dowling and Arrington in the slot. I'd really like to know what's up with Dowling.

 

[supafly]

Where have the CBs shown improvement? McCourty was awful in Baltimore, and the two INTs he had against the Bills were on underthrown balls that would have gone for big gains if Fitzpicksix had made decent throws.

LOL (at the dressing comment, which is gone now)

I think that McCourty has looked better than last year. I think Moore has done an okay job moving to the outside CB spot in the nickle, and I think Arrington has stayed about the same, seeing as we have low expectations of him already.

I don't think it's unfair to say that the CB play has improved from last year, do you?

 

[PatsGirl2011]

Where have the CBs shown improvement? McCourty was awful in Baltimore, and the two INTs he had against the Bills were on underthrown balls that would have gone for big gains if Fitzpicksix had made decent throws.

Someone need their eyes check...McCourty was the best player in the secondary by a mile in Baltimore and Buffalo. He had one bogus and legit PI called, but otherwise played a fairly solid game. I didn't see any huge completions on his side. Arrington and Chung on the other hand gave up massive amount of yards.

 

[Ring 6]

Where have the CBs shown improvement? McCourty was awful in Baltimore, and the two INTs he had against the Bills were on underthrown balls that would have gone for big gains if Fitzpicksix had made decent throws.

Through 4 games

2011 111/168 66.1% 1475 yds
2012 94/148 63.5% 1126 yards

Aside from the blatantly obvious improved play from McCourty there is a significant statistical improvement in pass defense as well.

Oh, and your assessment of McCourty stinks on ice.
He was awful in Baltimore based on 2 plays, and his Ints don't count because you don't want them to, despite the fact that they were perfectly played

 

[supafly]

Where have the CBs shown improvement? McCourty was awful in Baltimore, and the two INTs he had against the Bills were on underthrown balls that would have gone for big gains if Fitzpicksix had made decent throws.

I think that is a bit of a strong statement myself, but I can understand that some see it that way.

I think that he had 4 passes defended in the BAL game, and aside from the DPI call (which was horrible on DMcC's part), he did not play "horrible."

I don't think he had a good game either, but I think he did better than some are giving him credit for.

Either way, aside from the BAL game, McCourty has looked improved upon vs last year, and Moore has looked fine stepping into the outside role in nickle situations.

They may not be setting the world on fire, but they have improved upon last yr's pathetic performance for sure in my opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

LOL (at the dressing comment, which is gone now)

Thanks. I liked it, but I didn't want people to think I was deliberately smearing the guys when it was just a humor comment, so I cut it.

I think that McCourty has looked better than last year. I think Moore has done an okay job moving to the outside CB spot in the nickle, and I think Arrington has stayed about the same, seeing as we have low expectations of him already.

I don't think it's unfair to say that the CB play has improved from last year, do you?

If it was a 1 out of 10 last year, it might be a 1.5 or 2 out of 10 this year. It might still be a 1 out of 10. Any improvement has been very minor.

Moore can't really cover anyone he can't manhandle but, if he gets a good chuck on a guy, he can usually stay with him after that.

Arrington is the same guy who should have been CB4 or CB5 from the beginning.

McCourty still is inconsistent in just about everything, can't run with fast WRs, is too slow with his hip turn and has lousy ball skills once he turns his back to the play.

Dowling is apparently applying for WITSEC assistance.

 

[Ring 6]

Someone need their eyes check...McCourty was the best player in the secondary by a mile in Baltimore and Buffalo. He had one bogus and legit PI called, but otherwise played a fairly solid game. I didn't see any huge completions on his side. Arrington and Chung on the other hand gave up massive amount of yards.

McCourty allowed one bad completion on the final drive in Baltimore. His PI penalty was nearly as horrendous as many imply if you take the time to understand the situation and the coverage he was playing.

 

[Deus Irae]

...I think that he had 4 passes defended in the BAL game, and aside from the DPI call (which was horrible on DMcC's part), he did not play "horrible."...

He was awful, and he was getting smoked even when the ball wasn't being thrown to his man. He knew it, as his comments after the game showed, IMO.

 

[warx]

I guess the Bills game it was easy to pick out Chung as the monster Chandler caught TD passes over him, but its hard to blame a 5'10" or so safety when a 6'6" or so TE is catching the ball.

Chung actually broke up a passing play along the touchline before one of the Chandler TDs, but plays like that don't really get noticed.

I don't think Chung has played well this season, but I don't think he's played poorly either. He needs to step it up in his contract year.

 

[supafly]

In a perfect world supa our 1,2,3 would be McCourty, Dowling and Arrington in the slot. I'd really like to know what's up with Dowling.

Yeah, having another decent option across from McCourty would really be a blessing for sure, and I agree that Arrington is much better suited for the slot role.

I'm sure we'll hear something leak out eventually regarding Dowling. For now it seems as though Belichick hasn't seen enough from him to beat out Arrington and Moore, but I doubt it's that simple.

 

[hodgey]

Where have the CBs shown improvement? McCourty was awful in Baltimore, and the two INTs he had against the Bills were on underthrown balls that would have gone for big gains if Fitzpicksix had made decent throws.

Deus I've been with you all along, but disagree on Mccourty in the Buffalo game. I think his positioning was much improved. He was also locating the ball!! Makes you wonder what poor safety play does to how one plays corner?

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus I've been with you all along, but disagree on Mccourty in the Buffalo game. I think his positioning was much improved. He was also locating the ball!! Makes you wonder what poor safety play does to how one plays corner?

Go look at those two picks again....

Also, people ignore the beats when the ball isn't thrown to the CB's man. For example, take a look at this footage at around the 45 second mark, and see how badly McCourty was beaten on the in.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012093000/2012/REG4/patriots@bills#menu=highlights&tab=recap

Fitzpicksix gets the big gainer against Mayo, but he could also easily have picked up the first down if he'd thrown to McCourty's man on the play.

 

[supafly]

He was awful, and he was getting smoked even when the ball wasn't being thrown to his man. He knew it, as his comments after the game showed, IMO.

The BAL game could certainly be viewed as a poor performance from McCourty, I'm not going to debate that. As I said, he certainly didn't play well, but I personally think that he played better than some gave him credit for.

I saw some things that he did okay, but those may have been overshadowed by his glaring mistakes for you.

Either way, the CB's still need to show more for certain, but I am placing more blame on the safeties than the CB's myself. I have seen some improvement in the play of the corners.

That improvement probably isn't significant enough for many to warrant "good" comments (and I'm not), but I think that they have been better than last year for sure so far. Yes, I think there's been improvement.

I also think that the play of the CB's is directly related to that of the S's, so that may be where we disagree a bit. I see awful play from the safeties so far..again.

 

[Marqui]

Moore can't really cover anyone he can't manhandle

What are you basing this on? Which passing plays did he get beat on this year?

 

[Deus Irae]

What are you basing this on? Which passing plays did he get beat on this year?

:confused2:

I'm basing it on what I'm seeing. I don't recall specifics because, frankly, McCourty's play is far more important to the team at this moment, IMO, so my focus is more intent in his direction.

 

[hodgey]

Go look at those two picks again....

Also, people ignore the beats when the ball isn't thrown to the CB's man. For example, take a look at this footage at around the 45 second mark, and see how badly McCourty was beaten on the in.

NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Buffalo Bills - 2012 Week 4

Fitzpicksix gets the big gainer against Mayo, but he could also easily have picked up the first down if he'd thrown to McCourty's man on the play.

I dont dispute that Mccourty is capable of giving up a first down completion on a 5 yard crossing route while in man coverage against Stevie Johnson. I'm only saying 2 int's last week along with two he should have had against the Ravens is a step up from where he was last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I dont dispute that Mccourty is capable of giving up a first down completion on a 5 yard crossing route while in man coverage against Stevie Johnson. I'm only saying 2 int's last week along with two he should have had against the Ravens is a step up from where he was last year.

If they'd been difficult picks, I'd agree. These weren't. And blowing the pair he should have had against the Ravens is a negative, not a positive.

And the point of pointing you to that video was to show just how wide open the receiver was. He was in a different area code, not just open.

 

[Alfred]

I really liked this kid coming out..but lately..he just flat out sucks....

Totally disagree. He has been steady and as far as I am concerned, is doing a decent job. Belichick must think so, too.

 

[ATippett56]

I can't see either unrestricted free agent Patrick Chung nor unrestricted free agent Kyle Arrington back with the New England Patriots for the 2013 NFL Season.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Someone need their eyes check...McCourty was the best player in the secondary by a mile in Baltimore and Buffalo. He had one bogus and legit PI called, but otherwise played a fairly solid game. I didn't see any huge completions on his side. Arrington and Chung on the other hand gave up massive amount of yards.

You're wasting your time. In fact, I think the Devin McCourty thread should be locked by the mods because it will remain at an impasse. The people who believe he's worth something will continue to defend him, while the people who think he's trash will continue to think that no matter what he does. There are people who are actually saying he's worse than or the same as last season, which is absolutely false. The kid has definitely played markedly better this season. However, his haters will point to a handful of plays and say, "See, this is why he sucks," completely disregarding that outside the likes of Bailey, Woodson, Revis (who gets away with murder), and maybe one or two other guys, the league is full of corners who give up big plays or make critical mistakes. It's not an easy position to play by any means. These things will happen.

McCourty has been far more competitive this year than last. He's done a far better job of honoring his assignments, whether it be zone or man, than he did last season. He's gotten his hands on more balls than he did last season. In fact, he is currently second in the league in passes defended. He has not been perfect, but he has not been the secondary's biggest weakness either. But alas, none of that matters because of the few mistakes he has made. The only way people will stop hating the guy is if he goes the rest of the season without allowing another completion. Since we know that's not going to happen . . . well . . .