How much longer will Patrick Chung last?

[JackBauer]

I was gonna say...2002 says hello. But then I saw you qualified it as "one of the worst."

 

[RayClay]

To all. I'm not saying Chung is Harrison, obviously. He did have a shoulder injury, maybe is playing on it. I don't know what business decisions the patriots will make after the season.

He is a good safety and a hitter. That's his strength. Besides him we have two new guys. All things equal, if he's reasonable, I'd like to build a core instead of starting over each season, so I see no reason to get rid of him.

It's just stupid to keep turning over when you have competent players, rather than waiting for someone to beat them out. We've won superbowls with mediocre defensive backfields. there's no advantage at all to having secondaries where guys don't know each others names, sorry.

Don't care what the junior GMs think, cutting competent players in favor of rookies is dumb. If the Pats and Chung agree on a contract, we can add safeties, we don't have a ton of money tied up there.

If they don't agree, this thread is even more pointless. It's quite obvious Chung is needed this year, hope he's healthy.

 

[patfanken]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Do any of you have even the smallest clue what a S has to process before every play. The myriad of potential motions and patterns that are possible EVERY pass play. And after he finally deciphers the clues he then has to cover amazingly gifted receivers most of whom are either bigger or faster than they are (or both), and in the mean time be among the teams' top tacklers, and hit 230lb RBs like a LB on a regular basis. Troy Polomaloulu is one of the greatest Safeties of his generation gets regularly abused by Tom Brady. I guess he should be dumped as well.

I wish people would get through there heads that there is no such thing as "shut down safety". Passes are going to be completed in the middle of the field. Lots of them And it isn't always a criminal offense by a DB when it happens. What I don't seem to get is the seeming pleasure these sanctimonious haters take in calling out these players. Criticizing is one thing, but some of these mooks equate football knowledge with how tough you are on players, like its a coat of moral superiority

The fact is that on a GOOD day 200-300 yds of passing is going to occur, and given the lack of tolerance and understanding we see in this thread, Jesus and 3 of his apostles would have no chance of meeting the inflated expectations of those deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and bad on this board.

 

[hodgey]

Imho safety has evolved in to the most important position on the defense in the new high powered passing league. The best defenses typically have the best safeties. We now have a corresponding answer on offense with the rise of the athletic tight end.

I think a team is at a huge disadvantage if one or both of there safeties are a liability in coverage. The easiest throws to complete are between the numbers. I cant say for sure why our safeties appear consistantly late to the play, but it needs to be fixed. I think for now the in the box safety is a thing of the past. Give me the next best cover guy available and i'll take my chances.

 

[mgteich]

This thread has gone far astray, but that's OK.

THE SECONDARY HAS LOOKED MUCH BETTER? - CORNERS
Has it really? The front seven has looked much better. McCourty has been looking better. Arrington is a fine backup. Moore has been playing well enough to beat out Dowling for the nickel spot; that is of course good and bad news. Cole and Dowling are OK as dime backs.

SAFETY PLAY
I guess the safeties haven't caused as much damage as last year. That is because of the fine play of the front seven and the improved play by McCourty (partially due to the fine play by the front seven). Ebner is a STer who is a developmental safety. We have three safeties that we rely on. Wilson has been given some reps at nickel and dime. He is definitely a bright spot (as Chung was in his first year). Safety is our weakest position; we have to have one. I agree that we should address this position in the 2013 draft where there are many more solid prospects than in 2012. I would note that we did fine in 2012 with Wilson and Ebner (a major plus for Belichick). 2012 safety play figures to be better than 2011, not a very high bar.

2013 DRAFT/OFFSEASON PRIORITIES

ASSUMING Vollmer will be healthy and be back seems a stretch. As of now, we need a starting RT, a backup OT and a developmental OT. To me, this is our top offseason need.

ASSUMING that Welker will be back just seems wrong. HOWEVER, I don't think that Belichick finds starting WR's in the draft. In any case, WR is a top off-season priority with Welker, Edelman and Branch all in their contract years. Yes, I understand that Salas could develop.

 

[BradyManny]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Ken - what's with all the hyperbole and polarizing comments lately? It's possible to have a reasonable discussion on the safety play of the New England Patriots, and you aren't helping at the moment.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I thought this thread was regarding Chung's likelihood of being healthy all season. Boy was I wrong. There's no reason to not bring him in next season because no one is going to jump at him, and his attitude is not problematic.

Before this turned into Chung vs. Harrison, the argument was is this secondary improved from last year. Yes. They're competitive, and while you could certainly ask for better positioning on multiple occasions, competitive is as much as you can ask for out of this group. We were never going to rely on the secondary for success this year. It's all about the front seven. That's how it works on every good defense.

 

[everlong]

Ken - what's with all the hyperbole and polarizing comments lately? It's possible to have a reasonable discussion on the safety play of the New England Patriots, and you aren't helping at the moment.

Fighting fire with fire?

Honestly the problem is everybody is expecting Rodney Harrison 2003-4 and Chung while a decent safety isn't at that level. I think people forget just how bad Meriweather and Sanders were with their over-pursuit and bad angles. Lawyer Milloy wasn't a good cover safety and he had better rules to play with. His angles also were bad at times.

On the TD pass to Chandler as Bedard pointed out Chung was caught between taking away a crossing route and staying deep and make the wrong decision but still almost came up with the play.

He's not Ed Reed but he also isn't the problem.

 

[RodThePat]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Do any of you have even the smallest clue what a S has to process before every play. The myriad of potential motions and patterns that are possible EVERY pass play. And after he finally deciphers the clues he then has to cover amazingly gifted receivers most of whom are either bigger or faster than they are (or both), and in the mean time be among the teams' top tacklers, and hit 230lb RBs like a LB on a regular basis. Troy Polomaloulu is one of the greatest Safeties of his generation gets regularly abused by Tom Brady. I guess he should be dumped as well.

I wish people would get through there heads that there is no such thing as "shut down safety". Passes are going to be completed in the middle of the field. Lots of them And it isn't always a criminal offense by a DB when it happens. What I don't seem to get is the seeming pleasure these sanctimonious haters take in calling out these players. Criticizing is one thing, but some of these mooks equate football knowledge with how tough you are on players, like its a coat of moral superiority

The fact is that on a GOOD day 200-300 yds of passing is going to occur, and given the lack of tolerance and understanding we see in this thread, Jesus and 3 of his apostles would have no chance of meeting the inflated expectations of those deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and bad on this board.

Okay, this is ******* ridiculous right now. Yes, safety is a very hard position to play. Yes, Brady, Gronk, Hernandez and Welker make even some of the best safeties in the league look helpless pretty much every week. I don't know what in the hell that has to do with being critical of Patrick Chung, though. Once again, the middle of the field has been abused by mediocre receivers, tight-ends and quarterbacks SINCE 2007. It's not a case of us going against hall of famers every week and getting toasted. The rules have changed, but that doesn't mean we simply have to hang our heads and readily accept whatever level of performance is being put on the field. You really don't think the secondary, particularly safety play, is the one area on the team that has been a consistent weakness over recent years? You can't be that blind. Chung is mediocre, and Gregory is below average. That's pretty much it. Not everyone on the Patriots is god's gift to football. Accept that, and move on.

 

[The Gr8est]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Do any of you have even the smallest clue what a S has to process before every play. The myriad of potential motions and patterns that are possible EVERY pass play. And after he finally deciphers the clues he then has to cover amazingly gifted receivers most of whom are either bigger or faster than they are (or both), and in the mean time be among the teams' top tacklers, and hit 230lb RBs like a LB on a regular basis. Troy Polomaloulu is one of the greatest Safeties of his generation gets regularly abused by Tom Brady. I guess he should be dumped as well.

I wish people would get through there heads that there is no such thing as "shut down safety". Passes are going to be completed in the middle of the field. Lots of them And it isn't always a criminal offense by a DB when it happens. What I don't seem to get is the seeming pleasure these sanctimonious haters take in calling out these players. Criticizing is one thing, but some of these mooks equate football knowledge with how tough you are on players, like its a coat of moral superiority

The fact is that on a GOOD day 200-300 yds of passing is going to occur, and given the lack of tolerance and understanding we see in this thread, Jesus and 3 of his apostles would have no chance of meeting the inflated expectations of those deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and bad on this board.

Well to be fair, it is well known that Jesus is susceptible to biting on play action.

 

[Kontradiction]

I was gonna say...2002 says hello. But then I saw you qualified it as "one of the worst."

2005 prior to Bruschi's return and the general return of good health at the end of the season as well.

 

[Kontradiction]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Do any of you have even the smallest clue what a S has to process before every play. The myriad of potential motions and patterns that are possible EVERY pass play. And after he finally deciphers the clues he then has to cover amazingly gifted receivers most of whom are either bigger or faster than they are (or both), and in the mean time be among the teams' top tacklers, and hit 230lb RBs like a LB on a regular basis. Troy Polomaloulu is one of the greatest Safeties of his generation gets regularly abused by Tom Brady. I guess he should be dumped as well.

I wish people would get through there heads that there is no such thing as "shut down safety". Passes are going to be completed in the middle of the field. Lots of them And it isn't always a criminal offense by a DB when it happens. What I don't seem to get is the seeming pleasure these sanctimonious haters take in calling out these players. Criticizing is one thing, but some of these mooks equate football knowledge with how tough you are on players, like its a coat of moral superiority

The fact is that on a GOOD day 200-300 yds of passing is going to occur, and given the lack of tolerance and understanding we see in this thread, Jesus and 3 of his apostles would have no chance of meeting the inflated expectations of those deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and bad on this board.

 

[aluminum seats]

Chung reminds me of Ben Watson, in terms of how he's perceived. Both guys were always viewed as talented, with the sense that they would become elite any...minute...now. And it never happens.

I hope Chung stays healthy, and contributes this year to a Super Bowl winning season. Then I fully expect him to be playing somewhere else next year.

 

[Deus Irae]

People should just ignore Deus Irae. Almost every post he makes is laughable and you wonder if he's being serious and/or even watching the games. McCourty was a beast in the Buffalo game and overall has been MUCH MUCH better than last season. He is regaining form and if he keeps this up our secondary will be in decent shape.

Tavon Wilson has looked solid in pass coverage in limited reps, he should eventually steal the job from the inferior Gregory.

Chung is average at best in pass coverage, but is solid in the box as a run stopper. Would like to see him with Tavon by the end of the season.

Shouldn't they just ignore you, too, then, since I've been saying that

1.) Wilson has looked competitive and could take the job from Gregory
2.) Chung's good in the box but can't cover

?

You're in agreement with me about 2/3 of what you just asserted, yet you insulted my posts. The 1/3 you disagree about is the one that the TV analysts were agreeing with me on. That makes you a bit of a clown, really.... Great start to your posting career under that name.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

So to sum up 10 pages of whining. Every ball that is caught between the numbers is Chung's fault, and those that aren't Chung's fault are Gregories fault. Got it. Ergo. Gronk Hernandez and Welker all suck. The only reason they have had so much success is that all the teams they play have horrible Safeties, that allow them to make all those catches. It can't possibly be anything that THEY are doing.

Do any of you have even the smallest clue what a S has to process before every play. The myriad of potential motions and patterns that are possible EVERY pass play. And after he finally deciphers the clues he then has to cover amazingly gifted receivers most of whom are either bigger or faster than they are (or both), and in the mean time be among the teams' top tacklers, and hit 230lb RBs like a LB on a regular basis. Troy Polomaloulu is one of the greatest Safeties of his generation gets regularly abused by Tom Brady. I guess he should be dumped as well.

I wish people would get through there heads that there is no such thing as "shut down safety". Passes are going to be completed in the middle of the field. Lots of them And it isn't always a criminal offense by a DB when it happens. What I don't seem to get is the seeming pleasure these sanctimonious haters take in calling out these players. Criticizing is one thing, but some of these mooks equate football knowledge with how tough you are on players, like its a coat of moral superiority

The fact is that on a GOOD day 200-300 yds of passing is going to occur, and given the lack of tolerance and understanding we see in this thread, Jesus and 3 of his apostles would have no chance of meeting the inflated expectations of those deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and bad on this board.

Both starting safeties miss tackles on a regular basis and I can't recall last time one of them actually made a play in coverage other than an overthrown floater. Their play is about equal to the the type of play that got Meriweather and Sanders booted off the team. I don't get the need to lash out at other posters especially when discussing the very suspect play of the safeties, in this case it's definitely justifiable.

 

[JackBauer]

Both starting safeties miss tackles on a regular basis and I can't recall last time one of them actually made a play in coverage other than an overthrown floater.

How about last Sunday?

 

[RodThePat]

How about last Sunday?

What about it?

 

[mgteich]

I have no clue as to why some folks cannot admit that our safety play isn't very good and could use significant improvement.

Even Super Bowl winners have weak points. Ours is the quality and play of our safeties. Our #2 weakness is that our corners are, as a group, average at best, and our second weakness. This is not a good combination when we play passing teams.

To put this another way, who among our secondary do we expect to be pro-bowl players or all-pro players this year, or even next year?

We have Wilfork, Jones, Mayo and Hightower. Is McCourty really someone the opponents fear? What about Arrington, Moore and Dowling?

We need to face the fact that we are a Super Bowl contender with a weakness, as all contenders are.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Premature ejaculation of thread topic.

Yes, Chung is on trial this season for renewal or not next season. No star so he won't get extended early. Pats want to see if he can stay healthy and cover somewhat and mostly avoid big play resulting bad angles and PIs. If after a season's worth of eval he gets a passing grade above bottom third tier they'll make him an average renewal offer and Pat will see if some GM elsewhere is desperate.

 

[everlong]

I have no clue as to why some folks cannot admit that our safety play isn't very good and could use significant improvement.

The safety play does need improvement. I think some of the posters are going overboard and acting like it's Tebucky Jones and Artrell Hawkins back there and that this current crop should all be shipped to Cleveland. I think long term Wilson is going to be a fine FS and that will move Chung back into the box where he should be. The one I find disconcerting is Gregory. Maybe it's still a case of picking up the scheme but he looks to be more out of position of the three.

Personally I think by the quarter of the season we'll see a vast improvement as they gel as a unit.