Greg Bedard - Spot-on Analysis in this Morning's Globe

[Ochmed Jones]

At the end of the day, we were physically beat like dogs.

The defense is the worst in the NFl for a reason. Outside of Wilfork we have zero play makers and zero heart, but tons of role players and ST guys.

Quick steps for making the defense better:

1.) Hire a DC. BB is clearly spread to thin and the foundation is starting to crack.

2.) Draft pass rushers on day one and day two. We need two guys that make opposing QB's nervous.

3.) Beef up the D Line. With talented guys with hunger and desire and not worthless Haynesworth types.

As I have said before, BB the GM is killing BB the coach.

 

[JackBauer]

3.) Beef up the D Line. With talented guys with hunger and desire and not worthless Haynesworth types.

I always like it when people dump on players who are clearly NOT the problem.

 

[letekro]

Yes, it's a talent issue. You can look for excuses on any given play. That doesn't change what happened throughout the game.

What happened throughout the game (it looked like) is that guys were not getting close enough to the receiver when he would come into their zones. This sort of thing has traditionally improved as the year goes on under Belichick, regardless of the "talent" of the secondary.

They also had trouble with that play where Ben would just throw it to the area vacated by the Spikes and/or Mayo blitz. I would think that can be corrected as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

What happened throughout the game (it looked like) is that guys were not getting close enough to the receiver when he would come into their zones. This sort of thing has traditionally improved as the year goes on under Belichick, regardless of the "talent" of the secondary.

They also had trouble with that play where Ben would just throw it to the area vacated by the Spikes and/or Mayo blitz. I would think that can be corrected as well.

What happened during the game is that we saw what happens when you put really crappy players out on defense against a team with NFL talent going after them and against that same NFL team with a good coaching staff.

Before the game,I talked about what the Patriots were going to be forced to do in order to protect that secondary. They were going to have to go into a deep shell in order to avoid getting burned by the likes of Wallace. If I could figure that out, was there really any question that a well-coached team like the Steelers would be able to figure it out as well?

That wasn't a scheme problem. That was a talent problem forcing the Patriots into a scheme that had little chance to succeed.

 

[Garbanza]

I didn't realize that defenses that Give up 20 points or less were considered putrid.. Guess everyone on here just learned something..

LOL! Eyeball test, son. Heck, look at the stats.

I will say though, for as weak as they are personnel wise, their red zone efficiency was okay.

 

[TheComeback]

Then why the one and done in the playoff's the last two years?

I know you may not be aware of this, but Belichick has actually been coaching for longer than two years.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

What happened throughout the game (it looked like) is that guys were not getting close enough to the receiver when he would come into their zones. This sort of thing has traditionally improved as the year goes on under Belichick, regardless of the "talent" of the secondary.

Yup, instead of playing the guys in Pittsburgh we were sitting back at the Canadian border waiting to tackle.

I am about 30 mins from the game this sunday, surely I can make the tackle before Ninkovich right?

 

[TheComeback]

I love the Nostradamus types, like Bedard, who say, "Well the Pats are good enough to win 12 games and get into the playoffs, but then they'll automatically lose because they don't fit into my idea of what a playoff team 'should be'."

If you're willing to admit that this team can get to the playoffs, then it becomes impossible to say they have no chance of getting to the Super Bowl. There is no such thing as a 0% chance to win any game.

Teams have won the Super Bowl with terrible defenses. The Saints were awful in '09, and the Colts were even worse in '06 until the playoffs. They have eight weeks left to make improvements. I don't think they can get any worse than they already are. Maybe they won't improve, but given this team's history and the coming changes in weather, I doubt it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I love the Nostradamus types, like Bedard, who say, "Well the Pats are good enough to win 12 games and get into the playoffs, but then they'll automatically lose because they don't fit into my idea of what a playoff team 'should be'."

If you're willing to admit that this team can get to the playoffs, then it becomes impossible to say they have no chance of getting to the Super Bowl. There is no such thing as a 0% chance to win any game.

Teams have won the Super Bowl with terrible defenses. The Saints were awful in '09, and the Colts were even worse in '06 until the playoffs. They have eight weeks left to make improvements. I don't think they can get any worse than they already are. Maybe they won't improve, but given this team's history and the coming changes in weather, I doubt it.

Today's winner for Most Deliberately Clueless Post!



Congratulations

 

[RodThePat]

I love the Nostradamus types, like Bedard, who say, "Well the Pats are good enough to win 12 games and get into the playoffs, but then they'll automatically lose because they don't fit into my idea of what a playoff team 'should be'."

If you're willing to admit that this team can get to the playoffs, then it becomes impossible to say they have no chance of getting to the Super Bowl. There is no such thing as a 0% chance to win any game.

Teams have won the Super Bowl with terrible defenses. The Saints were awful in '09, and the Colts were even worse in '06 until the playoffs. They have eight weeks left to make improvements. I don't think they can get any worse than they already are. Maybe they won't improve, but given this team's history and the coming changes in weather, I doubt it.

No one is saying they have 0% chance of winning in the playoffs, but if the defense doesn't improve significantly, the odds are pretty slim, wouldn't you agree?

This isn't like baseball where every pitcher can throw a good game on any given night, and your best hitters can go a combined 6-40 with 22Ks in a series, causing you to lose in the postseason. In football, it's highly unlikely that a defense as bad as this one can maintain an acceptable level of performance through 3 games, en route to a SuperBowl victory. That's where the concern lies.

 

[letekro]

What happened during the game is that we saw what happens when you put really crappy players out on defense against a team with NFL talent going after them and against that same NFL team with a good coaching staff.

Before the game,I talked about what the Patriots were going to be forced to do in order to protect that secondary. They were going to have to go into a deep shell in order to avoid getting burned by the likes of Wallace. If I could figure that out, was there really any question that a well-coached team like the Steelers would be able to figure it out as well?

That wasn't a scheme problem. That was a talent problem forcing the Patriots into a scheme that had little chance to succeed.

Whatever. This same thing has been said about Patriot secondaries going back to the glory years. Fact is, we're not asking these guys to be Darrelle Revis and shadow guys all over the field. They have to play in a zone. They are plenty talented (I count a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder in their secondary) to play a zone concept, and if history is any indication, those zones will tighten up as the year goes on. It happened when Ty and freaking OTIS were back there, it happened when Randall Gay and an embryonic Asante Samuel were back there, it even happened last year with a similarly underwhelming group. The defense will not be dominant this year, but, if history is a guide, it will be solid.

Will solid be good enough if the offense sputters and we're playing a competent QB in the playoffs? Probably not

 

[Deus Irae]

Whatever. This same thing has been said about Patriot secondaries going back to the glory years. Fact is, we're not asking these guys to be Darrelle Revis and shadow guys all over the field. They have to play in a zone. They are plenty talented (I count a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder in their secondary) to play a zone concept, and if history is any indication, those zones will tighten up as the year goes on. It happened when Ty and freaking OTIS were back there, it happened when Randall Gay and an embryonic Asante Samuel were back there, it even happened last year with a similarly underwhelming group. The defense will not be dominant this year, but, if history is a guide, it will be solid.

Will solid be good enough if the offense sputters and we're playing a competent QB in the playoffs? Probably not

If you think that secondary is "plenty talented", you're either blind or insane.

 

[PatsSox363804]

It's a talent and scheme issue but mostly it's the talent. The secondary in the title years always had hall of fame players and they could scheme around the bad players with coaching because the coaching staff was stacked. Now we have a talentless secondary and no Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, and Rob Ryan to help them out.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

No one is saying they have 0% chance of winning in the playoffs, but if the defense doesn't improve significantly, the odds are pretty slim, wouldn't you agree?

This isn't like baseball where every pitcher can throw a good game on any given night, and your best hitters can go a combined 6-40 with 22Ks in a series, causing you to lose in the postseason. In football, it's highly unlikely that a defense as bad as this one can maintain an acceptable level of performance through 3 games, en route to a SuperBowl victory. That's where the concern lies.

Not that they can't, just that they can't against game managing QBs/offenses, that run the clock and play careful (PIT, BAL, NYJ).

They can if they face Rivers, Fitzpatrick, and Schaub who will just chuck it up and maybe get picked, but those three teams have shown they can go in there and rarely turn it over, as well as take a long time off the clock to score.

 

[mcsully]

Belichick the coach is brilliant. But Belichick the general manager has left himself short on talent against the best teams. The Patriots will win a lot more games. But they’re not going to win the important ones. Not until the talent gets better.


Just like what i said in another thread.. BB the GM isn't helping BB the Coach..

BB the coach is the best in the league.. Its not even close.. But BB teh GM is as bad as our secondary

 

[Jangles]

Patriot secondaries . They are plenty talented

these two don't belong together

 

[letekro]

If you think that secondary is "plenty talented", you're either blind or insane.

If you think talent = performance, you are a moron. Did Randall Gay become more talented over the course of 2004? How about Hank Poteat? Did Kyle Arrington become more talented over the summer, because to me he looks like far and away the Pats best corner and he was burnt toast last year. Did Darius Butler become less talented over the summer between 2009 and 2010?

Yesterday, I saw guys that didn't know where to go or how to get there. That's not a talent issue--that's an execution/experience issue and it has something to do with the fact that these guys have not played together all that much as a unit.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you think talent = performance, you are a moron. Did Randall Gay become more talented over the course of 2004? How about Hank Poteat? Did Kyle Arrington become more talented over the summer, because to me he looks like far and away the Pats best corner and he was burnt toast last year. Did Darius Butler become less talented over the summer between 2009 and 2010?

I don't think talent = performance, and I didn't make that claim, so stop trying to change what you said.

Yesterday, I saw guys that didn't know where to go or how to get there. That's not a talent issue--that's an execution/experience issue and it has something to do with the fact that these guys have not played together all that much as a unit.

You saw what happens when incredible lack of talent is supplemented with incredible lack of experience.

 

[letekro]

I don't think talent = performance, and I didn't make that claim, so stop trying to change what you said.



You saw what happens when incredible lack of talent is supplemented with incredible lack of experience.

First of all, I did not change anything that I said. People that make their money evaluating talent rated McCourty, Chung, and Molden highly during the draft evaluation process. Forgive me if I don't give any weight to your conclusory and uninformed statements to the contrary. Second, you ignore my central point--every year we hear about how bad the secondary is (and this goes back to the super bowl years), and every year they are solid to very good by the end of the season. I don't see any evidence of why this season should be any different (although granted they are getting a late start with all of the roster shakeup).

 

[Deus Irae]

First of all, I did not change anything that I said. People that make their money evaluating talent rated McCourty, Chung, and Molden highly during the draft evaluation process. Forgive me if I don't give any weight to your conclusory and uninformed statements to the contrary. Second, you ignore my central point--every year we hear about how bad the secondary is (and this goes back to the super bowl years), and every year they are solid to very good by the end of the season. I don't see any evidence of why this season should be any different (although granted they are getting a late start with all of the roster shakeup).

The bolded part is a deliberate attempt to mislead that tries to focus on an untruth (every year... secondary) as if it's a given, when the issues have been with the defense overall, and not always the same area. The coaching staff has been good enough to cover up for the defensive flaws against lesser teams with lesser coaches. Once the playoffs come around, and the coaching advantage is minimized, the talent is exposed. That's been abundantly clear since 2009.

The current secondary sucks. It's got nowhere near enough talent.


I hope that helps.