Greg Bedard - Spot-on Analysis in this Morning's Globe

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Oh, the Pats can win with the talent at hand. Brady will do his part.

But, they arent winning a Super Bowl any time soon with that pass defense and he pains me to say that. I thought some if not all of the problems were corrected.

When people look at the 2nd half of the 2006 AFCCG vs. Indy, they remember the guys on D dropping like flies and pin a lot of the blame there for that loss.

The current talent the Pats are fielding, particularly in the back 7, is not far from that fateful day almost 5 years ago.

Regards,
Chris

 

[SeymourTrophies]

What's upsetting is that the pass rush is miles better than it has been in a few years. We got pressure with 3 and 4 man rushes at points this game. Been wasn't standing back there unbothered the whole game.The indiscriminate blitzing wasn't doing us any favors, but guys were wide open across the middle.

The coverage...oh, the coverage:bricks: Are we going to send out a search party for Devin McCourty, or is his disappearance more reflective of the safety play?

 

[DaBruinz]

The secondary has been flawed for years. Since 2007 at least.

If NE faces a good passing team like the Colts (2010) Saints (2009) Bills 2011, etc, and Brady has a bad game or is limited in his number of plays, the Pats will likely lose.

Flawed since 2007???

 

[JackBauer]

Are we going to send out a search party for Devin McCourty, or is his disappearance more reflective of the safety play?

Generally speaking, the less you notice a cornerback in coverage, the better. McCourty was not the problem out there yesterday.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Patriots have to go on a spending spree this offseason. Pretty simple.

I'd look at:

WR Vincent Jackson
CB Cortland Finnegan
CB Tracey Porter
S Michael Griffin
LB Steven Tulloch
S Jim Leonhard (at the very least to drive the price up on the Jets)

I agree with either Porter or Finnegan, though I think that Porter would be a better pick for this defense..

The Pats need a D-lineman with some attitude.. They need a LBer and Safety like that as well..

 

[DaBruinz]

Spikes had one good play! I thinks sometimes the Pats fans faithful want something so badly, they make it up. Spikes is horrid. Diggs, bad. Chung, Over-rated. Ninko- bad. Guyton is beyond awful. It's so sad.

Spikes is not horrid.. He's a 2 down linebacker who shouldn't be on the field in passing situations.

Chung isn't over-rated. Ninkovich isn't bad. I'll give you Guyton because he is awful...

 

[Deus Irae]

The coverage...oh, the coverage:bricks: Are we going to send out a search party for Devin McCourty, or is his disappearance more reflective of the safety play?

McCourty's been a weakness this year, but the scheme yesterday protected the CBs at the expense of the linebackers. That's why McCourty wasn't getting his name called much yesterday.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Generally speaking, the less you notice a cornerback in coverage, the better. McCourty was not the problem out there yesterday.

I don't know if I'd agree with this without seeing any game film. It's possible McCourty wasn't the problem because he was getting help?

I think the Patriots game plan on defense was to take away the deep ball by having two safeties helping the outside corners. This left the middle of the field to be covered by Guyton, Spikes, Ninkovich. Miller and Brown dominated the game over the middle. They successfully used Wallace as a decoy.

This is something the Patriots did with great success while Randy Moss was still garnering the respect of double and triple coverage. Welker had tons of room with the intermediate routes because of the heavy attention set on Moss.

People on this forum talk about a deep threat, and they are shot down immediately; but it's a useful strategy. That being said, I think the Patriots do have deep threats, just not at the Moss caliber. Brady missed Price and Ochocinco on deep plays that could have been TDs.

 

[DaBruinz]

Aside from paying homage to Troy Brown and Tom Brady - not many, I suppose. The defense has been putrid for a few years now.

I find it so darn interesting too. I mean, BB is the defensive guru -and give him credit for scheming this rag tag bunch into some red zone efficiency - but how does he wiff on so many defensive personnel? I don't get it.

I didn't realize that defenses that Give up 20 points or less were considered putrid.. Guess everyone on here just learned something..

 

[JackBauer]

I don't know if I'd agree with this without seeing any game film. It's possible McCourty wasn't the problem because he was getting help?

In fairness, that would apply to all but maybe one cornerback in the NFL.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Not sure I saw anything in the DB that he could build off of......inferior players give you inferior play no matter how much you scheme...

Pats will get 10 or 11 wins due to their potent offense...nothing on the defense excites me so far......

JMHO

That is what worries me a bit, as well. The improvement narrative works well when you have young guys with talent who aren't yet performing. Last year, for example, it was pretty easy to point out how Butler, Chung, and McCourty stood to improve quite a bit (and they did).

This year, with Dowling having been IR'ed, what's left? Unless Ihedigbo and Molden suddenly discover that they can play at a much higher level than they ever have, I'm not sure where the improvement comes from.

Chung and Arrington have been good, but I don't see them improving a ton beyond the level that they're currently playing at. I do think that McCourty's improved quite a bit over the past couple of weeks, so that's encouraging. But after that, it looks to me like significant further improvement in the defense will come from the front seven.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you think that it is OK for a Brady offense to score 10 points, then you are welcome to your opinion.

We might as well trade Brady for some running backs and change the offense. If the goal is time of possession and 15 points game, then Brady is the worong quarterback.

This offense is a 25 points a game offense. The production yesterday was pathetic.

MG- what you are over-looking is the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field. So, while the Pats offense only scored 10 points, They didn't capitalize on things either. I mean, they went 3 and out on the 1st drive that started at the Pats 40 because of the Steelers kicking it OOB.

The blocking on kick returns has been horrible. This falls on Scott O'Brien. Other teams seem to have no issue over-lapping pairs to create holes for their returners to get through, why can't the Pats..

I can't fault the Josh Boyer, Matt Patricia, or Patrick Graham for the CBs, Safeties, or LBers because they are 1st year coaches at those positions. And I think that the move of Patricia from the LBers has hurt the Pats, in all honesty.

While I understand that BB likes to develop his coaches from within, I think there is too much inexperience among the defensive coaches behind Pepper Johnson. And that is hurting this team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't know if I'd agree with this without seeing any game film. It's possible McCourty wasn't the problem because he was getting help?

He probably was, but even if so, that's fine. I noticed him providing solid coverage and sure tackling that was reminiscent of some of the high points of his rookie year. If this game had bright spots, they were him and Gronkowski.

People on this forum talk about a deep threat, and they are shot down immediately; but it's a useful strategy. That being said, I think the Patriots do have deep threats, just not at the Moss caliber. Brady missed Price and Ochocinco on deep plays that could have been TDs.

I'm with you on that. Maybe not so much on Ochocinco (I like the guy, but don't see him as a deep threat, and if anything I think yesterday's deep pass to him bore that out), but if Brady hits Price, that's a touchdown. As others have noted, though, throwing an accurate deep ball on the run has never really been a strength of Brady's. There are only a couple of QBs who can do it, so I don't think it's a terrible indictment of him that he isn't one of them. He's by far the best pocket passer in the NFL, so he has to be allowed to have a weakness somewhere in his game

 

[letekro]

The secondary has been flawed for years. Since 2007 at least.

If NE faces a good passing team like the Colts (2010) Saints (2009) Bills 2011, etc, and Brady has a bad game or is limited in his number of plays, the Pats will likely lose.

You could replace "Brady" with any team's quarterback and "Pats" with any team and the same is true. So, I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Deus Irae]

You could replace "Brady" with any team's quarterback and "Pats" with any team and the same is true. So, I'm not sure what your point is.

1.) Your point is not necessarily true.

2.) His point is that the defense is so bad that the team is almost completely dependent upon Brady having all-world games every week.

 

[letekro]

That is what worries me a bit, as well. The improvement narrative works well when you have young guys with talent who aren't yet performing. Last year, for example, it was pretty easy to point out how Butler, Chung, and McCourty stood to improve quite a bit (and they did).

This year, with Dowling having been IR'ed, what's left? Unless Ihedigbo and Molden suddenly discover that they can play at a much higher level than they ever have, I'm not sure where the improvement comes from.

Chung and Arrington have been good, but I don't see them improving a ton beyond the level that they're currently playing at. I do think that McCourty's improved quite a bit over the past couple of weeks, so that's encouraging. But after that, it looks to me like significant further improvement in the defense will come from the front seven.

Wasn't the Antonio Brown touchdown on 3rd down? If Molden doesn't double cover the receiver on the back line and leave Brown open, we hold them to a FG. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that these guys can tighten up the zones a little bit and not leave receivers wide open as the year goes on. This is not a talent issue, and something that should be able to be corrected.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wasn't the Antonio Brown touchdown on 3rd down? If Molden doesn't double cover the receiver on the back line and leave Brown open, we hold them to a FG. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that these guys can tighten up the zones a little bit and not leave receivers wide open as the year goes on. This is not a talent issue, and something that should be able to be corrected.

Yes, it's a talent issue. You can look for excuses on any given play. That doesn't change what happened throughout the game.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Enough, those Patriots teams had an excellent front seven and probowl (plus a borderline HOF Safety).

I am not saying they can't catch lightening is a bottle, ala 2007 Colts but be realistic.

DL - Warren, [Wilfork/ Traylor / Washington], Seymour
LB_ Bruschi, Vrabel, McGinest, Phifer, Johnson
CB - Law, Samuel
S - Harrison, Wilson (before he sucked)

Aside from Wilfork and maybe Mayo no current Patriot would start on the 2003 & 2004 teams.

Not that it derails your general point, but I'm not so sure that McCourty and Haynesworth wouldn't start, and Spikes would have a good shot to displace Ted Johnson in their ideal rotational role.

 

[Deus Irae]

Enough, those Patriots teams had an excellent front seven and probowl (plus a borderline HOF Safety).

I am not saying they can't catch lightening is a bottle, ala 2007 Colts but be realistic.

DL - Warren, [Wilfork/ Traylor / Washington], Seymour
LB_ Bruschi, Vrabel, McGinest, Phifer, Johnson
CB - Law, Samuel
S - Harrison, Wilson (before he sucked)

Aside from Wilfork and maybe Mayo no current Patriot would start on the 2003 & 2004 teams.

McCourty would be the nickel, which is fine.
Mayo wouldn't be a starter, but he'd be a rotational LB

When you break down the 2011 defense, the only player who'd be a starter on the defense you listed is Wilfork, a player who was already a starter on that defense you named.

That, in a nutshell, is why this team is in trouble when it comes to playing top level teams in the playoffs.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wasn't the Antonio Brown touchdown on 3rd down? If Molden doesn't double cover the receiver on the back line and leave Brown open, we hold them to a FG. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that these guys can tighten up the zones a little bit and not leave receivers wide open as the year goes on. This is not a talent issue, and something that should be able to be corrected.

On the play that you're referencing, the two guys who were in position to make a play were Molden and Ihedigbo. Is it possiible that they could raise their level of play? Sure, that could happen. But neither of them is going to come anywhere close to solving the problem- in fact I'd go so far as to say that, when you have a play on the goal line where Molden and Ihedigbo are the two guys in a position to stop a touchdown, that has to be viewed as an indictment of the overall talent that's available.