Dont'a Hightower at DE?

[RayClay]

That's exactly what he is doing, trying to grab one of the remaining spots on the DL, he isz in no way a favorite to win it. If he beats out Tommy Kelly I will be thrilled that he's that good but seriously the guy has produced as much as Mark Harrison, their future starting TE.

There are guys who will be on this team, and there are guys fighting for spots on this team, Armstead is fighting for a spot on the team, he's on the bubble.

We have a different definition of on the bubble. Every possible player we're not sure will make the team isn't "on the bubble" in my view. Let's drop it.

As far as rank ordering unknowns, I don't do it. I simply say "I don't know" until I have information to start making judgments.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes, he says the right things and he's decent in coverage. I am not, however, impressed with his tackling. He doesn't have as long a resume of taking a bad angle as Pat Chung, but he took himself out of plays and made himself look pretty bad a couple times. Folks complained about Gregory in that department all year long in 2013 (based on some pretty ugly plays in 2012), but Harmon took himself out of the play more times in half the playing time. Hopefully, he can turn that around, because he also made way more plays in the passing game than Gregory did in half the playing time.

You'll get no argument out of me there. People have vastly overrated his performance last year. I'm just hoping that was inexperience and getting used to the speed of the game.

 

[Brady6]

You'll get no argument out of me there. People have vastly overrated his performance last year. I'm just hoping that was inexperience and getting used to the speed of the game.

I would not completely preclude Tavon Wilson from the discussion at safety, he was in the doghouse last season, but he actually played more snaps in the playoffs than Harmon (granted it was only 3/2). I know Wilson made some mistakes as a rookie but overall he was the more impactful player as a rookie.

Harmon – 427 snaps played, 31 tackles, 2 interceptions, 4 pass defends
Wilson – 473 snaps played, 41 tackles, 4 interceptions, 2 fumble recoveries, 6 pass defends

Wilson was making the same mistakes repeatedly and Belichick did not like that but if he can rectify those mistakes he could be in the mix, or he could be gone by week one if he does not make the changes needed.

 

[Kontradiction]

I would not completely preclude Tavon Wilson from the discussion at safety, he was in the doghouse last season, but he actually played more snaps in the playoffs than Harmon (granted it was only 3/2). I know Wilson made some mistakes as a rookie but overall he was the more impactful player as a rookie.

Harmon – 427 snaps played, 31 tackles, 2 interceptions, 4 pass defends
Wilson – 473 snaps played, 41 tackles, 4 interceptions, 2 fumble recoveries, 6 pass defends

Wilson was making the same mistakes repeatedly and Belichick did not like that but if he can rectify those mistakes he could be in the mix, or he could be gone by week one if he does not make the changes needed.

I would be surprised if Wilson made it out of TC. He's going to have to show SOMETHING on defense this coming season to justify the 2nd round selection.

 

[Brady6]

I would be surprised if Wilson made it out of TC. He's going to have to show SOMETHING on defense this coming season to justify the 2nd round selection.

I personally do not view Harmon or Wilson as anything more than depth safeties with a ceiling of fringe starter.

This is the best alignment in my opinion -

LCB - Revis
RCB - Browner
Slot CB - Dennard
Dime CB - Arrington
Strong-side SAF - McCourty
Weak-side SAF - Ryan

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I would be surprised if Wilson made it out of TC. He's going to have to show SOMETHING on defense this coming season to justify the 2nd round selection.

I disagree. He can have a productive 10+year career without ever justifying his 2nd round selection. To make it out of TC, he just needs to show that he has more to offer than Ebner or Chung. That's a much lower bar.

 

[Brady6]

Nate Ebner intercepted a pass in OTAs a few days ago. He seems to have impressive ball skills I feel like every camp I read about him intercepting passes.

 

[patchick]

I personally do not view Harmon or Wilson as anything more than depth safeties with a ceiling of fringe starter.

This is the best alignment in my opinion -

LCB - Revis
RCB - Browner
Slot CB - Dennard
Dime CB - Arrington
Strong-side SAF - McCourty
Weak-side SAF - Ryan

I think most agree that's the best-looking alignment, but the first quarter of the season sans Browner muddies the waters a bit. How would you handle it?

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Nate Ebner intercepted a pass in OTAs a few days ago. He seems to have impressive ball skills I feel like every camp I read about him intercepting passes.

He was born to be a binky. Every pre-season he gets the love, but no playing time come the regular season. Maybe he'll climb the learning curve this season and break-out, but I need to spread the love around. Tavon can be my binky this pre-season.

 

[Brady6]

I think most agree that's the best-looking alignment, but the first quarter of the season sans Browner muddies the waters a bit. How would you handle it?

Well first, I will say that I like Dax Swanson to make the roster at least initially. I would probably just run with –

LCB – Revis
RCB – Dennard
Slot CB – Arrington
Strong side SAF – McCourty
Weak side SAF – Ryan

In dime packages you could insert Harmon as a safety and move Ryan or even McCourty to CB.

 

[Brady6]

He was born to be a binky. Every pre-season he gets the love, but no playing time come the regular season. Maybe he'll climb the learning curve this season and break-out, but I need to spread the love around. Tavon can be my binky this pre-season.

I was looking at his pro day numbers and he is just a ridiculous athlete.

Height: 6000
Weight: 202
40 Yard Dash: 4.53
20 Yard Dash: 2.64
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 39
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.04
3-Cone Drill: 6.59

 

[mayoclinic]

I think most agree that's the best-looking alignment, but the first quarter of the season sans Browner muddies the waters a bit. How would you handle it?

It seems premature to tell how things are going to emerge, but I could see several likely possibilities, including:

1. Bump Dennard up to RCB and Arrington up to the slot role, with someone like Jemea Thomas (Terrell Thomas if the Pats pick him up?) emerging as a dime option.

2. Bump Dennard up to RCB and move Logan Ryan to the slot role, with Duron Harmon taking the safety role opposite McCourty.

An interesting "outside of the box" variation might be to use James Anderson as a hybrid LB/S in a Kam Chancellor kind of role. I don't know if he's ever been used that way before, but he was very effective as a coverage LB last year, and he has the savvy to play such a role. It may be crazy, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Anderson ends up being better than whoever is next on the DB depth chart.

Again, it's too early IMO to really tell who will step up and who won't, and what additional moves the Pats may make.

 

[captain stone]

I was looking at his pro day numbers and he is just a ridiculous athlete.

Height: 6000
Weight: 202
40 Yard Dash: 4.53
20 Yard Dash: 2.64
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 39
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.04
3-Cone Drill: 6.59

If Ebner could ever learn the position, he would go a long way toward solving the lack of a physical
presence at SS, something that neither Harmon or Ryan help solve…and the Error Repeater isn't even
in the equation.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

If Ebner could ever learn the position, he would go a long way toward solving the lack of a physical
presence at SS, something that neither Harmon or Ryan help solve…and the Error Repeater isn't even
in the equation.

Leaping to the defense of my boy Tavon, (seeing as I adopted him in a fit of excessively good humor)...

The Error Repeater thing is a bit old. Saint Tedy spake during young Tavon's first season and the faithful repeat the chorus. The kid was put on the back end in his rookie year and got fooled twice. He spent a year doing penance to learn from his mistakes, and I think Bill gives him a chance this year. Things will be much different in the backfield this year. With Revis locking down one side, the Pats be free to play cover 1 against most opponents, and when they do, McCourty would be on the back end. Wilson has the ball skills, size, and tackling ability to play a more traditional strong safety or LB/SS hybrid role, and I think he is the Pats player best suited to that role.

 

[captain stone]

I agree that Wilson is a more physical presence than Harmon & Ryan.

 

[Kontradiction]

Leaping to the defense of my boy Tavon, (seeing as I adopted him in a fit of excessively good humor)...

The Error Repeater thing is a bit old. Saint Tedy spake during young Tavon's first season and the faithful repeat the chorus. The kid was put on the back end in his rookie year and got fooled twice. He spent a year doing penance to learn from his mistakes, and I think Bill gives him a chance this year. Things will be much different in the backfield this year. With Revis locking down one side, the Pats be free to play cover 1 against most opponents, and when they do, McCourty would be on the back end. Wilson has the ball skills, size, and tackling ability to play a more traditional strong safety or LB/SS hybrid role, and I think he is the Pats player best suited to that role.

The majority of Wilson's interceptions have been errant passes thrown right at him when he was playing off in zone or in a Cover-2 shell with no receiver in the vicinity. What gives you the impression that he has ball skills?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Leaping to the defense of my boy Tavon, (seeing as I adopted him in a fit of excessively good humor)...

The Error Repeater thing is a bit old. Saint Tedy spake during young Tavon's first season and the faithful repeat the chorus. The kid was put on the back end in his rookie year and got fooled twice. He spent a year doing penance to learn from his mistakes, and I think Bill gives him a chance this year. Things will be much different in the backfield this year. With Revis locking down one side, the Pats be free to play cover 1 against most opponents, and when they do, McCourty would be on the back end. Wilson has the ball skills, size, and tackling ability to play a more traditional strong safety or LB/SS hybrid role, and I think he is the Pats player best suited to that role.

That is the role for which he was drafted, but has never played, due to concerns elsewhere in the secondary. Those other concerns are largely mitigated now.

 

[Ring 6]

It depends on where the 50 comes from. It is equally distributed through every game, you are right. But if he plays 100% of the snaps in about 60-70% of the games, then he is taken on the field for stretches based on schemes.

Huh?
That makes no sense theoretically, and is not what has ever happened with Mayo.
Mayo has been on the field for every play when he is healthy and when the game is competitive for almost his entire career. He has never been taken off the field for stretches other than injured or game out of reach.
What point are you trying to make? That he misses zero plays due to a short term injury, that every game has been competitive for 60 minutes, and that we have some kind of exotic scheme no one knows about that we use 50 snaps a year and Mayo sucks at it?
Really don't understand your point here.

 

[Ring 6]

That is the role for which he was drafted, but has never played, due to concerns elsewhere in the secondary. Those other concerns are largely mitigated now.

The role he was drafted for was to be a starting safety. You don't draft players in the second round not expecting them to start, yet many second rounders never become effective starters.
Wilson has the skill set they drafted him for. He has yet to adapt to the NFL game. Perhaps he will, perhaps he will not. Barely seeing the field last year is a function of development, not skill level, so he has every opportunity to earn a large role, if he has developed and every opportunity to be sent packing if he has not.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The role he was drafted for was to be a starting safety. You don't draft players in the second round not expecting them to start, yet many second rounders never become effective starters.
Wilson has the skill set they drafted him for. He has yet to adapt to the NFL game. Perhaps he will, perhaps he will not. Barely seeing the field last year is a function of development, not skill level, so he has every opportunity to earn a large role, if he has developed and every opportunity to be sent packing if he has not.

When he was drafted BB was looking for a in the box SS, and a possible Rover/SS/hybrid LB, with a smidgeon more coverage ability than that job description. Then BB was forced by circumstances and had to use him as a deep cover S. Tavon did poorly in that role. He went into the doghouse. He has partially dug himself out and earning a place on the team by good play on ST.

Circumstances are such now, that the job and role for which he was drafted, may be re-opening.