Dont'a Hightower at DE?

[RayClay]

Huh?


The reason he is on the bubble is because because he has never shown anything at this level, and like most players who spend their first year on the IR the likelihood he will turn into a productive player is very questionable. I hope he comes into camp and tears it up and wins a job but as of now he is as much a bubble player as they get.

I consider someone on the bubble when most of the players at his position are locked in and, based on his performance, he is battling with a few marginal players for the last couple spots?

Is this true at this point in time? Wilfork and Kelly's recovery is unknown. Armstead and Easley showed talent outside NFL, but are also questionable health wise. Are the UDFA better or worse than Armstead? Being unknown is not being "on the bubble" IMO. Everyone is unknown relative to everyone else either because of health, or because they've yet to prove to be NFL caliber players.


At linebacker, we look to have three starters and can count down to players on the bubble from there as time goes on. Do we have players who've cemented roles at DT? I don't think so.

 

[Ivan]

I consider someone on the bubble when most of the players at his position are locked in and, based on his performance, he is battling with a few marginal players for the last couple spots?

Is this true at this point in time? Wilfork and Kelly's recovery is unknown. Armstead and Easley showed talent outside NFL, but are also questionable health wise. Are the UDFA better or worse than Armstead? Being unknown is not being "on the bubble" IMO. Everyone is unknown relative to everyone else either because of health, or because they've yet to prove to be NFL caliber players.


At linebacker, we look to have three starters and can count down to players on the bubble from there as time goes on. Do we have players who've cemented roles at DT? I don't think so.

Siliga, Jones, and Vellano are all ahead of Armstead at this point and he is going to have beat out two make the team. He is as bubble as bubble gets.

 

[Kontradiction]

While we're on the topic, this is a pretty good column about Harmon...

http://nesn.com/2014/06/duron-harmon-preparing-like-a-starter-for-patriots-without-job-locked-down/

He's definitely saying all the right things. Hopefully it translates to his on-field performance and he locks down that other starting safety position. I hated how high the pick was, but I am honestly rooting for him.

 

[Brady6]

If Ryan lines up across from McCourty, the New England safeties will be the smallest in the NFL. Let that sink in. Like I said, the coverage will be great but the back end will be a liability against the run. Further, it would be damning of their lightning rod third round selection/massive reach from last year Duron Harmon.

That is actually big misconception, with Ryan paired with McCourty the safety tandem technically is bigger this year than it was last. These are Gregory, Ryan, and McCourty’s combine metrics.

Steve Gregory
Height: 5104
Weight: 185

Devin McCourty
Height: 5106
Weight: 193

Logan Ryan
Height: 5111
Weight: 191

 

[Brady6]

I would rather see Jamie Collins and Michael Buchanan lined up at DE than Hightower personally.

 

[captain stone]

And I would just rather not see Hightower try & fail to chase RBs converting 3rd/long screen passes
into 1st downs.

 

[RayClay]

Siliga, Jones, and Vellano are all ahead of Armstead at this point and he is going to have beat out two make the team. He is as bubble as bubble gets.

Vellano is ahead of him? He's outplayed him so far? Really? What is your assessment of Armstead so far this year?

 

[rdf63]

I can't see Hightower being a full-time DE but could see him rotating to that position for certain defensive schemes. One of the biggest reasons the Pats liked him in the draft is he has the size to play ILB and 4.67 speed to play OLB. The Pats need size at the iLB position and Hightower can take over Spikes position and add some coverage skills as well which Spikes did not have. Collins is a better fit for OLB/DE and can use his highly touted edge rusher skills.

 

[Ivan]

Vellano is ahead of him? He's outplayed him so far? Really? What is your assessment of Armstead so far this year?

My assessment is that Vellano came in and actually contributed to the team, whereas Armstread didn't. If you think the guy who couldn't get on the field is ahead of the guys who did that's up to you, i don't buy it. Armstead has to win the job it doesn't get handed to him. You sound exactly like the Tebowites last year who believed he should get the job because he;'s Tim Tebow, not because he earned it.


I hope Armstead is as good as you guys think, but right now he has shown and done nothing, the others have.

 

[Ivan]

If the standard is that Ray Clay thinks so then you are right, otherwise you aren't.

 

[Ivan]

Vellano is ahead of him? He's outplayed him so far? Really? What is your assessment of Armstead so far this year?

My assessment is that he has not shown anything on the field since coming to New England, what's yours?

Seriously Ray, have you ever even seen this guy play in real time or is it all just You Tube highlights? My guess is the latter if even that, it may just be that you like his name because in truth he has done nothing to deserve a place on this team.

Imo they are going with 5 DT's: Wilfork, Kelly, Easely, Siliga, and Jones are the clear frontrunners for those spots so how you come up with the idea that one of those players is on the bubble and Armstead isn't is beyond me.

 

[supafly]

I think I'd probably agree that none of us should be shocked if Armstead didn't end up making it, despite his (reportedly) high ceiling that we keep hearing about. Luckily for him, he'll finally get his chance to show his stuff on the field.

That said, we're going to all have different opinions on who will make it/who won't, just like any other year. I personally don't see a guy like Vellano making it this year myself, simply due to the improvement in depth/competition + return to health from a couple of guys. He strikes me as a player who filled his role and did what was asked of him to the best of his ability, just like we've seen a hundred times over. If we really have Joe Vellano on our 53 man roster this year, I will be surprised.

 

[mgteich]

I would be disappointed if Vellano makes the 53.

If we really have Joe Vellano on our 53 man roster this year, I will be surprised.

 

[RayClay]

My assessment is that Vellano came in and actually contributed to the team, whereas Armstread didn't. If you think the guy who couldn't get on the field is ahead of the guys who did that's up to you, i don't buy it. Armstead has to win the job it doesn't get handed to him. You sound exactly like the Tebowites last year who believed he should get the job because he;'s Tim Tebow, not because he earned it.


I hope Armstead is as good as you guys think, but right now he has shown and done nothing, the others have.

My assessment is that he has not shown anything on the field since coming to New England, what's yours?

Seriously Ray, have you ever even seen this guy play in real time or is it all just You Tube highlights? My guess is the latter if even that, it may just be that you like his name because in truth he has done nothing to deserve a place on this team.

Imo they are going with 5 DT's: Wilfork, Kelly, Easely, Siliga, and Jones are the clear frontrunners for those spots so how you come up with the idea that one of those players is on the bubble and Armstead isn't is beyond me.

I have absolutely no idea what Armstead can do. With three guys coming back from injury and three UDFAs, Armstead is either the best DT on the team, a total washout, or something in between.

On the bubble to me, means someone is fighting someone else for the last spot. Maybe you have a different definition of the phrase.

I'm not saying what you think I am.

 

[Ivan]

I have absolutely no idea what Armstead can do. With three guys coming back from injury and three UDFAs, Armstead is either the best DT on the team, a total washout, or something in between.

On the bubble to me, means someone is fighting someone else for the last spot. Maybe you have a different definition of the phrase.

I'm not saying what you think I am.

That's exactly what he is doing, trying to grab one of the remaining spots on the DL, he isz in no way a favorite to win it. If he beats out Tommy Kelly I will be thrilled that he's that good but seriously the guy has produced as much as Mark Harrison, their future starting TE.

There are guys who will be on this team, and there are guys fighting for spots on this team, Armstead is fighting for a spot on the team, he's on the bubble.

 

[Ivan]

I would be disappointed if Vellano makes the 53.

So would i as i don't think the upside is there after what I saw last season. I think Siliga and Jones win the last two spots if they don't bring anyone in. If Armstead can beat one out then that's great but he still has to do it.

*The fact that he isn't participating in the OTA's is really starting to put him in Ras I territory. And i am not a Ras I basher, he just couldn't get healthy enough to play.

 

[Ivan]

I think I'd probably agree that none of us should be shocked if Armstead didn't end up making it, despite his (reportedly) high ceiling that we keep hearing about. Luckily for him, he'll finally get his chance to show his stuff in the field.

That said, we're going to all have different opinions on who will make it/who won't, just like any other year. I personally don't see a guy like Vellano making it this year myself, simply due to the improvement in depth/competition + return to health from a couple of guys. He strikes me as a player who filled his role and did what was asked of him to the best of his ability, just like we've seen a hundred times over. If we really have Joe Vellano on our 53 man roster this year, I will be surprised.

Right now i have it as Wilfork, Kelly, Easely, Siliga, Jones. That could change if they sign Williams or if we see more commitment to a faster more penetrating defense, in which case Siliga would be in some trouble. Or they could decide to go with their ten best and use Easely both inside and as part of the DE rotation and say goodbye to Bequette. Wouldn't hurt my feelings any, sorry pissah.

 

[supafly]

So would i as i don't think the upside is there after what I saw last season. I think Siliga and Jones win the last two spots if they don't bring anyone in. If Armstead can beat one out then that's great but he still has to do it.

*The fact that he isn't participating in the OTA's is really starting to put him in Ras I territory. And i am not a Ras I basher, he just couldn't get healthy enough to play.

Jeez...I didn't realize that he wasn't taking place in OTAs. I suppose we'll find out more in mini camp next week (or so). That surprises me a bit. I have no opinion on whether or not he'll make it, but I would have expected him to have been able to go by now.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

While we're on the topic, this is a pretty good column about Harmon...

http://nesn.com/2014/06/duron-harmon-preparing-like-a-starter-for-patriots-without-job-locked-down/

He's definitely saying all the right things. Hopefully it translates to his on-field performance and he locks down that other starting safety position. I hated how high the pick was, but I am honestly rooting for him.

Yes, he says the right things and he's decent in coverage. I am not, however, impressed with his tackling. He doesn't have as long a resume of taking a bad angle as Pat Chung, but he took himself out of plays and made himself look pretty bad a couple times. Folks complained about Gregory in that department all year long in 2013 (based on some pretty ugly plays in 2012), but Harmon took himself out of the play more times in half the playing time. Hopefully, he can turn that around, because he also made way more plays in the passing game than Gregory did in half the playing time.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

You sound exactly like the Tebowites last year who believed he should get the job because he's Tim Tebow, not because he earned it.

Ok, the Tebowite analogy, which a few folks have made this off-season) approaches Godwin's Law territory. Whatever might have been said in the popular press, very few people on this board (especially regulars who stay active during the dark days between the draft and training camp) got blindly behind Tebow. Let's try to put this comparison aside and declare any debate over by default when this analogy is broken out.