Dont'a Hightower at DE?

[Ivan]

How can we say Armstead is on the bubble, when we have no idea what he's ready to do? He could, conceivably, be more ready than any of our DT prospects, with three coming back from injuries and three UDFAs available to anyone.

Armstead has shown the ability to deliver the type of play we're looking for, but his health and readiness are a mystery. On the bubble means a player is known to have a marginal chance and we don't know that about Armstead at all.

Huh?


The reason he is on the bubble is because because he has never shown anything at this level, and like most players who spend their first year on the IR the likelihood he will turn into a productive player is very questionable. I hope he comes into camp and tears it up and wins a job but as of now he is as much a bubble player as they get.

 

[Nunchucks]

Hightower is going to play MLB, that is pretty far from DE. Mayo will make the calls from his WLB spot.

 

[Brady6]

Perhaps, Ninkovich can play less on 1st down. I agree that we should not be sitting him in sub package.

BTW, we are demonstrating how important it was to add a quality linebacker. Adding Anderson helps the entire front seven. Obviously, adding Easley and Smith also helped.

DE: Ninkovich, Jones, Smith, Buchanan
DT: Wilfork, Kelly, Siliga, Jones
DE/DT: Easley
DE/LB: Hightower
LB: Mayo, Collins, Anderson, Beauharnais
15th front 7 player: most likely a LB or a LB/STer, or could be a 10th DL (especially with an injury)

Armstead may be valuable enough to keep, or not. He would need to be more valuable than one of the players above AND be more valuable than Vellano, Forston, Moore, Bequette, Fleming, Hull, White, Davis and the UDFA linebackers. IMHO, this is a tall order if everyone is healthy.

I like the idea of going with a heavier base set, with a rotation like this –

LE-Armstead/Easley
NT-Wilfork/Siliga
DT-Kelly/Wilfork
RE-Jones/Ninkovich
SLB-Hightower/Ninkovich
MLB-Mayo/Hightower
WLB-Collins/Mayo

 

[AzPatsFan]

Not necessarily. If you have a bigger SS type that can both cover and come up to take on the run, you're not in trouble if the RB breaches your front seven. The Pats don't have that and it's the reason why so many of us were pounding the table for guys like KPL or Exum.

SS with coverage ability are as rare as chicken lips. With the new hitting rules, to accompany the 2004 impeding rules, they are going extinct. The best you can hope for is a sizeable CB with both a corner's coverage ability, and no aversion to tackling, who you can shift to S. I am unimpressed with Exum and KPL is a undersized 'coverage LB' with a LBers coverage ability, that doesn't match virtually any competent Safeties coverage ability.

Ryan when drafted, was projected as a CB/S from the get go, by many teams. He is an acceptable size for a S too, but not as big as you would like obviously. Stopping the run is an issue more for the DL and LBs. Safety tackling is becoming a last line of Defense type of thing.

The play of Wilfork, Siliga and Hightower are much more important to controlling the opponent's Rushing game.

 

[Brady6]

And Mayo is not great in coverage. He improved incredibly last year from previous years, but he was just average to above average. There will be times where you are going to want to go with a light and fast LBing corp on sub packages. You don't want Mayo being covering a quick slot receiver or a move TE all that much. You can get Anderson to cover them though.

Jerod Mayo had a 67.8 QB rating against and allowing completions just 51.85% of the time prior to his injury last season. Personally, I am not taking Mayo off the field.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Go with position flexibility, what do we see our defensive personnel as being able to play? And, then what type of formations can they morph into 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 3-3-5

Name - Main Position : Flex position
Ninkovich - DE
Chandler Jones - DE : DT, OLB
Smith - DE
Buchanan - DE
Wilfork - DT : DE

Kelly - DT
Siliga - DT
Chris Jones - DT
Easley - DE : DT

Hightower - LB : DE
Mayo - ILB : OLB
Collins - ILB, OLB : TE-Coverage
Anderson - LB
Beauharnais - LB

McCourty - S : CB
Arrington CB (Slot : WR)
Revis - CB
Ryan - CB
Dennard - CB

 

[Marqui]

It is doubtful Mayo will play 100% of the plays. He never has. And depending on the opponent, virtually anyone can see their role minimized at least a bit except maybe Revis.

Mayo sat 50 plays in 2012. Not a huge amount, but that was when the Pats were painfully thin at LB. I could see that increase to 75-100 with more depth at LB for at least sub packages.

Mayo isn't going to sit for long stretches, but he could easily be taken out of the gameplan quite a bit for a single game if the Pats are facing a small fast offense that demands a lot more coverage by the LBers.

What fantasy world are you living in? Mayo played 100% of the defensive snaps before he got hurt last year. And he played 95.9% in 2012 and 96.8% in 2010. When he's healthy he never comes off the field except for blowouts when all the starters are taken out. He's not going to be taken out for any gameplan, he never has.

 

[Rob0729]

Jerod Mayo had a 67.8 QB rating against and allowing completions just 51.85% of the time prior to his injury last season. Personally, I am not taking Mayo off the field.

Again, he could very well come off for a decent stretch depending on the opponent. I am not saying they are going to bench the guy. But he will also benefit if he has a solid back up who can take reps away from him at times to keep him fresh all year long. Even with a stud player, you have him play 98% + snaps a game all year, you risk burnout in the playoffs.

Back in the day, Belichick had no problem resting studs like Law, McGinest, and Harrison when he had solid back ups. If this defense is truly going to go into more of an attack defense, you need to rotate your front seven a lot more than a read and react defense. You look at Seattle and they are rotating players all the time even the studs.

 

[Ivan]

Hightower is going to play MLB, that is pretty far from DE. Mayo will make the calls from his WLB spot.

I am going to be really curious to see what the linebacker alignment ends up being because I have it the opposite of what you just laid out. I have it as Collins the WILL, Mayo the MIKE, and Hightower the SAM. We will see?

 

[Kontradiction]

SS with coverage ability are as rare as chicken lips. With the new hitting rules, to accompany the 2004 impeding rules, they are going extinct. The best you can hope for is a sizeable CB with both a corner's coverage ability, and no aversion to tackling, who you can shift to S. I am unimpressed with Exum and KPL is a undersized 'coverage LB' with a LBers coverage ability, that doesn't match virtually any competent Safeties coverage ability.

Ryan when drafted, was projected as a CB/S from the get go, by many teams. He is an acceptable size for a S too, but not as big as you would like obviously. Stopping the run is an issue more for the DL and LBs. Safety tackling is becoming a last line of Defense type of thing.

The play of Wilfork, Siliga and Hightower are much more important to controlling the opponent's Rushing game.

If Ryan lines up across from McCourty, the New England safeties will be the smallest in the NFL. Let that sink in. Like I said, the coverage will be great but the back end will be a liability against the run. Further, it would be damning of their lightning rod third round selection/massive reach from last year Duron Harmon.

 

[Sciz]

Further, it would be damning of their lightning rod third round selection/massive reach from last year Duron Harmon.

All it would tell us is that Ryan was deemed a better option than Harmon. If Ryan were to excel at safety, then it'd tell us pretty much nothing at all. There's nothing saying that Harmon has to suck just because Ryan is better.

 

[Kontradiction]

All it would tell us is that Ryan was deemed a better option than Harmon. If Ryan were to excel at safety, then it'd tell us pretty much nothing at all. There's nothing saying that Harmon has to suck just because Ryan is better.

Ryan was drafted as a CB. Harmon as a safety. If Ryan leapfrogs him in year two, it's because Harmon wasn't good enough to start. For a guy that probably could have been had in the sixth (and if he wasn't available then, it wouldn't have necessarily destroyed the draft) and yet was drafted high, that's damning. And I do think that Ryan would be a better option back there. He has a real nose for the ball. My concern lies with that safety duo against the run.

 

[AzPatsFan]

If Ryan lines up across from McCourty, the New England safeties will be the smallest in the NFL. Let that sink in. Like I said, the coverage will be great but the back end will be a liability against the run. Further, it would be damning of their lightning rod third round selection/massive reach from last year Duron Harmon.

But the Safeties would be bigger and more athletic than in 2013. You need more then a single starter, when rebuilding.

Harmon is looking pretty good, IMHO. I thought you reserved that particular sobriquet for Tavon Wilson. I haven't given up on Wilson either, with the expected improvements in the CBs, shrinking the effective area of Safety responsibility. He was drafted as a rover/SS/hybrid-LB and then asked to play FS. This seasons Safety corps is superior to the 2012 or 2013 editions, by a significant amount. They all have some experience, youth, size, and speed. How bad can the group be, when a former prime starter is designated as a reserve?

You seem ornery and disputative lately. How come?

 

[Marqui]

Not necessarily. If you have a bigger SS type that can both cover and come up to take on the run, you're not in trouble if the RB breaches your front seven. The Pats don't have that and it's the reason why so many of us were pounding the table for guys like KPL or Exum.

Yes you are. Behind the LB level is already 5 yards down the field, which is a big failure for your run D. Your defense is terrible if you're giving up 5+ yards a carry on any sort of regular basis.

 

[Ring 6]

It is doubtful Mayo will play 100% of the plays. He never has. And depending on the opponent, virtually anyone can see their role minimized at least a bit except maybe Revis.

Mayo sat 50 plays in 2012. Not a huge amount, but that was when the Pats were painfully thin at LB. I could see that increase to 75-100 with more depth at LB for at least sub packages.

Mayo isn't going to sit for long stretches, but he could easily be taken out of the gameplan quite a bit for a single game if the Pats are facing a small fast offense that demands a lot more coverage by the LBers.

Missing 50 plays is essentially playing 100%. Between a play or 2 off for injury, and mop up duty with a big lead when the scrubs are in, 50 plays is nothing.
Mayo never comes off the field when he is healthy and the game is still competitive.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Ryan was drafted as a CB. Harmon as a safety. If Ryan leapfrogs him in year two, it's because Harmon wasn't good enough to start. For a guy that probably could have been had in the sixth (and if he wasn't available then, it wouldn't have necessarily destroyed the draft) and yet was drafted high, that's damning. And I do think that Ryan would be a better option back there. He has a real nose for the ball. My concern lies with that safety duo against the run.

Many teams were projecting him as a CB/Safety.

 

[Ring 6]

If an RB got past your Dline with Olinmen in front of him, your run D already got ran over.

I would estimate that there was less than 2 plays in the NFL last year where a RB was heading toward a safety with an OL in front of him and the safety made the tackle.
Our safeties can tackle. Whether they are 220 or 205 is irrelevant.

 

[Rob0729]

Missing 50 plays is essentially playing 100%. Between a play or 2 off for injury, and mop up duty with a big lead when the scrubs are in, 50 plays is nothing.
Mayo never comes off the field when he is healthy and the game is still competitive.

It depends on where the 50 comes from. It is equally distributed through every game, you are right. But if he plays 100% of the snaps in about 60-70% of the games, then he is taken on the field for stretches based on schemes.

 

[Kontradiction]

But the Safeties would be bigger and more athletic than in 2013. You need more then a single starter, when rebuilding.

Bigger maybe. More athletic, probably. But you need more than that to be a solid all around safety. For instance, Chung is more athletic than Gregory was but was a worse safety overall than Gregory, who wasn't very good in his own right. I have no issues with Ryan at safety from a pass defense perspective. I've made that clear. But, against the run, he's not ideal. If they're going to play him there, hopefully they have someone they can rotate in when it's an obvious run down.

Harmon is looking pretty good, IMHO. I thought you reserved that particular sobriquet for Tavon Wilson. I haven't given up on Wilson either, with the expected improvements in the CBs, shrinking the effective area of Safety responsibility. He was drafted as a rover/SS/hybrid-LB and then asked to play FS. This seasons Safety corps is superior to the 2012 or 2013 editions, by a significant amount. They all have some experience, youth, size, and speed. How bad can the group be, when a former prime starter is designated as a reserve?

I think those that defended the Harmon pick last year are manifesting things when it comes to his play. I didn't think he looked pretty good, myself. I thought he had his up and down moments (I praised his first snaps taken in the first Jets game, for example) but thought it was obvious he had a ways to go. For instance, people were worshipping Keyed's analysis of him when Keyed was also incorrect in his analysis. Harmon gave up a touchdown to Tamme in the regular season game against the Broncos. Either way, I will say that, coverage-wise, the safety tandem is probably better than the 2012 and 2013 editions. My concerns are their size and how they will hold up against the run. I also have a bit of a concern in their ability to cover taller TE's down the seam but am hoping that Collins and Anderson will make those concerns moot.

You seem ornery and disputative lately. How come?

Grey hairs are beginning to spring up and I'm 27 years old.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes you are. Behind the LB level is already 5 yards down the field, which is a big failure for your run D. Your defense is terrible if you're giving up 5+ yards a carry on any sort of regular basis.

You're moving the goalposts now. I never mentioned their run defense talking specifically about yards per carry. My concern is and has been centered around their ability to take on the run if the runner breaks through the LOS and gets behind the LB's. Ideally, I'd like Ryan to be competing with Arrington or Dennard as the dimeback or nickelback, respectively. That said, if Ryan is lining up across from McCourty, it should make for one of the best secondaries against the pass in the NFL. That's a lot of range and ball skill at the safety position.